Civil War Legend of Van Dorn vs Grant | Road Trip to Middle Tennessee 1863 - Talk With History

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in the spring of 1863, Middle Tennessee was a powder keg.

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Leading the Confederate cavalry defense was Major General Earl Van

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Dorn, a brilliant, aristocratic West Point graduate who, alongside Nathan

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Bedford Forrest, formed one of the most lethal military duos in the Civil War.

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But Van Dorn was a man chased by his own demons, and on May 7th of that year,

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his war didn't end on a battlefield, but at a writing desk in Spring Hill,

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Tennessee, shot through the back of the head by a vengeful local doctor.

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It's a story of ego, war, and a scandalous affair that shook the

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region, and it's finally being brought to the silver screen in the new

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feature film, The Legend of Van Dorn.

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What makes this movie production truly incredible is that it wasn't

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shot on a Hollywood backlot.

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The cast and crew embedded themselves in the actual history, filming at historic

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landmarks like Elma Springs, Rattle and Snap Plantation, and on the very

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battlefields where these men fought.

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Now today, we are sitting down with two of the phenomenal actors

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bringing these larger than life historical figures to life.

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Screenwriter and lead actor Lee Wilson, who steps into the boots

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of General Van Dorn, and David B. Meadows, who captures the fierce

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intensity of General Nathan Bedford Forrest, a very famous name in history.

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diving into the weight of acting on sacred historic ground, the physical

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reality of cavalry training, and what it takes to look past the myths and

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find the humans behind the history.

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Lee, David, welcome to Talk With History.

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Thank you.

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It is

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here

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wonderful to be here.

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Thank you for having us

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Guess again

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for our audience, this is a unique opportunity for us.

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So thank you so much, gentlemen, for, for talking with us today

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and, and talking to our audience.

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I think this is kind of a perfect opportunity.

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We actually spoke with, We were at the Gettysburg Film Festival not too long

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ago and spoke with a couple other folks making a Gettysburg, a kinda era movie.

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So this, this is perfect.

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And now when I had looked up who Van Dorn was, a lot of people know

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Nath- Nathan Bedford Forrest, right?

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For better or for worse, right?

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They, they kinda know some aspects of Nathan Bedford Forrest.

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But General Van Dorn, didn't think was really as well known.

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So Lee, can you … Now you wrote this, I believe.

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Can you tell me a little bit about you discovered General Van Dorn and, and what

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led you to, to writing this about him?

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Well, how it happened was I lived in Spring Hill for more than 10 years,

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and someone actually reached out to me.

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Um, it was my my agent actually said, "Someone has asked if they can call you

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and talk to you about this play." And I hadn't done theater, you know, since

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high school or college, and I wasn't really that interested, but I took the

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call, and this person was calling on behalf of, of a director who had been

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directing this play in Spring Hill.

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And she said, "Would you just please meet with the director and

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just kinda see what she has to say?

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It is a paying job." And, and I said, "Why, why me exactly?" And she said,

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"Just wait until you talk to the director." So I, I go into this coffee

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shop to meet the director, and she is a woman looking to be in her 60s.

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And as, as I walk in the door, she does like this.

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And, um, what, what is… You know, what is going on here?

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And I, I just kinda sit down and, and she's… I notice she's got tears in

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her eyes, and it's hard for her to actually speak, and she says, "You

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look just like him." And I said, "I do, I do?" And she said, "Yeah."

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And she said, "Did you look him up?"

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I said, "Yeah, but he didn't have blonde hair." And she said, "That's because

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you're seeing the black and white." She said, "He had blonde hair and blue eyes."

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Yeah

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And so we talked, and she s- she gave me all these books to read, and she actually

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grew up learning to fence, to sword fight.

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Her dad was a, a very sought-after teacher of sword fighting, and one of the people

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who he taught her to revere as a child learning to sword fight was General

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Earl Van Dorn, who was considered one of the best sword fighters in the world.

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Yeah

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so she wanted me to be in this play, and she said, "You will learn proper

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technique of sword fight." I mean, this, this woman she's a wonderful woman.

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Dr. Dionne Collins is her name, and she actually got a, a special thanks

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in the, uh, credits of our film.

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But she offered me the role to be that part, and that's when I started learning

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about Earl Van Dorn and her love and almost obsession for Earl Van Dorn.

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And so I learned the story through this play, and I started reading

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more about him, and so that's how I got introduced to him.

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. i'll go to David next.

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You know, David, you know we kinda know Lee came into the role

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of, of General Van Dorn, right?

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Doesn't, doesn't hurt that you look, you know, like, like you're, you're

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the spitting image of this historical, larger than life historical figure.

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But David, for someone like Nathan Bedford Forrest, when that was brought

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to you, I mean, there is a lot of, there's a lot of history- … behind

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that name of Nathan Bedford Forrest.

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So, so talk us through that.

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Like, what was your- Yeah … first thought, and then as you kinda got into

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playing this role and started working with Lee, can you, can you kinda tell us

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a little bit about, about that transition of when someone said, "Hey, I want you to

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play Nathan Bedford Fo- Forrest," which again, there's, there's a lot behind that.

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Yeah.

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You know, it's, it's very interesting because Lee and I have been friends

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for several years now, but we met under completely different circumstances

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with, you know, with his other business and everything like that.

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And so when he came to me with this movie idea, I was, I was really

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kind of like taken from the side.

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I was like, "Wait, what?" Y- you know, it was… I had no idea that he was

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interested in acting or producing or, you know, much less that he

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had written this movie or was such a historian or anything like that.

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then when he sent it out, I, I'll admit, I actually didn't know that

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much about Nathan Bedford Forrest.

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I recognize the name, of course, but I, I don't consider myself a, a history buff,

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and especially of the Civil War era.

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so when he first came to me about it, it was one of the things where I

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was kind of like, "Ah, you know, I'm not sure." It's, you know, it wasn't

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overarching passion or anything like that that I'd always wanted to do.

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So then, of course, I, I delve into it, I read the script, and I

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look into it, immediately General, General Forrest is just completely

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ripped all the way through history.

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A very, very, very polarizing figure.

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so at first, I had a lot of reservations about it.

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It was one of the things I try to keep my work in particular as an actor, you

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know, separate from i-i-- sometimes from political or religious things or whatever.

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I, I try to keep it i-i-in, in, in different verticals.

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then the more that I read about it and the more that Lee talked to me about it,

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I really started getting excited about it.

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And then the more people started reaching out to me about the prospect

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of it, because there's such a massive reenactment community of

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people that are just passionate and knowledgeable about this entire source.

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And when Lee started introducing me to a lot of the guys there, and I started

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hearing their stories and their sides and their takes on this, and the more

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I started reading General Forrest's biography and all of his true history, and

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a lot of the things that the man said and did and all these sorts of things, I was

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like, "Dude, this, th-this dude badass."

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yeah

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amazing.

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I mean, some of the real-life stories that would rival anything that happened in

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a, i-in some Hollywood action movie, you know, that were going on through there.

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so then I really started getting compelled, not to get too far into

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the acting on it, about figuring out the man underneath the legends, right?

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And really trying to delve into that sort of a thing because… A-and, and

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challenging it away from the archetype or the stereotype of what we may

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think and do, but really getting to what sort of a man does things like

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this and believes things like this.

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And so at that point in time, I was hooked

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Yeah.

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Very cool.

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Yeah.

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That's, that's awesome.

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So I, you know, gentlemen, I, I agree with you both.

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We moved here to Memphis from California, and the, the, the statue here was

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of Nathan Bedford Forrest, right?

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The statue in Memphis.

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And I was like, "Who?" And I g- I, I grew up in Pennsylvania.

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I got my education there.

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When we learned Civil War, it's a little Grant, it's a little Lee.

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You may learn Gettysburg.

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That's it.

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And so when I got here and everyone's talking about this statue, and I'm like,

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"Wh- who is it?" That, that's our very first video we make for Walk with History.

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Who is Nathan Bedford Forrest?

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Why is his statue here?

