Napoleon (2023): A Reenactor’s Review of the Epic

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:00:00</time>
So what is your best depiction of Napoleon then?

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:00:02</time>
There are several and in fact, Le Figaro magazine, newspaper one

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:00:09</time>
of the biggest ones in France did a listing of the hundred best Napoleons

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:00:13</time>
in film and I, I don't want to, I don't want to brag, but I made number 27,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:19</time>
All right.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:00:20</time>
In, in my role with Vincent Castle in the, the Emperor of Paris

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:00:25</time>
and and Joaquin Phoenix was 28.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:41</time>
Welcome to Talk With History.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:44</time>
I'm your host, Scott, here with my wife and historian, Jen.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:46</time>
Hello.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:47</time>
Now, our regular listeners may remember some of our Watch With

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:50</time>
History series, where we talk about the historical facts and fiction

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:54</time>
of some of your favorite movies.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:56</time>
We've only done a couple, but we're glad to bring it back today.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:59</time>
So on today's Watch With History episode, we're diving into the world

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:04</time>
of cinema to dissect and discuss the much anticipated 2023 film Napoleon,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:10</time>
a cinematic journey into the life and times of the legendary French emperor.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:15</time>
Join us as we unravel the threads of history woven into this blockbuster,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:20</time>
exploring the triumphs, the tribulations, and the undeniable charisma of one of

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:25</time>
history's most captivating figures.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:33</time>
Now, what makes this episode extra special is that we have a fantastic

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:38</time>
guest on board, a man who doesn't just study history, but lives and breathes it.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:42</time>
The renowned Napoleon reenactor, Mark Schneider.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:46</time>
Welcome, Mark.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:47</time>
Thank you.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:01:48</time>
Thank you.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:01:48</time>
Thanks for having

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:49</time>
Yeah, Mark brings a unique perspective to the table, having done

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:53</time>
the iconic bye corn hat stepped into the boots of Napoleon himself.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:57</time>
Get ready for some incredible insights from someone who's literally

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:00</time>
walked in the emperor's shoes.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:01</time>
So, Mark, thank you again for joining us.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:04</time>
We're really excited to have you.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:06</time>
Jen's been like talking about this for weeks now, and we both

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:10</time>
finally got to see the movie.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:11</time>
So, so Can you kind of talk, tell us our audience a little bit about who

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:16</time>
you are, kind of the different figures that you reenact for and, and kind

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:21</time>
of how you came about to play in the part of Napoleon for quite some time.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:02:27</time>
Absolutely, and thank you again for having me.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:02:30</time>
So, the Napoleon character has been a lifelong passion.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:02:34</time>
my mother used to say, and my mother was French and my dad's American,

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:02:37</time>
that's my French connection.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:02:39</time>
My mother would often say that she never knew a time that I

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:02:42</time>
was not interested in Napoleon.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:02:43</time>
I just seemed to have this fascination.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:02:45</time>
One of my French cousins gave me a little toy soldier of Napoleon.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:02:49</time>
He's actually right up here.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:02:51</time>
When I was like two or three years old and I was hooked ever since when kids

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:02:55</time>
at school had Batman and Superman on their desk, I had Napoleon on my desk.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:03:01</time>
That's

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:03:01</time>
So one day I came home from school and I was really upset because

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:03:06</time>
I've always been short and people made fun of my shortness and my big nose.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:03:10</time>
And my mother said to me, you know, the only people who have who are short and

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:03:14</time>
have big noses are kings and emperors.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:03:17</time>
And so maybe that was the, the catalyst to make me become Napoleon because

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:03:22</time>
I collected everything Napoleon read everything I possibly could on him.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:03:26</time>
I war gamed, I ran around town as one of his soldiers, but it wouldn't be until.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:03:32</time>
I became an adult when I started to actively pursue reenacting and I was

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:03:38</time>
given the opportunity to become Napoleon.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:03:40</time>
I actually was in the U.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:03:41</time>
S.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:03:41</time>
Army, and two weeks after I got out I came to Colonial Williamsburg to work.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:03:46</time>
at the largest living history museum in the world.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:03:48</time>
And I joined this reenacting group, which was outside of colonial Williamsburg,

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:03:52</time>
and we portrayed Napoleon's seventh, who SARS, which was a French cavalry

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:03:57</time>
regiment during the Napoleonic wars.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:03:59</time>
Well, one event we did, they needed somebody to portray Napoleon.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:04:03</time>
And I had attended the Napoleonic society of America conference, and I had acquired.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:04:08</time>
a costume that was worn by Albert in the 1927 silent film, Napoleon,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:04:15</time>
Oh, cool.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:04:15</time>
fit me perfectly.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:04:17</time>
It was, it was incredible.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:04:19</time>
In fact, it fit me so well that the guy who was selling it gave

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:04:23</time>
me this ridiculous discount.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:04:24</time>
He's like, you, you're meant to have this.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:04:27</time>
And I picked up the iconic, buy corn and put the rest of the kit together.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:04:31</time>
And I started portraying Napoleon.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:04:33</time>
It became very, very popular.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:04:34</time>
We did history channel.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:04:36</time>
Documentaries and we were given opportunities to, to do a bit

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:04:40</time>
of traveling, did the Louisiana Purchase with Thomas Jefferson.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:04:44</time>
But in 2005, I was given a a phone call by a group in Belgium and they

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:04:51</time>
were they were looking for a Napoleon.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:04:52</time>
In fact the guy called me, his name is Mark Van Meerbeek and

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:04:55</time>
said is this Monsieur Schneider we would like you to play Napoleon

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:04:59</time>
on the battlefield at Waterloo.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:05:01</time>
And I hung up on him.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:05:03</time>
I thought he was, I thought it was like one of my friends, like, kidding with me.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:05:06</time>
But he called back, thank goodness, and I sent him a resume, and I started to

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:05:12</time>
go to Europe from that moment forward.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:05:14</time>
So in 2005 is where it all really began.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:05:16</time>
I, I really have to give thanks to Colonial Williamsburg for teaching

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:05:20</time>
me the art of living history, of character interpretation, of

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:05:24</time>
nation building, as we call it.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:05:26</time>
And because I don't think they had seen that in reenactment before, where you

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:05:30</time>
take on the actual role of one of these generals or characters from history

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:05:36</time>
and immerse yourself, not only with the public, but with the reenactors

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:05:39</time>
so, That that's how it all began.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:05:42</time>
And so it's taken me to, to Belgium.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:05:45</time>
It's taken me to France.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:05:46</time>
It's taken me to Russia.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:05:47</time>
It's taken me to Germany, to Italy, Spain, Czech Republic.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:05:51</time>
In fact, I'm leaving for the Czech Republic on Wednesday to recreate.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:05:55</time>
The Battle of Austerlitz so that's my background on Napoleon.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:05:59</time>
Of course, I omitted a little bit about my work in Colonial Williamsburg.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:06:03</time>
I've been in the Colonial Williamsburg Foundation for 26 years.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:06:07</time>
And much of that time I have been portraying the Marquis de Lafayette.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:06:10</time>
So another Frenchman.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:06:12</time>
Who I do on a daily basis in a variety of different performances

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:06:16</time>
inside theaters, outdoor theaters riding horses, immersing the public

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:06:20</time>
with the history of the American Revolution and Lafayette's part in it.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:06:24</time>
So that should bring everybody up to date on what I'm all about.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:06:28</time>
that's perfect.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:06:28</time>
I mean, really showing kind of from, and that's, I mean, you

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:06:31</time>
kind of hit all the high points that we ask a lot of our guests.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:06:34</time>
You know, I can tell it's, it's, it's very possible that you've

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:06:37</time>
spoken in front of a camera before.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:06:39</time>
But