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Why is it controversial?

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But if you saw Forrest Gump, they kinda touch on him real fast.

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Yeah.

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And that's where I think most people's recollection of the name would be,

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unless you grew up in this area.

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And like you said, David, he's very… You have to really study him to know

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the truth about everything, because he can be very pushed into these

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stereotypes, and people can just believe that is his whole story, unless you

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really read everything about him.

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And a- again, as historians, that's what we, we do.

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We make sure all the sources are out there.

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But Van Doren is even more obscure.

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Like, I would say, would… I didn't even know him until I

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had to study about this movie.

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So people who know Van Doren, which, awesome name, by the way.

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It's… You know, I love the name.

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But, but it was like I had to kinda look more into him.

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He's one of those people, again, unless you are this area, it's

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not a name you would recognize.

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So I like that you're bringing these stories to life that are here and are

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real and for people to learn more about.

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Yeah.

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N- now, Lee, one of the, one of the things- Okay

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That, that I, I read up on was that you did a lot of the filming in that,

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the, like some of the actual area.

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Can you, can you talk about some of the locations that you filmed at?

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'Cause I know, you know, we had talked, like I mentioned earlier when we were

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at, up at, in Gettysburg, you know, some of the actors that film up there

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love being on the actual battlefield.

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Can you talk about that?

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Yeah, the producer I mean, there were eight producers.

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As you know, you know, with, um, big films there, there are lots of producers.

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But the first producer, the main producer, Brad Wilson, he, um, was

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pretty passionate about filming on and near where it happened because even now

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I live fairly close to Spring Hill, and in Columbia and some of the area where

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we filmed, there were actual fields that have been left untouched other than, you

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know, k- pasture fencing that were…

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There were skirmishes, there were parts of battles there.

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And so a couple of the battles, that we filmed, we were actually on battlefield.

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This happened, which was quite a spooky thing, especially when I

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learned something about reenactors, and that is that there are three types,

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and I'm, I hope I get this right.

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There are

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Contemporary, I think is what they're called.

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Th- then there are I may get the names wrong.

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There are contemporary, I think there are realistic, and then there are purist.

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Ah.

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Okay

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And when we were working with, uh, a gentleman, um, Dr. Kevin Gray, who's

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connected to thousands of reenactors, we didn't realize it at the time,

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but we had history consultants who were terrific, and I know we'll,

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we'll be talking about them some.

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But the reenactors that we ended up having the vast majority of were purist.

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And they're on this battlefield, they are in exact attire

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down to even their underwear.

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Yeah.

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Mm-hmm.

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in, in tents with, that were made of the exact same material.

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And so one of the funniest things was that during filming, the director,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:16</time>
Shane Stanley, I mean a famous director, he's had two world number

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:19</time>
ones, he holds the record for the longest number one in history in film.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:23</time>
He's, uh, royalty.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:25</time>
He's on set and he's telling these reenactors, "I need everyone to move about

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:28</time>
five steps to the right." They do nothing.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:31</time>
He says it again.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:32</time>
They do nothing.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:34</time>
He looks at, uh, Joel, who is, um, director of cinematography.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:38</time>
He says, "What's going on here?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:39</time>
Are they deaf?" And so finally, one of the historians says, "Oh, they won't

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:43</time>
listen to you because you don't exist.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:46</time>
Look at how you're dressed." And he said, "Well, who will they listen to?"

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:49</time>
And all three looked at me, 'cause I'm in this full general's uniform.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:52</time>
sure.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:53</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:54</time>
And so Sha- so Shane said, "Okay, I want you to try something." He said, "Tell

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:58</time>
these guys to move five steps left or five steps right," whatever it was, and I, I

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:01</time>
pointed and I said, "Five steps this way."

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:04</time>
They all did it.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:05</time>
And so it was pretty addictive because I'd come onto set and there would be 100 guys

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:10</time>
at s- full salute, you know, jumping to their feet 'cause here's General Van Dorn.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:14</time>
And, and they, uh… it was a fun experience for that reason, but we were

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:18</time>
able to use people who were dressed exactly as they would've been dressed on

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:22</time>
the fields where it actually happened.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:24</time>
And I was dressed, and so was David.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:26</time>
We… everything was authentic.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:28</time>
It was an experience

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:29</time>
Uh, that's super cool.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:30</time>
So let me ask you when it came to then recreating your look,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:35</time>
like you said, do you have real source material to pull from?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:38</time>
Like, is there Van Dorn garments that are still in a museum somewhere that

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:41</time>
you could look at and, like, make sure you were matching up, like, his… what

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:45</time>
he looked like and what he was wearing?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:47</time>
Well, we had lots of pictures,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:49</time>
Okay

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:51</time>
those were very helpful.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:52</time>
And that's pretty much w- uh, our… We were actually incredibly fortunate to have

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:58</time>
as, um, our, our costume supervisor and his staff, he was a Civil War enthusiast,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:06</time>
and he was also a re-enactor, and he was a professional costumer wardrobe guy.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:11</time>
So he, I mean, we had incredible expertise.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:13</time>
And so he actually, the outfits he picked out for me were, he said, "I've got

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:18</time>
General Van Dorn right here in Mississippi when they gave him his award sword after

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:21</time>
he had defeated the Comanche twice.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:23</time>
He was considered the greatest military mind in the country.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:26</time>
Here he is in this uniform.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:27</time>
You have it on right now."

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:28</time>
I mean, he was down to incredible detail.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:32</time>
And we even, there were several times, and I'm sure David remembers this,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:35</time>
they would stop filming because one of the historians said, "That's not

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:38</time>
right." And they'd come over, and they'd bring their n- their, their needle

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:41</time>
and thread, and they'd get it right.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:42</time>
We were, we were very much in good hands with that, and they were

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:46</time>
committed to, to authenticity.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:48</time>
It was, uh, terrific

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:50</time>
It w- it, it's, it's not like the, the John Wayne days where- Yeah … where

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:54</time>
they're just like, "Ah, we'll put something on that looks good on John

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:57</time>
Wayne, and we'll just worry about it afterwards." And he's cavalry for

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:01</time>
Yeah

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:01</time>
it, it's…

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:02</time>
Civil War.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:02</time>
know, who, who Lee's talking about is, you know, our costume designer,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:05</time>
Christian Michael, there was legitimately a single time where I remember

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:09</time>
where he was developing one of my one of my vests that I was wearing.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:14</time>
He was going nuts trying to find a- a- and basically comparing and

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:20</time>
contrasting different pictures and perusing every forum, every article

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:25</time>
that he could find about a button.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:28</time>
Wow

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:29</time>
What was the button made out of?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:30</time>
What was the actual logo?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:33</time>
Because there were

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:33</time>
Mm-hmm.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:34</time>
he would even go, he's like, "Well, you know, there's a misaccount that this was

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:37</time>
on the button, but in fact, they stopped using that in this year, and our war's

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:40</time>
taking place two years later." I mean, he got to that level of detail, you know,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:44</time>
on making sure that not only was it used, but it was used in the exact timeframe

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:50</time>
that we were actually there, you know?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:51</time>
And, oh, they could no longer… You know what?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:53</time>
They would have to replace buttons and, you know, when they would replace them

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:55</time>
because there was a shortage of materials, they couldn't use the original materials

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:59</time>
and, and the forge was broken, you know, that the original button, so they had

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:02</time>
to go to this model and everything.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:04</time>
Dude

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:05</time>
That's awesome That, that, that's absolutely amazing.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:07</time>
Now, David, as, you know, someone who's playing f- you know, Nathan Bedford

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:12</time>
Forrest, he, kind of one of the things in, in, we joke here all, all the

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:16</time>
time, so my wife is the historian.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:18</time>
She's the smart one.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:19</time>
I, I'm, I'm the guy behind the scenes typically.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:22</time>
I…

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:22</time>
Thank you guys for your service,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:23</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:23</time>
Oh, thank you.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:23</time>
Oh, yeah, yeah,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:24</time>
Absolutely

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:25</time>
Our honor to serve our country.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:26</time>
Yeah, but so, so I'm, I'm the guy who, who kinda likes to do

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:29</time>
the, do the production side.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:30</time>
But one of the things that I have learned as I've done kinda all this history stuff

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:35</time>
with, with Jenn, is that, you know, when you go to Civil War battlefields and you

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:38</time>
read any account about Nathan Bedford Forrest, is like that guy was a rider.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:42</time>
Like, he, he was a cavalry, cavalryman through and through, and I, from

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:46</time>
what I read, Van Dorn was as well.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:48</time>
So David, did you have to, you have to learn how to ride?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:52</time>
Like, was, was there a lot of- … a lot of training that went into that?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:55</time>
Because some of the stories I read about Nathan Bedford Forrest that I

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:58</time>
remember is, like, him just, like, tearing through battlefields and

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:01</time>
picking guys up and all, on a horse

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:05</time>
So, you know, really funny story about that, Scott.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:07</time>
Yes.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:08</time>
So I grew up in West Virginia, and I did a little bit of riding and things like that.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:11</time>
And then, you know, back in a previous career and all that, I, I did riding

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:15</time>
and stuff like that, but not to this

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:17</time>
Right

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:17</time>
definitely not a stunt rider, right?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:20</time>
we had these incredible Ron and Jason, who were…

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:23</time>
not only are they fantastic cowboys themselves, but they have a tremendous

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:28</time>
gift for teaching other people to ride.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:30</time>
But then, of course, I show up, and Ron, the the head wrangler, you know,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:34</time>
is just going, "Yeah, dude. Well, Dave, you know, I'm gonna give you the meanest

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:40</time>
horse that we have." I'm not kidding.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:41</time>
Named Blue.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:42</time>
He's like, "And she's just, she's just mean," right?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:45</time>
The whole time, because that would be General Forrest's

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:47</time>
Yeah

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:48</time>
you just, you're not gonna have a benign

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:50</time>
Yep

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:50</time>
the meanest one that's running around there, and you're going to h-

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:53</time>
And, and it was actually brilliant

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:58</time>
you know, I did a lot of riding on Blue, and she's biting me and, you

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:01</time>
know, all this other sort of stuff.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:02</time>
And so we had this long period, several weeks before we actually

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:05</time>
commenced filming, where I would just be riding every day or every other

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:08</time>
day, and we're just going on, you know, continuous levels of complexity.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:12</time>
And the crazy thing was I developed this relationship and this push-pull love-hate

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:17</time>
with Blue, and you can see it on camera

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:21</time>
Have fun

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:22</time>
because she doesn't take my shit at all.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:25</time>
Like, she's just sitting there just constantly doing this thing.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:28</time>
So what it made me do is actually have an energy and a control and

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:32</time>
an aggression even to the horse, and you can see it in the scenes.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:36</time>
I'm sitting there, it's not just on some benign horse and

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:39</time>
doing the scene or whatever.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:40</time>
There's an aggression that… So it made it very e-easy to, for me to capture

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:46</time>
an energy for General Forrest of always being the aggressor in everything I did.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:53</time>
No matter whether I was talking to somebody, I'm fighting, I'm riding my

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:56</time>
horse, I'm just walking in the room.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:58</time>
Like I just, bah!

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:59</time>
You know, it's

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:00</time>
Yeah

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:01</time>
that I always would come in with.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:03</time>
And so having Blue in that thing was just another… There was nothing passive

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:07</time>
ever about playing Nathan Bedford Forrest

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:10</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:10</time>
Now, now Lee, how about you?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:12</time>
How, how was the… 'Cause again, another thing that I'm learning about Van Doren

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:16</time>
as I'm reading about this was him and Forrest, that's kind of where they, they,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:21</time>
they kind of met on this, on the s- on the same, the same f- same plane, right?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:26</time>
Now they, they had some

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:26</time>
All right

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:27</time>
the two of them, but, you know, Van Doren was a writer as well, and a very good one

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:32</time>
Yes, and a, an incredible horse trainer as well.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:34</time>
And, you know, right before he beat Ulysses S. Grant, you know, the

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:40</time>
only… He was the only one that did.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:41</time>
Mm-hmm

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:42</time>
he had lost two battles as, uh, an infantry general.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:47</time>
Now, one of them, General Bragg took half their guys because he thought it was over,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:51</time>
and left Van Dorn with half their force.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:53</time>
And at that point, Van Dorn realized, "I've just gotta try to save our guys',

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:57</time>
you know, our lives right now." And so that was considered a loss, but most

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:00</time>
people don't blame Van Dorn for that.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:03</time>
But he was an incredible horseman, and when he got… When they basically said,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:07</time>
"Look, you're undefeated as a cavalry officer, so we have something we want

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:12</time>
you to do," and Van Dorn w- wanted to do it, and it was take on Ulysses.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:15</time>
was one man he, he wanted to help him, and it was Bedford, because he considered

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:21</time>
him his e- equal in terms of cavalry.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:24</time>
And so that comes out in, in, in the movie.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:27</time>
But I had to go through almost two months of horse training

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:31</time>
because, you know, you have to look like you know what you're doing.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:34</time>
And I had a, a horse that was identical to the one that the people of San Antonio

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:40</time>
gave General Van Dorn after he defeated the Comanche twice and saved the Cherokee

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:44</time>
from basically from annihilation.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:46</time>
The people of San Antonio gave him this horse, and he named

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:48</time>
it San Antonio, coincidentally.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:51</time>
Sure

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:52</time>
so they ha- they had matched that.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:54</time>
And- That horse, number one, it was huge.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:58</time>
It bucked me off.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:59</time>
The first time in my life I've been bucked off a horse.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:01</time>
oh

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:02</time>
I went up in the air, landed on my back, and Ron Ron came over and got

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:07</time>
control of the horse and, and he handed it to Dayson and he, they, you know,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:10</time>
they're checking on me like, "Oh, no."

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:11</time>
And he's like, "You, um, you just wanna go back to the hotel?" And I remember

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:16</time>
thinking, "If I do that, I'm gonna think about this all night, and I'm not gonna

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:20</time>
wanna get back on this horse." Plus, I thought the horse is gonna know he can

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:25</time>
buck me off and he's done for the day.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:27</time>
So it was one of the bravest moments of my life when I put my foot back in that

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:32</time>
stirrup and got up on that horse again.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:34</time>
And I think, uh, I don't think Ron or Dayson thought I would do it, but I did.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:38</time>
I got back on that horse, and it was a terrific experience.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:41</time>
But one of the scenes, our horses have been in cannon fire and gunshots,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:48</time>
and they're just freaking out.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:51</time>
And then we have this scene right after, and so we think maybe

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:55</time>
they'll be calmed down because switching scenes is a big ordeal.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:58</time>
I mean, you're talking at least minimum an hour even with a good crew.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:02</time>
But the horses are still really jumpy, and this is where, just like David

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:06</time>
was talking about, we're trying to have this conversation on horseback,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:09</time>
and our horses are going crazy.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:11</time>
They're bouncing their heads up and down, they're jerking this way and

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:13</time>
that, and they'll just start running.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:15</time>
And, and so Shane, the director, he's just getting ticked 'cause

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:20</time>
these horses won't stay still.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:21</time>
And finally he said, "You know what?" And he had the ca- He said, "Back up,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:24</time>
back up." He said, "Go with it." So our horses will just randomly take

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:27</time>
off while we're trying to talk, and he said it actually looks more realistic.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:30</time>
And in one of them, David actually grabs the horse and just goes, "Ho," and

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:34</time>
then he turns to me and keeps talking.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:35</time>
And, and afterwards, David even said to me, "That was a train

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:38</time>
wreck." Then we saw it on, on, we got to see it a little bit later.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:42</time>
They showed us some of the clips.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:43</time>
It looked so realistic, as horses would if they had just been

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:46</time>
through, you know, a, a war.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:48</time>
Uh, it was, it turned out to be a really good scene.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:50</time>
But I just remember David y- gra- you know, "Ho," yelling at his

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:53</time>
horse while we're in the middle of dialogue 'cause that thing, j- Blue

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:56</time>
is just, was a nut, and so was mine.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:58</time>
His name was Jasper, and he was in a commercial recently with Post Malone.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:03</time>
Oh, no

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:03</time>
I like, " There's my horse."