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:40</time>
that's what I was gonna say, like, you, you've Practiced

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:43</time>
it so much and the thing is you get better the more you do it.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:46</time>
I want to also say Mark is also an equestrian.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:49</time>
He is a fantastic horseman, so it really adds to the role when you

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:55</time>
play Napoleon and you're on the horse and you also speak fluent French.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:01</time>
And so.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:03</time>
Yes.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:04</time>
And so, I mean, again, those things make you so much more authentic

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:08</time>
to playing those characters.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:07:11</time>
I think it's one thing to know the who, what, when, where, why, you know,

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:07:16</time>
when you were born, what battles you fought in, who are you married to what

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:07:19</time>
were some pivotal moments in your life, but it's something else to immerse you.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:07:24</time>
Yourself into the 18th or 19th century with the things that they did, you know,

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:07:29</time>
whether it's you know, the knowledge of the, the layout of the city of Paris

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:07:33</time>
in 1784, when Napoleon was attending the École Militaire Royale or, you

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:07:38</time>
know, you can't say, well, I made a left at the Eiffel Tower and then I

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:07:41</time>
went by the Georges Pompidou Center because those things weren't there.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:45</time>
Mhm.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:07:47</time>
of the uniform riding horses, you know, horses have no patriotism.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:07:52</time>
They will throw a prince just as soon as they'll throw a pauper.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:07:55</time>
So you have to practice and practice and practice.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:07:58</time>
It's the only way you're going to become...

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:08:00</time>
Proficient at riding or fencing using the weapons, swords or musket or firing a

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:08:06</time>
cannon, you know, Napoleon was considered to be the greatest artillerist in history.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:08:10</time>
If I don't know how to fire a cannon, then I'm not going to

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:08:12</time>
be a very convincing Napoleon.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:08:14</time>
The same holds true with the, the horses on these reenactment battlefields

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:08:18</time>
that the cannons are going off and the horse doesn't know it's it's

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:08:21</time>
make believe that it's a reenact.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:08:23</time>
It's frightening to them.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:08:25</time>
So you have to use all your skills to you know, stay on, stay on the horse's

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:08:30</time>
back and look as impressive as possible.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:33</time>
When I see you portray those those characters, I feel

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:37</time>
like you just embody them.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:39</time>
Little side note, one of my greatest experiences with you, Mark was even

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:42</time>
before I even met you personally and was my birthday a year ago, I went

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:46</time>
to Colonial Williamsburg by myself and my birthday is in December.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:49</time>
It's like the big first week of December and I was walking down the street.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:53</time>
by myself and you were walking down the street by yourself as Lafayette and

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:57</time>
like nobody was really there because it's like a weekday in December and I

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:01</time>
felt like this is my birthday present.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:03</time>
I get to talk to Lafayette and you and I talked for like 10 minutes

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:06</time>
and I was like nobody was around and I'm like this is the greatest gift.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:10</time>
I remember she came home because I think it was like a Wednesday

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:13</time>
so I was working and she came, she came home, I came home and she was

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:17</time>
riding so high off of that it was, you know, I was, it was so funny.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:21</time>
It was so

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:09:22</time>
That's, that's awesome.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:09:23</time>
Well, happy birthday in advance.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:25</time>
you.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:26</time>
Thank you.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:26</time>
But I feel like you really do.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:29</time>
You embody those those characters so well that I really do feel like I'm

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:33</time>
interacting with the Marquis de Lafayette.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:35</time>
Even in today's time, we can we can pick up the conversation anywhere.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:39</time>
I think we spoke about your Your tour, when you came back to America and

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:43</time>
toward America later in life, even though that's not the age you were

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:47</time>
portraying, you still, we still talked about that time in Lafayette's life.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:52</time>
And it's just amazing how much, you know, and how quickly you're able to jump

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:56</time>
around and, and have that conversation.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:59</time>
So I think I give you guys a lot of credit for what you do.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:01</time>
You make Colonial Williamsburg for me.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:04</time>
that much more enjoyable and what a great experience being there.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:10:10</time>
Well, I greatly appreciate that.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:10:11</time>
That's kind of you to say.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:10:12</time>
I think all of us in our team in Colonial Williamsburg, who are

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:10:15</time>
part of the Nation Builders, really you know, to use an expression

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:10:19</time>
that we would use, we're all in.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:10:21</time>
You can't do half measures.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:10:22</time>
You have to go all the way and not worry about feeling foolish or silly.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:10:27</time>
But I think most of us, Would be reading books about the 18th and 19th

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:10:32</time>
century anyway, even if we didn't work for Colonial Williamsburg.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:10:36</time>
So there's a genuine passion there and love for history.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:10:39</time>
I often say I didn't choose history.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:10:41</time>
History chose me because there hasn't been a time where I have

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:10:44</time>
not been fascinated with history.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:10:46</time>
You know, it's interesting.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:10:46</time>
I can forget like what I had for breakfast, but you know, when

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:10:50</time>
I wake up in the morning, I'm like, wow, today's the 27th.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:10:53</time>
On this day, Napoleon's troops were crossing the Berenzina river.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:10:57</time>
To get out of Russia during the horrible retreat of 1812.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:11:01</time>
You know, that's what pops into my head.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:11:03</time>
And you know, I'm, I can be forgetful of so many other things, but when

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:11:07</time>
it comes to dates and history and great moments in people's lives

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:11:10</time>
I just don't seem to forget them.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:13</time>
Is there a story that stands out to you like a funny story or something that

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:18</time>
happened that you're that you were like, I'm never going to forget this or being

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:22</time>
at this moment right here and doing this and saying this was there was a particular

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:26</time>
moment for you that really resonates is playing either a Napoleon or Lafayette.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:11:31</time>
Sure.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:11:32</time>
In fact, there's many, but I won't trouble you with too many.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:11:36</time>
One really, really great moment in my life was that in 2006, I was

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:11:41</time>
contacted by a gentleman who lives in Berlin Berlin, Germany, and he wanted

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:11:47</time>
to do a publicity stunt for his his store, which is called Berlin Story.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:11:53</time>
They sell books and...

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:11:55</time>
Paraphernalia that you can get that's reminiscent of Berlin.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:11:59</time>
And so, he flew me over and he, what he wanted me to do was get

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:12:03</time>
on a white horse as Napoleon and march through the Brandenburg gate

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:12:08</time>
200 years after Napoleon did it.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:12:11</time>
And he arranged to have the key to the city given to me.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:12:15</time>
Well, this went viral.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:12:17</time>
And there were over 20, 000 people there.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:12:21</time>
So, I can show, I can show you some pictures, but it was surreal, because

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:12:25</time>
here, I get on this white horse, and I've never been on him before.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:12:29</time>
I don't know if he's gonna go ballistic, throw me, you know, killed

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:12:32</time>
in front of the Brandenburg Gate but it just worked out perfectly.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:12:36</time>
And the, the press was so massive.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:12:38</time>
And everybody was pushed up against this horse.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:12:40</time>
I'm surprised he didn't kick or bite or, but it just worked.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:12:45</time>
And, you know, we, we had 20, 000 Berliners celebrating one of the

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:12:51</time>
worst moments in their history when Napoleon occupied the city.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:12:54</time>
And they gave me the key to this.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:12:55</time>
I had to give it back, of course, but but it was such a surreal

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:13:00</time>
moment that is imprinted in my mind.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:13:02</time>
What, what a.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:13:03</time>
Great, great opportunity.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:13:04</time>
I will never forget that one.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:13:06</time>
But fortunately, with this Napoleon character, or even Lafayette character,

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:13:11</time>
I do get a lot of wonderful opportunities to to have these moments that hopefully,

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:13:17</time>
God willing, I won't ever forget.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:19</time>
Yeah, no, that that's that's an amazing one.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:22</time>
And I can only imagine some of the other opportunities that you've had