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:04</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:05</time>
a, there's another great thing…

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:06</time>
so I would say it sounds very method.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:08</time>
Like, you guys are almost, like, method acting here, right?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:11</time>
Like, people are in character.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:12</time>
You have to be in character to order the men to do something

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:15</time>
even if it's not during a scene.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:16</time>
Yeah, on location too.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:17</time>
Right?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:17</time>
You're with the horses.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:19</time>
The horses are act- and you have to kinda go with the flow and just, you know, reign

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:23</time>
'em in as you're trying to do your scene.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:25</time>
It sounds like it really helped you maintain your character and, like,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:28</time>
stay in that spatial awareness of what you were trying to reenact.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:33</time>
It was, you know, there was, So first of all, there was one other

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:35</time>
thing I was gonna throw in about

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:36</time>
Mm-hmm.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:36</time>
horse.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:36</time>
very early in my research about General Forrest, I found out that he was renowned

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:42</time>
for standing up and riding into battle

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:45</time>
Oh, wow.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:46</time>
at full

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:47</time>
Wow.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:47</time>
Thank you.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:47</time>
I didn't know that

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:48</time>
and would oftentimes shoot men from horseback standing.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:53</time>
And his whole thing about literally was, again, part of his larger than

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:56</time>
life persona, but he legitimately did it where he was just like, "Come get

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:59</time>
me. Come get it. What do you want?" And he would routinely stand up in the

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:03</time>
middle of the battlefield and be able to, you know, see where his men were and

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:06</time>
things like that, and would sometimes ride across the battlefield standing.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:09</time>
So I insisted that Ron and Dason teach me how to do that so that we… And there's

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:14</time>
several scenes where I do it actually in the movie, and, and it looks so

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:18</time>
That's awesome

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:19</time>
yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:19</time>
It's just, and it's so iconic and just so indicative of Nathan Bedford

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:24</time>
Forrest and, and all of that.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:26</time>
But, you know, back to you guys' point, I was having the exact same thing with

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:30</time>
Lee and anyone who actually knows me, I- I'm like the most casual, non-formal

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:34</time>
dude that there, that there possibly is.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:36</time>
And so going in there and, but then you step into this larger than life,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:41</time>
not just a general in the Civil War, not just, but Nathan Bedford

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:44</time>
Yeah

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:45</time>
you know, in there, who these men just idolized.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:48</time>
You know, his men loved

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:50</time>
Mm-hmm.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:51</time>
so to walk in there and then to go onto the, you know, onto the sets and

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:55</time>
things like that, and then just be kind of lavished with that much respect

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:59</time>
and renown at the same time, you know, there's, there's obviously the great

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:02</time>
deal of imposter syndrome for me at first where I'm like, "Gosh, you can relax."

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:05</time>
Like, I'm just, you know, it's like, it's cool, but they're

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:07</time>
just, that's just not the world.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:09</time>
But so, like, once I eventually leaned into that and said, "Okay, this is what

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:13</time>
we're gonna do, this is what we're gonna do, this is gonna be the way," it became

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:16</time>
so easy just stay in character the whole

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:21</time>
Absolutely

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:21</time>
and just live in it because everybody was just kind of,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:25</time>
that's what everybody was doing.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:27</time>
And after several weeks, even the, the rest of the people on set, you know,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:32</time>
the, the camera guys, the, the, you know, the supporting, all the, all

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:35</time>
the… Everyone just kind of went with it, and they just did their whole thing.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:38</time>
So it's like you show up on set, get into costume, and that was

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:40</time>
it, you know, until, until we were wrapped for the day, and it was, it

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:44</time>
wa- it was a pretty fun experience.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:46</time>
because we were with all the, the purists.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:48</time>
Wherever we would go, we were saluted.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:50</time>
It was awesome.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:52</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:52</time>
Oh

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:52</time>
It was constant

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:54</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:55</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:55</time>
Um, so let's talk about the elephant in the room then.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:58</time>
What does it feel like playing Confederates?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:01</time>
Like, so when we did that interview in Gettysburg the director and the writer

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:06</time>
of the movie was in the movie Gettysburg, and he talked about how has seen a shift

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:12</time>
now when people play General Lee, I think it was Martin Sheen who plays Lee in it.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:18</time>
Like, he was very renowned for his portrayal, and people… and but he

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:22</time>
said now it was hard for him to get people to want to play Confederates.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:27</time>
People don't want to even step into that space, and said it's killing

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:33</time>
acting for that, and I wanna know how you guys feel about that.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:39</time>
Well, I'm happy to go first

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:43</time>
one of the things that I learned in studying the Civil War a tremendous

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:49</time>
amount was that there are stereotypes that exist today that are not real, and

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:56</time>
one of them is the idea that there was all these Southerners owning slaves.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:02</time>
Did you know, and, and feel free to look this up, the, the

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:06</time>
estimates are between one and 3% of Southerners actually owned slaves.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:12</time>
I don't think I knew that Oh, yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:13</time>
it was, it was incredibly expensive to do,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:16</time>
Mm-hmm.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:17</time>
there were people who, uh, were opposed to it in the South.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:21</time>
And what, what was going on was, and you can read accounts of this, where

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:25</time>
there were people who did not own slaves, didn't even know there was

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:28</time>
a war going on, working their crops with their families, and this cavalry

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:34</time>
unit comes over the hill and executes their sons and burns their home down

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:40</time>
and takes the woman as a prisoner.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:42</time>
And so a lot of Southerners were simply defending their homes.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:47</time>
They didn't even know what the issue was.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:48</time>
They, I mean, we didn't have the internet.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:50</time>
They barely had

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:52</time>
They

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:52</time>
And so, yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:54</time>
And you know what's interesting is General Van Dorn, most people don't

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:57</time>
know this, but he was extremely opposed to the United States fighting itself.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:28:04</time>
And so the first surrender of the war was where Van Dorn in near Galveston,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:28:09</time>
Texas, took, uh, command of a Northern ship that was bringing in soldiers,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:28:14</time>
and he said, he said, "Keep your guns. We're all Americans." He said, "The,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:28:19</time>
you're not my prisoners. The only thing I ask of you, if you sign this

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:28:23</time>
document pledging you will not take up arms against your fellow Americans."

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:28:27</time>
And all but five of them signed it, and those five threw

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:28:30</time>
their guns into the ocean.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:28:32</time>
The others, he let them keep their guns.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:28:33</time>
He said, "You're not my prisoners. You're Americans." For that, where he

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:28:37</time>
prevented bloodshed, it was the first surrender of the Civil War, but he also

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:28:41</time>
prevented them from starting the war.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:28:43</time>
It hadn't started yet.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:28:44</time>
Lincoln proclaimed Van Dorn a pirate, wanted dead or alive.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:28:48</time>
He put the highest bounty in the world on his head, $5,000, which doesn't

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:28:51</time>
sound like much today, but then it was you never have to work again money.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:28:55</time>
Yeah

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:28:56</time>
And so Van Dorn, what choice did he have?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:29:00</time>
Because he was wanted dead or alive by those guys, so who's he gonna fight with?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:29:03</time>
Sure

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:29:05</time>
So th- there are some thoughts there that most Southerners were defending

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:29:09</time>
their, their lands, didn't know why these people were coming and killing, you

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:29:12</time>
know, them, and they didn't own slaves.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:29:14</time>
And they s- the people who were fighting, they certainly weren't fighting for

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:29:17</time>
1% of somebody else to own slaves.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:29:19</time>
You know, most of it was, most of them would've said it was self-defense

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:29:23</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:29:24</time>
D- David, how about you?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:29:27</time>
Yeah he already covered Lee already covered all of that.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:29:29</time>
So I, I think, you know, one of my interesting things about I very

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:29:32</time>
much resonate what, what you guys were just saying about Gettysburg

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:29:39</time>
I agree with that, and I think it's an absolute travesty, and here's why.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:29:43</time>
So I, I went to classical theater school, and one of the great things, and one of

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:29:47</time>
the reasons I fell in love with acting, and I've just become so passionate about

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:29:50</time>
it, is acting is not about performing.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:29:53</time>
It's about exploration of the human spirit and the human nature

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:29:57</time>
and the understanding that inside, largely, we all want the same things.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:30:02</time>
We wanna be loved, we wanna be understood, we wanna be safe,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:30:05</time>
accept-- so on and so forth, right?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:30:06</time>
It's just the exterior or the methodology to get those things that's

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:30:13</time>
different for people, but at the end of the day, child would want the same

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:30:17</time>
Yeah

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:30:17</time>
what, what, what maybe what you guys think of what it means to be loved to

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:30:21</time>
you may be a little bit different from me, and that's what people see, right?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:30:24</time>
That's the exterior.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:30:25</time>
But it's still wanting to be loved.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:30:27</time>
And so I think that this whole thing nowadays… A-and that's what the theater

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:30:34</time>
has always been about, acting is a safe place to explore the truth in the

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:30:42</time>
uncomfortable sides of human nature.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:30:45</time>
They're all the way back even in the Greeks and, you know, classical theater.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:30:48</time>
The theater was the one place that was safe to say what everyone was

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:30:51</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:30:51</time>
right?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:30:52</time>
Yeah

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:30:52</time>
that, even the kings and people would let it

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:30:55</time>
Yep

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:30:55</time>
as long as it was in the theater, even though the theater was just saying

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:30:59</time>
what the populace was too scared to

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:31:01</time>
Yeah

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:31:02</time>
But that was the privilege and the beautiful thing about that exploration.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:31:06</time>
I think that nowadays, I totally agree with you.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:31:08</time>
There's so much thing-- People ca-- are, are losing this ability separate

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:31:14</time>
society and modern ideologies from the

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:31:19</time>
Mm-hmm.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:31:20</time>
I think that that's incredibly tragic for two reasons.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:31:23</time>
One, think it shows an erosion of maturity and of emotional intelligence and all

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:31:29</time>
that for people to go, "Oh, I can't… I you know, I-- Oh, well, you know, I can't

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:31:33</time>
think American History X is a good movie.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:31:35</time>
What will people think about me?" It's like it's a good movie, and it's…

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:31:38</time>
You know, they're like, "Oh." You know, you see, you know, the cancellation of

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:31:42</time>
books now, you know, where people are like, "Oh, we can't watch To Kill--

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:31:45</time>
We can't read To Kill a Mockingbird.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:31:46</time>
It makes people offended." It's like, "It

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:31:48</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:31:48</time>
the

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:31:49</time>
That's the point Mm-hmm

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:31:50</time>
Exactly, exactly.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:31:52</time>
And anybody who knows, who studies philosophy or history or human

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:31:56</time>
psychology knows that the fastest way to create travesties is to forget

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:32:02</time>
the ones that already happened, shut yourself off from that sort of thing

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:32:07</time>
and to, and to kind of deny this whole section of, of the human condition.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:32:12</time>
And, and I think that that's where we're going

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:32:14</time>
Mm-hmm.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:32:15</time>
right now.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:32:15</time>
You know, as a society, there's a lot of that.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:32:18</time>
And I think that… And then when you get into an acting world about it, I've

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:32:21</time>
seen it even, you know, once I got out of theater school and so on and so forth,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:32:24</time>
and then I would go to do continued training at certain times, and I've

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:32:27</time>
watched a little bit of that ideology go into some of the modern work that

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:32:32</time>
people were doing, and it makes them

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:32:34</time>
Mm-hmm.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:32:35</time>
Like they'll literally all of a sudden people won't make the choice.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:32:40</time>
And I'm like, could you imagine, to go back to, could you imagine

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:32:43</time>
if Edward Norton was scared be as racist as he possibly could when

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:32:49</time>
he was first playing that chara- he's not playing the character.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:32:52</time>
He's tell- he's not telling the story.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:32:54</time>
The story loses its

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:32:55</time>
Yeah

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:32:56</time>
its function, it loses all of everything that made it powerful if he didn't

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:33:01</time>
have the balls to just do it, right?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:33:05</time>
You know, but we don't walk around saying Hannibal, you know, Anthony

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:33:07</time>
Hopkins actually is a cannibal

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:33:09</time>
Right

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:33:09</time>
Hannibal Lecter so brilliantly, right?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:33:11</time>
And, and people have just lost this whole thing.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:33:14</time>
And so I think that all of that is there.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:33:16</time>
And then the other thing that I remember is that, and I think that this is a great

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:33:21</time>
thing, again, getting back into Nathan Bedford Forrest of Mandy was Lord of Life.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:33:25</time>
Everybody does whatever they do because they think it's the best option

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:33:30</time>
they have in their circumstances.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:33:33</time>
That's basically the motivation for every human

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:33:35</time>
That's a great point

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:33:36</time>
always trying to do the thing that we think is the best for

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:33:39</time>
us at that particular time, given our experience, given our

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:33:43</time>
possibility, all that sort of stuff.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:33:45</time>
And, and it's not that people go out there thinking they're a bad person

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:33:49</time>
or thinking this, and there's, there's this huge danger of pushing modern

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:33:55</time>
ideologies and modern thought processes onto past because at the same time

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:34:00</time>
you're like, "Dude, at the time they were doing exactly what they thought

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:34:04</time>
was totally normal and totally correct."

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:34:06</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:34:07</time>
So to try to play that, that was what I tried to remember the

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:34:11</time>
whole time when dissecting Nathan Bedford Forrest's motivation.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:34:14</time>
It's like, what does the child want?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:34:17</time>
He wants to be safe, he wants to be loved, he wants to be respected.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:34:20</time>
You know,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:34:20</time>
Mm-hmm.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:34:20</time>
normal things that we want nowadays, and he's doing what he thinks is right,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:34:27</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:34:27</time>
Yeah

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:34:28</time>
A-a-and so I tried to just find that and embody that and live from

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:34:32</time>
that place rather than a place of

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:34:36</time>
Yeah

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:34:36</time>
a place of… or something else.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:34:39</time>
You know what's interesting is Pirates of the Caribbean is

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:34:43</time>
a, a franchise I, I just love.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:34:45</time>
I, I, I enjoy it.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:34:48</time>
My sons love it.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:34:49</time>
It was… It's obviously been extremely successful.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:34:53</time>
Do you know what Pirates did to people?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:34:55</time>
Oh, yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:34:57</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:34:57</time>
w- you wanna talk about the monsters and the killers and the villains, and

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:35:02</time>
we've turned them into the heroes.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:35:03</time>
I mean, they were celebrated.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:35:05</time>
And Jack Sparrow, a lot of people don't know this, it's in the

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:35:09</time>
deleted scenes of, on the first DVD of Pirates of the Caribbean.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:35:13</time>
Do you know that the Black Pearl was a sh- a slave transport ship?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:35:20</time>
I believe it Oh, I didn't know that 'Cause that was, that was Blackbeard's

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:35:22</time>
The, the East,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:35:24</time>
was a slave ship.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:35:25</time>
So if it m- if

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:35:25</time>
the

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:35:26</time>
after Blackbeard, it's the same kind of

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:35:28</time>
Yeah, the East India Trading Company.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:35:31</time>
Mm-hmm.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:35:32</time>
so, you know, we, we have this franchise that we celebrate, and these people were

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:35:37</time>
bloodthirsty se- killers who would go into town when they arrived and kill

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:35:40</time>
everybody and steal from them, and we made them into Disney characters.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:35:44</time>
No,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:35:46</time>
so we're j-

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:35:46</time>
you.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:35:47</time>
yeah, so

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:35:47</time>
I

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:35:48</time>
we see it, we're, we're, we're telling this is what happened.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:35:51</time>
We're not telling people how to think about it.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:35:53</time>
We're just saying, "Hey, this happened."