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:26</time>
that are just so unique to what you do.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:30</time>
And real quick, before we dive into the movie, I just want to ask about

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:33</time>
the uniforms because they're fantastic.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:36</time>
And so I know for Colonial Williamsburg, they take care of your uniform,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:41</time>
especially the wig Lafayette wears.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:42</time>
You have, like, the best wig makers in the nation who take care of your wig.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:47</time>
For Napoleon, you have a couple different ones, right?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:51</time>
And you keep one overseas, you keep one here in America.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:54</time>
How does that work?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:56</time>
Mm

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:56</time>
hmm.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:13:56</time>
So with the yes for 20 Williamsburg, we have a fantastic team

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:14:01</time>
with our historic clothing department.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:14:04</time>
The wig makers are magnificent.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:14:06</time>
They do such a great job.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:14:08</time>
In fact, I have like three or four different wigs that I use and we just keep

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:14:11</time>
rotating them, but they do a spectacular job historically accurate and everything.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:14:16</time>
And then the clothing is tailor made to me.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:14:19</time>
You know, yet another responsibility for portraying these characters.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:14:23</time>
You know, you need to stay as fit as you possibly can to try to really

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:14:27</time>
look the part because, you know, nobody wants a chubby Lafayette.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:14:32</time>
So maybe, maybe Napoleon in his later years, but I try to keep

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:14:35</time>
the 1805 physique as best I can.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:14:38</time>
But with the Napoleon one, yes, I keep a couple of them in Europe.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:14:41</time>
So I can, I don't have to transport them every time and the

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:14:45</time>
wear and tear that goes with it.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:14:46</time>
And I have a great team over there that they'd house them and then

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:14:50</time>
they will bring them to the event.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:14:51</time>
So for example, going to Austerlitz, I will bring a uniform from the United

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:14:55</time>
States, but my hat is waiting for me.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:14:57</time>
My saddle is waiting for me.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:14:59</time>
My bridal is waiting for me.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:15:00</time>
And my, naturally my sword is waiting for me.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:15:04</time>
I can't bring that on board.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:15:05</time>
But those were all tailor made for me.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:15:08</time>
And, you know, Napoleon had a variety of different uniforms, from the 1790s Italian

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:15:13</time>
campaign to the Egyptian campaign, and then the more iconic Chasseur Impériale,

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:15:18</time>
the green one, or the Grenadier à pied that he wore usually just on Sundays.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:15:24</time>
So, I have all of those and the, of course, iconic Reddingoat, that gray

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:15:28</time>
coat that he, he quite often wore.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:15:31</time>
so Yeah, it takes time to acquire all of those things, to get them tailor made

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:15:36</time>
and you know, sometimes they need to be replaced, the britches, or the waistcoat

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:15:40</time>
or your stock or your boots, you know, I have a pair of Italian boots that cost me

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:15:44</time>
a thousand euros, but they're worth every every penny because they, they are, they

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:15:49</time>
are Napoleon's boots they're magnificent.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:15:51</time>
that's, that's

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:52</time>
amazing.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:52</time>
That's amazing.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:54</time>
And I mean, so we'll talk about the movie, but the costuming in the movie to me

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:59</time>
is all is reminiscent of the costumes.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:02</time>
You wear because you're you look just as good as what they

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:07</time>
had in the Napoleon movie.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:08</time>
And I will, I do think the costumes of Napoleon should win an Oscar.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:13</time>
I mean, they really were amazing.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:15</time>
But when you, when I see you in your full gala, you know, for Lafayette or

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:21</time>
for Napoleon, you look just as good.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:23</time>
It really is impressive to see you in full uniform.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:16:26</time>
Thank you.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:16:27</time>
Yeah, again, it's just it's I think before you even open your mouth on a

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:16:31</time>
stage when you get up on stage, you should already have told the public

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:16:35</time>
who you are and and be as confident as you possibly can in those clothes

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:16:40</time>
and the clothes need to look good.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:16:41</time>
If they're ill fitting, if they're baggy, if they're look like they were

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:16:45</time>
worn by your older, bigger brother.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:16:47</time>
And then you kind of you've lost a little bit of an opportunity to be

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:16:51</time>
that much better as that character.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:53</time>
Well, and we, I know that you just saw the premiere and now you

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:57</time>
were in Quebec for the premiere.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:58</time>
You portrayed

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:17:00</time>
I was in, in Montreal.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:03</time>
Okay.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:03</time>
Okay.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:17:04</time>
Yes.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:17:04</time>
So in the, the, the, the region of Quebec though.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:17:08</time>
So I did, and then I saw it on opening night here in Williamsburg as well.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:17:12</time>
So I've seen it twice.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:17:14</time>
I was going to go last night again, and then I, I told myself not to.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:17:18</time>
So,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:20</time>
Well, we, we were, we had to kind of trade off kid days and just that and

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:24</time>
the other, but I'm going to give, I'm going to give a quick summary for, for our

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:27</time>
listeners, just to kind of remind them.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:33</time>
the movie, , directed by Ridley Scott and starring Joaquin Phoenix

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:37</time>
as Napoleon Bonaparte and Vanessa Kirby as Empress Josephine.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:42</time>
Napoleon is a historical epic that explores the rise and fall of the iconic

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:46</time>
French emperor through the lens of his tumultuous relationship with his wife.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:51</time>
Set against the backdrop of the French Revolution, the film chronicles

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:54</time>
Napoleon's meteoric ascent from a young Corsican artillery officer to

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:59</time>
Emperor of France, showcasing his military genius and political ambition.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:05</time>
However, the film also delves into the complex and often Volatile nature of

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:09</time>
Napoleon's relationship with Josephine, a marriage plagued by infidelity,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:14</time>
jealousy, and the pressures of power.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:17</time>
Napoleon's relentless pursuit, of power and his insatiable desire

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:21</time>
for glory lead him to conquer much of Europe, but his ambitions

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:24</time>
ultimately prove to be his undoing.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:27</time>
As his empire expands, so does seemingly his ego, and he becomes increasingly

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:32</time>
isolated and Somewhat paranoid, at least in the movie, his disastrous 1812 invasion

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:38</time>
of Russia marks a turning point, and he's eventually forced to abdicate and

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:42</time>
exiled to the remote island of Elba.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:45</time>
Despite his downfall, Napoleon remains a figure of fascination and intrigue,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:49</time>
and the film offers a nuanced and compelling portrait of a man who both

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:53</time>
shaped And was shaped by history.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:55</time>
So, , I have to ask, , what did you guys think?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:58</time>
Jen told me a little bit about what she thought, but Mark, what were some of your

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:19:02</time>
first thoughts when you got to see it?

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:19:05</time>
So I can't see the forest through the trees from the get go.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:19:09</time>
I was like, no, no, no!

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:19:14</time>
It but I had to let it go because, you know, even films like The Patriot with

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:19:20</time>
Mel Gibson set during the American Revolution in the Southern Theater of

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:19:23</time>
Operations, I are entertaining, even if they are not historically accurate.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:19:28</time>
So, early on in the film, I had to say, okay, he didn't witness

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:19:32</time>
the execution of Marie Antoinette.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:19:35</time>
Okay.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:19:36</time>
In 1793, he didn't get the command for the artillery at

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:19:40</time>
Toulon in Paris by Paul Barat.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:19:43</time>
There, it just, the, the list kept going on and on and on of these inaccuracies.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:19:48</time>
Even the assaults on too long didn't occur that way.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:19:52</time>
And there was a, a, a, a, a brief moment where I thought that they were

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:19:56</time>
going to get something very obscure.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:19:59</time>
Correct?

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:20:00</time>
When Napoleon goes over the top at the attack at too long, early

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:20:03</time>
in the in the film where he was stabbed in the thigh with a pike.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:20:08</time>
And I see him fighting hand to hand combat and it never happens, so, it

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:20:14</time>
just made me a little bit frustrated.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:20:15</time>
So, my...

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:20:17</time>
My thoughts after seeing it for the first time up in Montreal were

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:20:21</time>
a little bit disbelief that It's such a great story the real story.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:20:26</time>
Why did you want to change it?

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:20:29</time>
I I thought the underlying theme of this film is that it's a love story

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:20:35</time>
It's a love story between napoleon and josephine And I thought vanessa

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:20:40</time>
kirby, did an outstanding job in the role of Josephine really, she showed

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:20:46</time>
the many, many layers of the empress.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:20:49</time>
I don't know if Joachim was directed to portray his Napoleon like that, but

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:20:54</time>
he was a bit two dimensional to me.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:20:56</time>
I, I think, you know, Napoleon has...

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:21:00</time>
There's so much to Napoleon that I don't think you can play him just one

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:21:05</time>
way So, I didn't see that coming out of Joachim, either through direction with

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:21:11</time>
Ridley Scott or out of his own choices.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:21:15</time>
There were certain things that I just thought were absurd, such as

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:21:18</time>
Napoleon leading cavalry charges.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:21:21</time>
At Austerlitz and at Waterloo, which never happened it, it just, I'm not

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:21:26</time>
quite sure why they put that in.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:21:28</time>
I didn't, I don't see how it it moved the narrative forward with

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:21:32</time>
something like that happening.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:21:33</time>
But again, just letting it go.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:21:35</time>
It's, it's fiction based upon history.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:21:38</time>
So why not?

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:21:40</time>
Maybe Joachim wanted to lead a cavalry charge.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:21:42</time>
I don't know.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:43</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:43</time>
And, and that's actually one of the things that when Jen, she

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:45</time>
saw, I think, opening night.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:46</time>
Yep.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:47</time>
And she came home and I was like, okay, yeah, give it to me.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:50</time>
She said it's a bunch of the same stuff that you did, right?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:53</time>
And we, you know, historically they compress things or they put him in,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:57</time>
in spots where he wasn't actually, which is relatively typical of, of some

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:02</time>
history movies that we, we talk about.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:04</time>
But one of the things that she.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:05</time>
That she mentioned specifically the stuck out in my mind that you touched

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:09</time>
on was they didn't really portray how much his, his men loved him, like,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:15</time>
like truly loved him as, as a leader.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:16</time>
Right.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:17</time>
And, and you had, you had talked about that.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:19</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:19</time>
Like, so same thing.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:21</time>
I feel the same way you do mark.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:22</time>
Like I love a good historic.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:24</time>
Movie, even if it's not accurate, if it can really pull me in like gladiator,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:28</time>
like I can feel for the character I I'm all in and I really wanted them to show

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:35</time>
the love of Napoleon because I'm sure you must feel this when you've been

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:38</time>
portraying Napoleon is this his men.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:41</time>
Loved him, right?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:43</time>
And I wanted to see more of his countrymen loving him.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:47</time>
Napoleon did much more than just win wars, right?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:50</time>
Napoleon helped, you know, he, he brought the Rosetta Stone.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:55</time>
He helped with the civil code of France.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:57</time>
Like he was doing so much with the, with the, with the money system in France.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:00</time>
Like he really wanted to build a country for his people and

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:05</time>
people loved him for that.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:07</time>
And I couldn't quite see the love of his people.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:10</time>
I couldn't quite see, you know, even the love story with him and Josephine.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:14</time>
It seemed, I wasn't quite sure, like there's a codependency going on here.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:20</time>
Like it really wasn't interesting where I think trying to tell both stories.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:27</time>
You did, you didn't tell both stories.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:28</time>
Well, you know, you told both stories.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:30</time>
Okay.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:31</time>
I think if you were to try to go with one or the other, maybe you could have

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:34</time>
told one really well, but trying to tell both of them, it didn't quite go as well.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:39</time>
Although I do believe she's the best Josephine I've ever seen on screen.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:23:42</time>
She's quite

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:44</time>
she was, she was, but like you said, like, even in the beginning

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:47</time>
with Marie Antoinette, I was like, okay, is this Marie Antoinette?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:50</time>
Because she did not look like that when she's beheaded, right?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:53</time>
She's been in prison for a year.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:55</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:23:55</time>
her hair

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:55</time>
They cut her hair.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:57</time>
Yeah, she's wearing like just a white shift.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:00</time>
She looks horrible.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:01</time>
And then you don't even have to have Napoleon there.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:04</time>
Like they could have just showed that.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:06</time>
And you could have understood what France is going through.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:10</time>
And so I was like, okay, okay, so he must be going for some kind Nopal You

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:14</time>
know, reaction here with Napoleon there.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:16</time>
But then, and then getting into like, he's running away from his people.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:20</time>
He's afraid of his people.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:22</time>
He's not quite sure how to lead the people.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:24</time>
And I'm like, no, that, that wasn't Napoleon.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:26</time>
And so I felt like that was where.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:29</time>
Joaquin Phoenix was kind of losing the character and they, I think they

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:33</time>
made him look more like a tyrant

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:24:35</time>
absolutely

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:36</time>
and he was very enlightened, like the man loved theater.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:41</time>
He wanted, he, he loves, you know, to be well versed.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:44</time>
He loved literature.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:44</time>
He wanted to educate.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:46</time>
I mean, think about the Louvre.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:49</time>
today is where Napoleon lived.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:51</time>
It's, it's, he brought in all the art.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:53</time>
He brought like, he wanted to have all of that culture in France and

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:58</time>
it made it, I didn't see that from the character that he was playing.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:25:02</time>
Yes.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:25:09</time>
challenge to follow it.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:25:11</time>
Because you start in 1793 and too long yet there was no map that kind

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:25:15</time>
of directed you to where too long is if you don't know, it's on the, I

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:25:19</time>
mean, you, you're Navy people, so you do , but, but you know, it's, it's

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:25:23</time>
a southern port, the Mediterranean.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:25:25</time>
But why was it significant?

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:25:26</time>
They didn't really play that out, him watching, moran, go to the guillotine.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:25:31</time>
Okay, you can put him there.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:25:32</time>
But what purpose is it serving?

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:25:34</time>
I think the purpose it could have served is Napoleon saying, beware the mob,

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:25:39</time>
beware the people and their reactions.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:25:41</time>
They might go to excess.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:25:43</time>
I think that's a great learning moment or teaching moment or

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:25:47</time>
revealing moment for who Napoleon was.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:25:50</time>
You 1795 and he destroys with the what they call the width of grape shot.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:25:55</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:25:56</time>
And he fires upon the royalist mob and then we jump, we skip the entire Italian

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:26:01</time>
campaign, 1796 and 1797, which is the most pivotal time for him and Josephine.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:26:08</time>
You know, he gets married on March the 9th, 1796, and he goes

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:26:12</time>
right after to lead his army.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:26:14</time>
And that's where you could have had that.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:26:16</time>
That building moment to show him and his men you know, it could have been nice to

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:26:21</time>
have a veteran that was with him in 1796.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:26:24</time>
And then we follow him to 1805 at Austerlitz, then we

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:26:26</time>
follow him to Russia in 1812.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:26:28</time>
And then he maybe dies in 1815 that we see this relationship, why they love this guy.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:26:35</time>
pivotal scene when Napoleon returns from Elba and he meets the

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:26:40</time>
soldiers of the Fifth Regiment.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:26:42</time>
They even get it wrong.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:26:44</time>
I think that some of the, the, the script writer didn't catch it, but

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:26:49</time>
he goes, soldiers of my Fifth Army.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:26:51</time>
And then in the next scene, he goes, soldiers of my Fifth Regiment.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:26:55</time>
I mean, do you not know the difference between regiment and army?