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:35:55</time>
That's what historians do So she says it all, she says it all the time We tell

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:35:58</time>
you how to think, not what to think.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:35:59</time>
Yes.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:36:00</time>
Right?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:36:00</time>
Truth matters, and I commend you guys for telling the truth

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:36:04</time>
because the problem is it's not black and white, it's gray, right?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:36:08</time>
And people need to empathize with the truth.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:36:12</time>
If you wanna really understand it with humanity, you need to empathize with it to

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:36:16</time>
understand where these people are coming from and the choices that they're making.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:36:19</time>
I commend you guys for telling the truth about… 'Cause these

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:36:22</time>
were amazing characters to play.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:36:24</time>
They have amazing stories to tell.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:36:27</time>
And who wants to tell the boring story of the person who didn't do

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:36:31</time>
anything, who didn't take a chance and test their mettle, right?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:36:34</time>
Like, you guys are really doing it, so I commend you for telling their stories.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:36:38</time>
And and I'm, I'm really looking forward to seeing this movie.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:36:42</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:36:42</time>
It, it's, it's one of those things that we're constantly talking about,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:36:46</time>
both on, on the podcast and on, on the YouTube channel, context matters, right?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:36:50</time>
Context is everything, and both of you guys said, said that

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:36:53</time>
just in, in your own way, right?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:36:54</time>
From a historical perspective and from an actor's perspective of what

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:36:58</time>
you're trying to do in portraying, truly portraying that character.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:37:02</time>
And it, it reminded me a little bit of Have you guys ever seen, probably not

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:37:06</time>
because I had never seen it there's a 1985 Civil War series, miniseries with

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:37:11</time>
Patrick Swayze- That he probably saw

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:37:12</time>
called North and South.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:37:14</time>
We've-

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:37:14</time>
I've heard of it.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:37:15</time>
Haven't seen it

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:37:16</time>
With Patrick Swayze … you, I, I'm telling you guys- … you

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:37:18</time>
should go watch it.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:37:18</time>
It's early Patrick Swayze.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:37:20</time>
Like, from, like, the first time you see him, I was my first thought was, like,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:37:24</time>
man, he, he looks like just, he's it looks like he's still got baby fat on him.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:37:28</time>
Right?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:37:28</time>
Just young Patrick Swayze.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:37:29</time>
It was awesome.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:37:30</time>
And

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:37:31</time>
He was awesome

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:37:32</time>
we, we- Yeah … we watched the whole, we watched the series and we talked about it

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:37:34</time>
on a podcast with another friend of ours.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:37:36</time>
But they do the, they do a similar thing of what you guys are talking

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:37:39</time>
about, is they kinda stretch it out.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:37:40</time>
It's everything leading up to the Civil War in this first part of the

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:37:43</time>
miniseries, and they provide this North and South context, and these

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:37:47</time>
two guys who become best friends.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:37:49</time>
And they, they show both sides and the struggle on both sides and exactly

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:37:52</time>
what you guys are talking about, that not everybody was slave owners.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:37:56</time>
A lot of it was self-defense.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:37:58</time>
There was extremes on both sides back then, but then

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:38:00</time>
there's everybody in the middle.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:38:01</time>
So I really appreciate you guys bringing up, kinda, one, the reality

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:38:06</time>
of the contextual history, but then also the reality of contextual people.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:38:11</time>
People are, are gray, that we live in that, in that gray.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:38:14</time>
Now, one of the other things- Mm-hmm … yes, people are people.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:38:19</time>
We say that all the time.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:38:20</time>
Now, o- one of the things, you guys filmed on location kind of so

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:38:23</time>
throughout various spots of Tennessee.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:38:25</time>
Now, Lee, I saw, one of the things I was looking up, that you guys

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:38:29</time>
actually got some kinda real artifacts that you were able to use on set.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:38:33</time>
Can you, you talk a little bit about some of those?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:38:37</time>
One of them, and I'm glad that, uh, David can… I've been, I

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:38:41</time>
keep meaning to ask him this.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:38:42</time>
We talk a lot, almost every day, and I, every time I, we do, I forget.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:38:47</time>
But there was a top an undershirt, well, not an undershirt, but it, it

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:38:52</time>
was worn under the general's jacket that was owned by General Forrest

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:38:58</time>
that actually still had blood stain

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:39:01</time>
No

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:39:01</time>
from General Forrest on it.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:39:03</time>
It was owned by his, Sarge is his nickname, but Maury forgive

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:39:08</time>
me, Mari, I, I can't think of his last name at the moment.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:39:10</time>
We, we just called him Sarge, and, um, he had this shirt, and it had the

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:39:16</time>
bloodstain of, of General Forrest on it.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:39:18</time>
And both David and I put it on, and I'm pretty sure Dave

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:39:22</time>
wore it in one of the scenes.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:39:24</time>
Is that right, brother?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:39:26</time>
Yeah, that's,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:39:27</time>
Wow

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:39:29</time>
true.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:39:29</time>
And as a matter of fact so during several of the scenes,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:39:32</time>
So y- 100%, you know, so we actually worked into S&P, I

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:39:36</time>
mean, the production office.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:39:37</time>
I had nothing to do with it.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:39:38</time>
But the very strong and Sarge in particular, you know, is just a

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:39:41</time>
legend down there, not only for his knowledge, but for, you know, the

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:39:45</time>
incredible network and the respect that, that he has down there.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:39:50</time>
so he somehow convinced the museum to lend us authentic, not replicas,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:39:58</time>
real artifacts from the Civil War.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:40:02</time>
at one point in time we, you know, Lee already mentioned the shirt

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:40:05</time>
that he and I both wore there.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:40:07</time>
That was General Nathan Bedford Forrest's real

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:40:09</time>
Wow

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:40:10</time>
still crusted with blood to this day.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:40:14</time>
they lent me his revolver

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:40:17</time>
Whoa

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:40:18</time>
which is, I mean, r- it's basically a priceless artifact.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:40:24</time>
And it was his real revolver, and they don't know how many confirmed

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:40:27</time>
kills he got with it or anything like that, but it was a lot.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:40:31</time>
I actually use it in one of the scenes, and then they also gave

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:40:35</time>
me his sword that they had.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:40:38</time>
And what-- So there's one scene where I draw my sword standing from horseback

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:40:43</time>
and command charge to everybody.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:40:45</time>
I think it's in the trailer and things like that.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:40:47</time>
That's his real

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:40:48</time>
Oh my gosh

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:40:50</time>
But at the end, as a wrap gift, all of the re-enactors came together

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:41:00</time>
Holy cow

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:41:02</time>
And gave me a real Civil

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:41:05</time>
Oh, that's awesome Oh, that's super cool

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:41:07</time>
an authentic sword um, by an unknown soldier, not a

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:41:14</time>
Oh, wow

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:41:16</time>
that I don't know exactly if the museum had it, but they were willing to give it

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:41:20</time>
up or, or, or like something like that.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:41:22</time>
But it is actually a real Civil War sword used in battle by

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:41:27</time>
an unknown, unnamed soldier.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:41:29</time>
That's really cool.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:41:30</time>
That's awesome.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:41:32</time>
And then I got to use I didn't know at the time it was going to be given to me,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:41:37</time>
but Van Dorn, because he was wanted dead or alive, he was the, he was more heavily

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:41:44</time>
guarded than Lincoln or President Davis.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:41:47</time>
Wow

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:41:47</time>
He had this is according to Maury Sarge, he, he had 40 bodyguards,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:41:53</time>
Wow.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:41:54</time>
Holy cow

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:41:54</time>
because he was under that kind of threat from the North, which if you

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:41:59</time>
see our movie, you'll, you'll kinda see that we bring some of that in there.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:42:03</time>
But this is a Colt Walker

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:42:07</time>
Oh, cool Wow.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:42:10</time>
Yep.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:42:10</time>
They were involved.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:42:11</time>
Holy cow.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:42:12</time>
That is