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:26:59</time>
My head exploded in the theater.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:27:01</time>
And, and that scene is so pivotal because, you know, Soldiers of the

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:27:04</time>
Fifth and he opens up his reddingoat.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:27:07</time>
Do you recognize me?

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:27:08</time>
I am your emperor.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:27:09</time>
If anyone wishes to kill his emperor, here I am.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:27:13</time>
And it was just floppy.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:27:15</time>
It was poorly done.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:27:16</time>
I, I, it could have been done so much better.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:18</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:19</time>
The, the, as as Jen and I were, were, were chatting a couple days ago.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:22</time>
Like I, I think you pointed out, they could have probably inserted

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:27</time>
a couple, a couple key things that really would've tied it a little

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:31</time>
bit more together, even for me.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:33</time>
Right.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:33</time>
I went in Mm-Hmm.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:34</time>
, you know, with not, not knowing a lot of the history, not, I, I just assumed

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:38</time>
like, okay, they're gonna compress stuff.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:40</time>
You know?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:40</time>
I heard a little bit from Jen.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:42</time>
But even for me when they came to that moment when he returned from from

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:45</time>
Elba, I was like They don't really explain why these people all of a

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:48</time>
sudden just were like, yeah, sure.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:50</time>
We're going to follow you instead, right?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:52</time>
They never really led up to that and they never explained it.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:55</time>
It's just like, yep, I'm just going to say a couple of words

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:58</time>
and sure, you know, let's do it.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:28:00</time>
Napoleon.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:28:01</time>
And and so even for me, right, the, the, the kind of the non history nerd.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:28:05</time>
as we say often on this podcast, even for me, it kind of, it

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:28:08</time>
missed a couple little things.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:28:09</time>
I felt like they were really close.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:28:11</time>
Now, my, my one question to you, you before we started recording, you

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:28:16</time>
kind of mentioned the, the letters between Napoleon and Josephine.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:28:19</time>
Do you think that they got their, their relationship kind of relatively close?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:28:25</time>
Was it that kind of volatile?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:28:27</time>
Cause it, it seemed pretty volatile in the, in the movie.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:28:31</time>
I didn't like with the divorce scene in which is supposed to take

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:28:35</time>
place in 1809, but I think they had it in 1807 when he slapped her.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:28:41</time>
Mm-Hmm.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:28:41</time>
that was a no go.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:28:43</time>
I, I think.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:28:45</time>
When Napoleon met Josephine in 1795 and then married her in 1796, he was the

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:28:51</time>
one who was head over heels for her.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:28:54</time>
She was not so into him.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:28:56</time>
I think it was a marriage of convenience and she, you know, just survived

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:28:59</time>
the, the terror of the revolution.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:29:02</time>
But when he goes on that Italian campaign, these letters that he writes, sometimes

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:29:07</time>
three or four per day sometimes two or three sentences are so passionate.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:29:13</time>
They are so loving.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:29:14</time>
It just, he, he absolutely adores her.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:29:17</time>
And when he, they did get it right when Napoleon was in Egypt

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:29:21</time>
and his friend Junot tells him of Josephine's infidelity with Hippolyte

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:29:26</time>
Charles and, and that crushed him.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:29:29</time>
But all throughout the movie, they made it seem like, Oh, well, Napoleon

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:29:33</time>
is leaving Egypt because he's upset at Josephine with her lover, Hippolyte

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:29:38</time>
Charles, and he has to go back to France.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:29:40</time>
Or when he's on Elba, he's worried about Josephine's health,

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:29:44</time>
so he has to escape from Elba.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:29:46</time>
Those are not the reasons that he did those things.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:29:49</time>
But I, I think...

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:29:51</time>
What they were trying to do was in the, in the scenes of Napoleon

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:29:56</time>
and Josephine together, the, the lovemaking scenes and stuff like that.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:30:00</time>
I think they were trying to show that passion, but it, it really did not come

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:30:04</time>
across as the passion from the letters.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:30:07</time>
It made him look like a, a little bit of a monster with her.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:30:12</time>
And I, I don't think that's, again, it's historical fiction based on fact,

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:30:17</time>
but I don't think he got that right.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:19</time>
yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:20</time>
No, I a hundred percent agree.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:22</time>
It made him look like a brute with her, and he wasn't that way with her.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:25</time>
And she was already, she had already passed by the time he goes to Elba.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:30</time>
And so that was interesting that they had done that.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:32</time>
I was like, oh, that's.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:34</time>
Interesting timeline there.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:35</time>
And like you said, he never would have, he didn't hit her during the divorce.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:38</time>
He never would have done that.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:39</time>
And honestly, the infidelities I try to stress with people, it's, it's French

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:45</time>
and I'm not trying to say that the French people for infidelity is the

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:48</time>
norm, but infidelity is very accepted, especially with Royalty and so much.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:55</time>
So when you think of du Barry, who has such a status place, the, the mistress to

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:01</time>
Louis the 14th, like it's a very, it's, it's a status place to be a, a mistress.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:07</time>
And that's even what Josephine was when he first meets her.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:11</time>
She was a mistress to a political high standing

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:31:15</time>
Paul Berat, yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:16</time>
And so the infidelity, even though he's heartbroken about her

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:20</time>
infidelity, he's also being, you know, He's not being faithful, either.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:26</time>
I think the biggest thing for them was they would never ever

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:29</time>
have a child and together.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:33</time>
And so and I don't know what it was.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:35</time>
People not sure exactly why.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:37</time>
I give a lot of different reasons, especially with Napoleon being gone a lot.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:43</time>
And she's, you know, she's in her thirties when they marry, but And then

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:46</time>
he's gone for long periods of time because they can never conceive a child.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:51</time>
And then he does have some children out of wedlock, so he can have children.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:55</time>
It's that whole idea.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:58</time>
And that is another royal idea that you have to have a legitimate heir.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:02</time>
And because he's emperor, he needs to secure this lineage, this

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:07</time>
lineage with a legitimate heir.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:08</time>
And so that's the heartbreak that he, they are a power couple together.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:14</time>
Even, you know, she has come to really Believe and trust in him.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:18</time>
He has come to believe and trust in her.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:20</time>
She's given him political access, help him climb.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:24</time>
She he's given her protection, helped her climb.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:27</time>
She became an empress of France and they really do appreciate

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:31</time>
who they are to each other.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:32</time>
Plus.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:33</time>
the love, which I love, Mark.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:36</time>
We're all military.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:37</time>
I tell people when you're deployed or when you're away from somebody,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:40</time>
boy, that love will come flowing out.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:32:45</time>
Absolutely,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:46</time>
You appreciate someone so much more when you're not together.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:51</time>
That's why I think those love letters, they're like,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:53</time>
they're the first love letters.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:55</time>
Like everyone in deployment who's writing their love letters home via email.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:59</time>
Look at Napoleon's writing.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:33:03</time>
exactly.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:33:04</time>
nO, I'm, I'm with you on that.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:33:06</time>
That's a, that's so true.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:33:08</time>
The you know, I think it hurts Napoleon so badly when he heard

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:33:12</time>
about the Hippolyte Charles.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:33:14</time>
And I don't think he was ever the same with her, but I do think once.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:33:18</time>
Josephine put aside that lover she didn't have anymore, whereas Napoleon

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:33:23</time>
did in that 1802 time period when he becomes consul for life and then emperor

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:33:30</time>
you know, they have that window of, of, I think, happiness, you know, it's

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:33:34</time>
he, he's just become emperor, he's made her empress you know, he fights

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:33:38</time>
the battle of Austerlitz, his greatest victory, he then defeats the Prussians

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:33:42</time>
at Jena and Auerstadt and takes Berlin.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:33:44</time>
But it was the Polish campaign where he met that, and they didn't even bring her

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:33:48</time>
up Maria Walerka and he had a child with her as well and by that time, I think

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:33:54</time>
Napoleon realized that Josephine was incapable of having any more children

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:33:58</time>
and for the purpose of, yeah, the, the lineage he was going to have to

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:34:02</time>
marry somebody who could have a child.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:34:05</time>
But, you know, everything went downhill after that.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:34:08</time>
It's interesting to note because they used to call Josephine Our Lady of Victories.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:34:12</time>
The soldiers used to call her that.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:34:14</time>
And you know, he did have his meteoric rise from 1795

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:34:18</time>
till he divorces her in 1809.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:34:21</time>
And after 1809, things just start to fall apart.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:34:25</time>
And it's I've often wondered about that, you know, the The, the luck that Josephine

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:34:30</time>
brought with Napoleon because, you know, 1809 campaign did not go terribly

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:34:35</time>
well, Spain 1810 11 was not going well, 1812 goes without saying, 1813 14 15.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:34:43</time>
Things just really went downhill.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:34:45</time>
So it's, it's, I think it's also telling, you know, Napoleon's last words for

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:34:50</time>
France l'armée, tête l'armée, Josephine.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:34:53</time>
Last word he said, Josephine.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:34:55</time>
I think that really speaks volumes.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:58</time>
I love, I love hearing you say that stuff in French.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:02</time>
Okay.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:02</time>
So, and I agree with you that, let's touch one more thing, what they, we

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:06</time>
could, they could have done better.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:07</time>
Let's then, let's go to what they did right.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:08</time>
They should have had a map, Mark.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:10</time>
They should have had a map to show Napoleon's empire.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:14</time>
And then, like, they should have because I think that's impressive, too.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:18</time>
We should have been able to see the scale, right?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:20</time>
Like what he's doing across Europe.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:22</time>
And

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:35:23</time>
So how many people know where Austerlitz is?

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:35:26</time>
You know, I mean, really, do people know it's in the Czech Republic?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:35:30</time>
exactly.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:35:32</time>
and there was no Czech Republic in the time period of Napoleon.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:35:35</time>
It's all part of Moravia or Bohemia part of the Austrian Empire.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:35:39</time>
So I, I think, yeah, just for context, you know, crawl, walk, run.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:35:42</time>
Let's make it simple for everybody who's watching this, from the

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:35:46</time>
Napoleonic scholar to the guy who's never heard of Napoleon before.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:35:49</time>
Yeah,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:50</time>
absolutely.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:51</time>
So what did they get right?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:53</time>
What was what?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:54</time>
Something you're like, this is awesome.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:56</time>
Like, you know, I talked a little bit about the costumes, but I mean, those

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:36:00</time>
fight scenes, Mark, like, and I wanted to ask you about the horse when he

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:36:03</time>
gets the cannonball out of the horse,

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:36:05</time>
all.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:36:06</time>
but did that really happen?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:36:08</time>
I was like, I have to ask Mark about this.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:36:10</time>
No, I mean, he had, he, he had several horses killed from under him.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:36:14</time>
But I, I'd never seen that before.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:36:17</time>
That was that was all Hollywood at its best.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:36:19</time>
And then him reaching his hand to pull out, it looked like it

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:36:22</time>
was a three pounder, maybe a, I think, yeah, it was a three pounder

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:36:25</time>
that he pulls out of the horse.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:36:27</time>
That was, that was interesting.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:36:28</time>
An interesting choice.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:36:30</time>
So the battle scenes were not accurate.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:36:33</time>
So, Austerlitz was fascinating, because I've been to that battlefield more than

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:36:41</time>
any other battlefield in, in my life, and you know, I've gone over the terrain,

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:36:46</time>
and that's okay if you don't want to get the terrain, but the, the key problem

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:36:49</time>
with the battle scenes is that, They kept putting up these French tents.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:36:54</time>
Now, Napoleon had a campaign tent that he would stay in periodically

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:36:58</time>
as they were on the march.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:36:59</time>
And some of the, yeah, there was a whole layout of tents and stuff like that.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:37:03</time>
But the tents would never be found, like, right on the battle lines.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:37:07</time>
And that seems to be what Ridley Scott did with both Austerlitz

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:37:12</time>
Borodino in Russia, and with Waterloo.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:37:15</time>
And also, the men, like, creating these entrenchments, Yes, in some Napoleonic

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:37:20</time>
battles, they did put up entrenchments, the use of the gabions, and defense works,

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:37:26</time>
and earthworks, and things like that but not for Austerlitz, uh, Austerlitz

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:37:32</time>
was a, it's a massive battlefield, and it was a battle of maneuver.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:37:37</time>
And then a battle of annihilation at the end.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:37:39</time>
And I just don't think they, you know, the whole idea with the lakes

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:37:44</time>
and him firing upon the lakes.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:37:45</time>
Yes, those lakes are in the southern portion of the battlefield.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:37:49</time>
They have since been drained and an archaeological dig was done in which

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:37:54</time>
they unearthed like three bodies.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:37:57</time>
Three.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:37:58</time>
One, two, three.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:37:59</time>
And I think of the skeletal remains of a horse.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:38:02</time>
So, were those pawns destroyed by canon?

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:38:06</time>
Probably, during the battle.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:38:08</time>
But did they inflict the carnage that the movie showed?

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:38:10</time>
No, no they did not.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:38:13</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:38:13</time>
Interesting.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:38:14</time>
I mean, the one thing I will say, right, kind of being, you know, even for our

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:38:17</time>
YouTube channel for, for Watch With Walk With History, you know, kind of

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:38:20</time>
being the guy behind the scenes and, you know, trying my hand at, at, at, you

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:38:24</time>
know, Hobbyist cinematography, right?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:38:28</time>
What I can teach myself.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:38:29</time>
I did appreciate that.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:38:30</time>
I mean, just the kind of the grand scale.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:38:32</time>
That's why I really made the effort to go see it in the theater.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:38:35</time>
This is absolutely like a ghost.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:38:37</time>
Go see it in the theater type of movie.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:38:39</time>
I love.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:38:40</time>
I do love those.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:38:42</time>
The grandiose feel of those battle scenes, whether or not they're accurate.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:38:46</time>
I had no idea, right?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:38:48</time>
but I, but I did appreciate him just purely from kind of like a Hollywood

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:38:52</time>
perspective of getting the scale and really honestly, like some of the

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:38:57</time>
carnage, you know, and one of the things that I was actually curious

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:39:00</time>
about was some of the battle tactics.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:39:02</time>
At the end when they were doing the horse charge, and then I think it was the

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:39:08</time>
Was it the British that all of a sudden they, they kind of closed ranks around

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:39:11</time>
and the horses were running around them?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:39:13</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:39:13</time>
Is, is that, is that an actual tactic?