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:42:13</time>
And it, uh, is Van Dorn carried two of these all the time.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:42:19</time>
And if you ever… I don't know, obviously you can't… I don't know if

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:42:23</time>
you can tell, but this is a heavy gun.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:42:25</time>
It's about eight or nine pounds.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:42:26</time>
Oh my

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:42:27</time>
And, uh, he had two of them on him at all times, and it's actually used in a little,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:42:33</time>
little love fight that he and Forrest had where he pulls a gun on Forrest.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:42:37</time>
But, uh, it was this particular gun, and it's made from some authentic

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:42:41</time>
pieces and some replica pieces.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:42:44</time>
But it's, it's quite the, quite the item to behold.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:42:47</time>
And we got, uh, I also had a t- terrific sword that was, um, it was

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:42:52</time>
a replica, but it was identical, you know, so it, it felt real, and I

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:42:56</time>
had it on me pretty much all times.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:42:58</time>
And I know David did his as well.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:43:00</time>
It was really an immersive experience for, uh, you know, like a month.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:43:04</time>
We felt like we were literally Civil War generals in s- in many ways.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:43:09</time>
We probably ate a lot better, but

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:43:12</time>
And you guys didn't sleep outside.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:43:14</time>
Did you sleep outside

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:43:15</time>
We did not.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:43:15</time>
No, we slept in a, in a hotel.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:43:18</time>
Nice, nice hotel

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:43:21</time>
Now of these two gentlemen, have you been to their grave sites?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:43:24</time>
Have you gone to visit their graves?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:43:26</time>
I know Van Doren is buried in, is it Port Gibson?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:43:30</time>
I've been there.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:43:31</time>
As a matter of fact you can go to the Instagram Legend of Van Dorn,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:43:34</time>
and if you scroll down a few of the videos, you'll actually see me at the

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:43:38</time>
grave site of General Earl Van Dorn.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:43:41</time>
And then Dave and I both were at Forrest's grave over in Elm, Elm Springs here in

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:43:47</time>
Yes Yeah They just moved it there.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:43:49</time>
We filmed there, as a matter of fact.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:43:51</time>
We filmed at Elm Springs, yes

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:43:54</time>
Thad

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:43:54</time>
Yeah, and Lee actually even took me over to

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:43:57</time>
that's right

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:43:58</time>
Forbes' childhood home.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:43:59</time>
wow.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:44:00</time>
Yeah

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:44:00</time>
So we got to go to everywhere and, and go around and see the thing, and it

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:44:05</time>
was pretty wild sitting there going, "Wow, this is probably where General

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:44:10</time>
Forrest literally ran around as a child."

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:44:13</time>
Wow

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:44:13</time>
the woods that he played in, the bed that he slept in.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:44:16</time>
I mean, like, everything.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:44:18</time>
know, imagining playing hide-and-go-seek, you know, out in the woods or,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:44:21</time>
or whatever the case is, or in the dilapidated barn that's still

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:44:25</time>
Mm-hmm.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:44:26</time>
All that sort of stuff.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:44:27</time>
It was just a wild, wild experience.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:44:30</time>
So, so what was it like for you guys?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:44:32</time>
Because, you know, Forrest was very much kind of a self-made, kinda came up, you

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:44:38</time>
know, I, I, I mean, he was poor initially and then kind of got some money, right?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:44:42</time>
And that's how he got his commission.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:44:44</time>
Whereas Van Dorn kinda came from the other side of the tracks, right?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:44:47</time>
He w- went to West Point, didn't graduate, if, if I remember right, the

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:44:52</time>
No, he did.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:44:53</time>
He got…

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:44:53</time>
Oh, okay.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:44:54</time>
graduated, just not the

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:44:55</time>
He graduated.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:44:56</time>
Which I, which I, I- You, you can relate to … I can totally identify with that.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:44:59</time>
So, He went to the academy.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:00</time>
Yeah, so

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:01</time>
Now part of that, his defense was because of demerits.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:04</time>
So he actually, 'cause he drank whiskey and he cussed a lot they said.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:09</time>
Yeah,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:09</time>
So he might have had really good grades, but he had demerits

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:12</time>
that demoted his grades.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:13</time>
I can

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:13</time>
Anyway

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:14</time>
id- I can absolutely identify with that.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:15</time>
So, so what was it like for, for you guys playing these two- Yeah … kind

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:20</time>
of, again, kinda coming from the each, each side of the tracks,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:22</time>
but then working together, right?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:24</time>
And historically, obviously, that's what happened.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:27</time>
H- how mean, how were you guys able to kinda develop that dynamic?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:30</time>
Like, what was that like?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:31</time>
Well, and you know what's, you know what's really interesting about that,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:34</time>
the historical truth that you were just hitting on, and then Lee and I

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:37</time>
as friends and just as individuals, because again, anyone who knows

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:41</time>
me, I cuss all the time, and at one point in time I drank quite a bit.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:46</time>
But General Forrest doesn't.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:49</time>
He didn't cuss.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:51</time>
He was not into or

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:54</time>
He didn't drink

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:55</time>
didn't drink, nothing.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:57</time>
He was actually very, very devout to his wife.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:46:00</time>
It, which is again, it's an interesting thing to

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:46:02</time>
Yeah

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:46:03</time>
a guy, he did not go to West Point or have formal education.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:46:06</time>
He was self-educated and actually took it as a point of pride to constantly

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:46:11</time>
des- destroy West Point grads and all this other sort of stuff because

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:46:15</time>
it was literally, it was part of his e- I mean, he, he was, he got

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:46:18</time>
Yeah

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:46:18</time>
just loved embarrassing these people.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:46:21</time>
Like what you said, he came from pretty much nothing and was largely

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:46:24</time>
just a self-made man and rose to just these tremendous heights.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:46:28</time>
And it's, it's very interesting, you know, because because Lee himself is,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:46:31</time>
is a man who is not given to, to, to cussing much or anything like that.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:46:35</time>
So it's interesting for him to step into Van Dorn's,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:46:39</time>
Sure

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:46:40</time>
characterization

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:46:41</time>
yeah

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:46:41</time>
then, you know, for me to go into Forrest, it was just literally like a

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:46:44</time>
complete role reversal on the whole thing

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:46:47</time>
Yeah, and Van Dorn is, like, very t- tested soldier.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:46:51</time>
Like, he's in the Mexican-American War, he's part of the American

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:46:55</time>
Indian Wars, like you talked about with the Comanche and the Cherokee.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:46:58</time>
Like, he's a tested soldier.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:46:59</time>
By the time he hits the Civil War, it's, like, a old hat for him almost.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:47:04</time>
It's not new, what he's learning how to do, his tactics and stuff.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:47:08</time>
Um- Well, and, and the interesting thing, another interesting thing I, I, when I

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:47:11</time>
was reading about Van Dorn, is, like, all the accounts as I'm doing my, my

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:47:14</time>
generic non-historian research on- online, it, all of them said, like, " Van Dorn

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:47:19</time>
was an incredibly handsome man." Right?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:47:22</time>
It, it, like, it said that consistently, and then it basically said, like, he,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:47:26</time>
you know, he, he was a womanizer, right?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:47:28</time>
He was, for the most part, you know, out there kinda whatever he could get his, you

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:47:32</time>
know, whoever he could get his hands on.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:47:33</time>
man.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:47:34</time>
Yeah, you know, like, a- and so I, I find that so interesting and, and

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:47:37</time>
you know if it says it consistently in historical accounts, it was,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:47:41</time>
was probably relatively true

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:47:44</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:47:45</time>
Yeah, and

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:47:46</time>
And he was, he wasn't, he didn't even hide it either.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:47:47</time>
Like, he was always this… I mean, he like, especially at

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:47:50</time>
that time where it was just

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:47:53</time>
No, decorum was such a thing, right?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:47:56</time>
ah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:47:57</time>
And he