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:39:15</time>
That's an actual tactic, and that was what was done at the battlefield

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:39:19</time>
of Waterloo, but it's interesting to note that in the film, the British come

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:39:24</time>
out, out of their entrenchments to form Square, where the reality, if they had

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:39:29</time>
those entrenchments, they would probably be far safer In the entrenchments

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:39:34</time>
fending off cavalry then coming out dramatically and forming squares.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:39:38</time>
So the, the British did form square at Waterloo and the French

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:39:42</time>
cavalry charged like 11 times and they didn't break the squares.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:39:47</time>
So it was a, it was a pivotal moment in the battle.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:39:49</time>
And the reason the cavalry charged was because Wellington, the Duke of

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:39:54</time>
Wellington, who commanded the British forces, he actually told his entire

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:39:58</time>
battle line to do an about face and to fall back a hundred paces.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:40:03</time>
The French, Napoleon was ill during the Battle of Waterloo, and he left it to

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:40:07</time>
one of his subordinates Marshal Ney, and when Ney saw them Falling back.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:40:12</time>
He felt they were in full retreat, so he immediately ordered the cavalry charge

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:40:16</time>
to pursue, which is the proper thing to do when you see an enemy retreating.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:40:21</time>
You pursue them without letting them regroup or reform.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:40:24</time>
That's one of the great roles of cavalry.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:40:26</time>
And but it turns out that they were just retiring because they were getting such

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:40:30</time>
a pounding from the French artillery.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:40:33</time>
And then they were able to successfully form squares and

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:40:35</time>
fend off the French cavalry.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:40:37</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:40:38</time>
And to me, that's, that's just something that kind of stuck out to me, you know,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:40:41</time>
because it was just something I hadn't seen before and I wondered if that,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:40:45</time>
that was one of the accurate things.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:40:47</time>
So that's, that's actually kind of pretty neat to know.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:40:48</time>
Well, I had read that Ripley, Ripley Scott the reason why he fires

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:40:52</time>
the cannons onto the pyramids that never happened is he just wanted to portray.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:40:57</time>
that Napoleon took Egypt.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:40:59</time>
And I'm like, okay, you probably could have portrayed that with him

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:41:02</time>
show finding the Rosetta stone.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:41:04</time>
Here you go.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:41:05</time>
I took Egypt.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:41:06</time>
I found the Rosetta stone.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:41:07</time>
So without doing the cannons, but again, cinematography and I read

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:41:12</time>
with the men dying in the water.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:41:15</time>
And so dramatically you wanted to show how Napoleon had no regard for life and

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:41:21</time>
even the right and so and even at the end of the movie when they talk about all the

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:41:25</time>
lives lost in all the battles that was really what we've got wanted to hit you

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:41:30</time>
with was how much Napoleon had no regard for his soldiers lives and I'm like,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:41:36</time>
like,

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:41:38</time>
Yeah, he didn't explain that terribly well.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:41:40</time>
And I think those statistics were taken out of context to you know, the whole

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:41:44</time>
idea of him firing upon the pyramids.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:41:47</time>
I mean, whatever.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:41:48</time>
It's dramatic effect.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:41:49</time>
It seemed like he was bored.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:41:51</time>
It would walk in Phoenix's portrayal of Napoleon in that particular scene

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:41:55</time>
as the Mamelukes and the Ottomans were, like, doing their rallying to,

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:42:00</time>
to, about to fight the French, and then he fires the, at the top of the

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:42:04</time>
pyramids, and they collapse on the, the Mamelukes and, and kill some of them.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:42:08</time>
Yeah, they, they forget to tell you that he brought 150 people to study Egypt.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:42:14</time>
It is the foundation for Egyptology.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:42:16</time>
You've already brought up the Rosetta Stone.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:42:18</time>
Which will be deciphered by a Frenchman, Champollion.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:42:21</time>
And you know, so many discoveries were made on that Egyptian campaign.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:42:26</time>
And he didn't have to bring these 150 savants to do the study, but he

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:42:29</time>
did because he was an enlightened man who wanted to discover more

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:42:33</time>
about this forgotten civilization.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:42:36</time>
And thanks to that we now know the history of the, of ancient

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:42:40</time>
Egypt and all that occurred.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:42:41</time>
We've deciphered the hieroglyphs.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:42:44</time>
And you know, a lot of these great pieces from antiquity and Egypt are

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:42:48</time>
for us to, to learn about I did like the scene where they uncover the

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:42:53</time>
sarcophagus and Napoleon puts the hat.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:42:56</time>
There is a lithograph of Napoleon doing that and he's staring with his arms like

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:43:02</time>
this and he's staring, I think maybe.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:43:05</time>
You know, without the caption there, it doesn't say anything, but I think

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:43:09</time>
maybe he's reflecting upon history that I, too, will be like this,

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:43:14</time>
this mummy here thousands of years.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:43:17</time>
Will I be remembered?

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:43:18</time>
Will I be forgotten?

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:43:19</time>
What?

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:43:20</time>
impact will I have?

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:43:22</time>
So I really enjoyed that scene a tremendous amount.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:43:26</time>
I did also like to see the, the gentleman of color who was one of

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:43:31</time>
his generals, because that's true.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:43:33</time>
You had Mathieu Dumas, one of his cavalry commanders who was there, so I'm glad

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:43:38</time>
they, they showed him So, you know that transition in uniforms from the the french

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:43:43</time>
revolutionary uniform, which was the blue with the gold embroidery up upon the the

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:43:49</time>
red collar and cuffs that was nicely done.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:43:52</time>
They showed that transition, through time.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:43:54</time>
They also showed the transition with his hair You know, he did keep long

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:43:58</time>
hair until he comes back for the coup and then he cuts it and they call him

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:44:03</time>
the petit tendu the little shaven one So, but he cuts it in that Roman style,

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:44:11</time>
which is so very popular allotitis, as they called it in that time period.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:44:16</time>
So, yeah, those things looked good.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:44:19</time>
The one scene with Josephine's son, Eugène de Beauharnais wanting to get his father's

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:44:24</time>
saber back There's two versions to that.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:44:26</time>
One is he's bringing his father's saber to give to to Napoleon.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:44:31</time>
The other, obviously in this movie, he's taking it back, but, but the challenge

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:44:36</time>
of all those sabers in that room.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:44:39</time>
The one they pick is actually an 1813 model and it was supposed to be 1794.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:44:46</time>
that's funny.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:44:47</time>
I mean, I think I know that it may be 10 other guys know that, but I was

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:44:51</time>
like, Oh my gosh, of the one you picked, I actually have a reproduction of it.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:44:56</time>
I was like, wow.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:44:58</time>
That's hilarious.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:44:58</time>
Well, it's just like whenever Jen watches, Navy, \ , movies, and there's

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:45:02</time>
a helicopter in there, she's, she'll always say, like, a helicopter wouldn't

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:45:05</time>
do that, or they wouldn't do that.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:45:06</time>
It's like, Jen.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:45:07</time>
It's a movie.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:45:08</time>
I give it up.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:45:10</time>
I know it's hard, but then like you think you just enjoy it for

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:45:14</time>
the, for the cinematic version of it.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:45:16</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:45:16</time>
So, okay, Mark, overall, out of four stars?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:45:21</time>
, is it like a three star?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:45:22</time>
Is it a two star?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:45:23</time>
What, what are you thinking?

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:45:25</time>
So if we're going to use your four star rating system

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:45:30</time>
I'm going to give it one

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:45:31</time>
Oh

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:45:32</time>
my gosh.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:45:32</time>
Okay.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:45:33</time>
All right.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:45:33</time>
Okay.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:45:33</time>
So what is your best depiction of Napoleon then?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:45:36</time>
If you could say,

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:45:37</time>
Oh,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:45:38</time>
could watch a movie.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:45:40</time>
There are several and in fact, Le Figaro magazine, newspaper one

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:45:46</time>
of the biggest ones in France did a listing of the hundred best Napoleons

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:45:51</time>
in film and I, I don't want to, I don't want to brag, but I made number 27,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:45:57</time>
All right.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:45:57</time>
In, in my role with Vincent Castle in the, the Emperor of Paris

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:46:02</time>
and and Joaquin Phoenix was 28.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:46:10</time>
There we go.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:46:11</time>
That's

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:46:12</time>
There you go.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:46:13</time>
little feather in your cap there.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:46:15</time>
Exactly.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:46:16</time>
So of the Napoleon films, my favorite film of all time is the

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:46:21</time>
1927 silent film called Napoleon.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:46:26</time>
And that was directed by Abel Gance, and it was starring a

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:46:30</time>
man named Albert Dieudonné.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:46:33</time>
And he really just nails that early Napoleon, that 17 from Toulon

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:46:39</time>
to the, the royalist uprising in 95 to the Italian campaign.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:46:44</time>
That's really where it ends, but wow.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:46:47</time>
He looks the part very well.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:46:49</time>
There's also.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:46:49</time>
I'm sorry, is that American made?