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:47:58</time>
that we, that was made known.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:48:00</time>
I didn't realize it until kinda near the, the end of it, but there was the reason

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:48:04</time>
we were doing certain scenes, and it was to show that this was a very public

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:48:08</time>
thing, and that's… The accounts say that the people were kinda shocked at

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:48:11</time>
how open Van Dorn and, and Jessie Peters were with their affair, that hi- his ca-

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:48:17</time>
carriage would go to her house and pick her up at all times of the day and night.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:48:21</time>
They were seen walking the streets of Spring Hill together, you know, downtown.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:48:24</time>
They would go to banquets together,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:48:25</time>
That's

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:48:26</time>
together.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:48:27</time>
And he, he… I think he got to a point in his life where i- and this, this…

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:48:32</time>
I'm not justifying it, but I, I think I maybe can explain it to some degree,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:48:37</time>
and that is he knew every day could be his last, either by battle, or he

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:48:42</time>
knew that the most powerful man in the world, arguably, Abraham Lincoln, had

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:48:46</time>
a bounty on his head, uh, of $5,000, which, you know, today's money, I

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:48:50</time>
don't know what that is, m- probably millions, but it was life-changing.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:48:55</time>
And, you know, when you go so long thinking, "I probably won't live

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:49:01</time>
to see tomorrow," or, "I may not live to see tomorrow" … You know,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:49:04</time>
during the Comanche Wars, he took an arrow through his lungs and through

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:49:06</time>
his stomach, and they gave him,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:49:08</time>
That's

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:49:08</time>
you know, tha- he wasn't gonna live through the night.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:49:10</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:49:11</time>
And then five weeks later, he, he, he beats the Comanches a second

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:49:14</time>
time, and they never come back

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:49:16</time>
Mm-hmm.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:49:16</time>
they think that, that the, the, the, um, Cherokee are under

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:49:20</time>
the protection of Van Dorn.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:49:21</time>
So this guy's, this guy knows he is mortal, and I think in the, i- in the

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:49:28</time>
war, in some ways, that Jessie and Van Dorn were kinda two souls s- in some

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:49:34</time>
ways trying to save each other, just like let's have something special in the

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:49:37</time>
middle of this hell that we're in, and I think that's how he looked at life.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:49:41</time>
So I'm not justifying it, but I do think that if you're trying to understand Van

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:49:45</time>
Dorn, and I'm not saying that I've done it more than anybody else, but I've

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:49:49</time>
spent years trying to understand the man.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:49:51</time>
And in a time of war, maybe you do things you wouldn't normally do.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:49:56</time>
You know, maybe

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:49:57</time>
Yeah, you seize the day because you don't- might be your last.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:49:59</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:50:00</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:50:00</time>
So I, I can understand that.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:50:03</time>
All right, so, so as we get ready to, to wrap things up here, for, for the both

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:50:07</time>
of you, right, you gu- again, spent a lot of time on location, which I think just

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:50:11</time>
lends to that authenticity of this, this movie that, that we're looking forward to.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:50:16</time>
Now, i- if the, if these battlefields could talk, right, if these battlefields

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:50:20</time>
could talk today, from the time you guys spent on them, what do you

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:50:23</time>
think they would say about the way we remember these events or these people?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:50:32</time>
Wow

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:50:34</time>
I, I think that we humanized these people and that we very much one of the things

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:50:43</time>
the director would tell us is that w- this is a fly on the wall type of movie, and

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:50:51</time>
that this is about a story that happened.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:50:54</time>
And so we're not trying to make this guy as always the bad guy, because no, no

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:51:00</time>
bad guy's always the bad guy, you know?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:51:02</time>
He had… People had kids, people had puppies, and they were… They

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:51:08</time>
wanted to live with their family.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:51:10</time>
They wanted to retire, things like that.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:51:13</time>
And so we were very… He was very much, uh, Mr.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:51:17</time>
Stanley was very much against caricatures and exaggerated portrayals, and he

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:51:22</time>
said, "What we want is we want people to see General Van Dorn, General Forrest,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:51:28</time>
Jesse Peters, Dr. Peters, all these people, and say those were human beings.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:51:34</time>
They, they weren't just words on a page or, or caricatures

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:51:38</time>
or bad guys or good guy.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:51:39</time>
They were human beings who were going through one of the worst times

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:51:43</time>
in the history of this country." And he said, "I wanna see human

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:51:47</time>
That's cool

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:51:50</time>
Where do you think the premiere's gonna be?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:51:52</time>
I'm, I'm going to show you

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:51:53</time>
Well,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:51:54</time>
but…

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:51:55</time>
We found out just recently.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:51:56</time>
It's Amazon Prime,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:51:58</time>
Okay?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:51:58</time>
Oh,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:51:58</time>
of them.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:51:59</time>
A- Amazon Prime, August 21st.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:52:02</time>
It will be on Charter Cable and Cox Cable, and then Verizon has a streaming

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:52:07</time>
service, I didn't even know that, and,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:52:08</time>
yeah

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:52:09</time>
Fandango, FandangoNOW.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:52:11</time>
Uh, that's August 21st, and then it will be on other platforms following that as

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:52:17</time>
well, but we, we don't know of those yet.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:52:19</time>
But Amazon Prime, August 21st.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:52:21</time>
You can go to The Legend of Van Dorn… I'm sorry, legendofvandorn.com.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:52:26</time>
That's legendofvandorn.com, and you can sign up to be notified, you know, reminded

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:52:31</time>
when it's, the day it's premiering and when it's premiering on other platforms.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:52:35</time>
It's legendofvandorn.com

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:52:38</time>
Awesome.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:52:38</time>
We did a red carpet event in Franklin.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:52:41</time>
Uh, it showed the Franklin Theater.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:52:42</time>
We sold that theater out and, and so Dave was there and everybody was there.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:52:46</time>
Oh, that's awesome

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:52:47</time>
DB Sweeney and Joe Lando and all the people who were in the, in the movie.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:52:51</time>
So we had a red carpet event there,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:52:52</time>
well, I'm really and I know you probably don't care, but I'm

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:52:55</time>
really proud of you gentlemen.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:52:57</time>
I'm really proud of you for telling

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:52:58</time>
you

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:52:59</time>
story.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:52:59</time>
I think it's our story, and I think it, we need to see it.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:53:03</time>
We need to embrace it.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:53:04</time>
It belongs to all of us, and I really love that you are truth tellers, and you're

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:53:09</time>
finding the humanity in all of us in history and portraying it for us to see.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:53:14</time>
So thank you for doing that

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:53:16</time>
So thank you for having us

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:53:19</time>
Thank you

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:53:19</time>
for those listening, for those watching, I will absolutely put the

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:53:22</time>
links that you mentioned in the video description of the podcast show notes,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:53:25</time>
so please keep an eye out for that.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:53:27</time>
End of August, that is The Legend of Van Dorn.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:53:34</time>
My immense thanks to Lee Wilson and David B. Meadows for joining us today.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:53:39</time>
It's rare to see a production lean so heavily into the physical reality of

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:53:43</time>
history, not just through the script and the performance, but by honoring the

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:53:47</time>
actual soil, the homes and battlefields where these incredible stories took place.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:53:52</time>
If you wanna see Lee and David bring this gripping chapter of middle

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:53:56</time>
Tennessee history to life, look out for The Legend of Van Dorn.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:54:00</time>
You can check out the trailer right now on Vimeo, and look in our podcast

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:54:03</time>
show notes and for some of the links to where you can find the movie.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:54:07</time>
We'll talk to you guys next time.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:54:08</time>
Thank you.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:54:10</time>
This has been a Walk With History production.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:54:12</time>
Talk With History is created and hosted by me, Scott Bennie.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:54:16</time>
Episode researched by Jennifer Bennie.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:54:18</time>
Check out the show notes for links and references mentioned in this episode.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:54:22</time>
Talk With History is supported by our community at thehistoryroadtrip.com.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:54:27</time>
Make sure you hit that follow button in that podcast player,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:54:30</time>
and we'll talk to you next time

The Story