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:46:52</time>
Well, Francis Ford Coppola remastered it, because, again, a

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:46:56</time>
1927 silent film, he remastered it in, I think, 1981 or 1983.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:47:03</time>
It's being worked on again, and I think they're going to do another theatrical

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:47:07</time>
release which would be wonderful, but when that's going to come, I don't know.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:47:11</time>
But that that's I have it on VHS that nobody's put it on DVD, which

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:47:16</time>
is just very bizarre But there's also another film directed by Abel Gance.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:47:21</time>
And it's called Austerlitz and it's all about that battle and it stars Pierre

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:47:26</time>
Mondy who does a stellar performance as napoleon another napoleon that I

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:47:32</time>
like is the 1956 war and peace with audrey Burn and Henry Fonda, and

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:47:38</time>
that Napoleon is a Czech actor named Herbert Lohm who I think nails it.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:47:43</time>
There's, of course, crowd favorites like Rod Steiger in the 1970 movie called

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:47:49</time>
Waterloo, which is all about that battle.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:47:51</time>
That's incre Scott, if you want to see what the squares actually look like and

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:47:56</time>
how the battle actually unfolded, and I do have it on DVD if you'd like to borrow

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:48:00</time>
that It's it's magnificent though Rod Steiger doesn't really look so much like

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:48:06</time>
Napoleon, I think he still gave, gave Napoleon the credit that was due him, and

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:48:12</time>
there's of course Napoleon and Josephine, a love story which was made for television

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:48:17</time>
back in 19 1987, Armand Assante kills it.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:48:21</time>
He's awesome.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:48:23</time>
And Jacqueline Bissette as Josephine, she does a super job.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:48:27</time>
So yeah, there's a few out there.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:48:30</time>
And then, you know, there's a few bad ones

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:48:33</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:48:33</time>
So one star.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:48:34</time>
Okay.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:48:35</time>
So I think, you know, hearing you say one star, I, I think I, I'm,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:48:39</time>
I was going to do two, but I'm thinking I'm one and a half now.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:48:43</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:48:43</time>
How about you, Scott?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:48:44</time>
How

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:48:44</time>
do you feel?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:48:45</time>
So, you know, four, four stars doesn't compute to me.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:48:47</time>
I'm used to a five star scale, but if we're going to go with four stars, I'll

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:48:51</time>
say two just because I, I kind of just, you know, for the general, the average

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:48:55</time>
movie movie go or the cinematography.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:48:58</time>
And even though.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:49:00</time>
To me, again, not kind of knowing the history or the facts or kind of what was

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:49:05</time>
right or what was wrong, like there was stuff that was just, it just felt like it

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:49:09</time>
was missing that tying the story together.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:49:12</time>
But I, I did enjoy just kind of the representation of, of the, of the

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:49:16</time>
era, right, of showing Napoleon the costumes and kind of the battles

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:49:20</time>
and a lot of that stuff was just.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:49:22</time>
Again, the pure Hollywood movie kind of bigness of it, you know,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:49:27</time>
for lack of a more sophisticated way to describe a movie.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:49:31</time>
I just, I did enjoy

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:49:32</time>
that aspect of it.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:49:33</time>
I just missed the mark.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:49:33</time>
And honestly, in Mark, you'll probably, he doesn't even talk with a French accent.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:49:38</time>
It's like, Hey, what's up?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:49:40</time>
I'm Napoleon.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:49:41</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:49:47</time>
Well, we want to.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:49:47</time>
you know what?

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:49:48</time>
You know, maybe we can revisit this scaling system because supposedly Apple

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:49:53</time>
TV's gonna put out a four hour version of

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:49:56</time>
Oh,

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:49:57</time>
Have you heard about that?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:49:58</time>
The director's

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:49:59</time>
cut.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:49:59</time>
Oh, are

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:50:00</time>
the director's cut, which maybe will be more inclusive

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:50:03</time>
to help the narrative along.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:50:05</time>
And, you know, maybe we will see him talking about his reforms.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:50:09</time>
The, the code Seville or the code, the creation of the B De France

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:50:13</time>
institutes for higher learning.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:50:15</time>
An eye out for that.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:50:16</time>
All those things would be interesting.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:50:18</time>
And maybe the Italian campaign, that would be nice.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:50:20</time>
Maybe some of those love letters, because that's when he wrote

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:50:23</time>
all of those love letters.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:50:24</time>
Maybe the Marengo campaign of 1800, after he gets back from Egypt and the

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:50:29</time>
Austrians had taken back all that he had conquered in 1796 and 97 maybe

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:50:34</time>
the the The reasoning behind the why Austerlitz was fought, you know, throwing

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:50:40</time>
out the Navy that nobody talked about Trafalgar or you know, that was really

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:50:45</time>
the catalyst that brought Napoleon from the coast to invade England to go

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:50:50</time>
inland into Eastern Europe to fight the Austrians and the Russians at Austerlitz.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:50:55</time>
So, yeah, I mean, it would be nice if if, you know, he could introduce

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:50:59</time>
some of those different things to, to help with the narrative.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:51:03</time>
I think that would be very helpful for a guest or someone watching that doesn't

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:51:08</time>
really know too much about Napoleon.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:51:10</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:51:10</time>
We'll have to revisit that.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:51:11</time>
Well, hopefully,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:51:11</time>
if he listens to this podcast before he does his cut, he can edit

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:51:16</time>
all of that.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:51:17</time>
I'm sure it's

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:51:18</time>
Well, if Ridley is watching this I love Ridley Scott.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:51:23</time>
I think he's a brilliant director.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:51:25</time>
The Duelists is his first major motion picture that came out in 1977.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:51:31</time>
Still one of my favorites based on a Joseph Conrad short story called The Duel.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:51:35</time>
I love Gladiator.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:51:37</time>
I love Kingdom of Heaven.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:51:39</time>
Black Hawk Down.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:51:40</time>
I mean, fantastic.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:51:43</time>
I, I, I certainly don't want Ridley to hate me for not, for only giving

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:51:49</time>
him one star, and as far as Joaquin Phoenix you know, he doesn't need

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:51:53</time>
my approval or not, he's a great actor, he's an Academy Award winner.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:51:58</time>
You know, just, again, I can't see the forest through the trees.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:52:01</time>
I, I talk about Napoleon every single day.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:52:05</time>
I've got his books all around me.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:52:06</time>
So, I, I think I'm just too involved there.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:52:09</time>
But if Vanessa Kirby is watching she was fabulous.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:52:15</time>
I think a lot of people, you know, and again, I don't go online and read

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:52:19</time>
like movie reviews and all that stuff.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:52:20</time>
But I think a lot of people will kind of agree with that general sentiment.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:52:23</time>
I mean, Joaquin phoenix, nobody's gonna argue that, the director

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:52:28</time>
and the actors are all incredible.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:52:30</time>
. But I do think that she actually, I think she stole the show,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:52:34</time>
between the larger than life characters that were in this movie.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:52:37</time>
She, , even to me again, not knowing this, she was incredible.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:52:41</time>
She played all the parts, all the different stages , very well.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:52:44</time>
, and to me, honestly, her character to me.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:52:47</time>
Probably felt the most believable.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:52:49</time>
Yes,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:52:49</time>
And that my friends wraps up our deep dive into Ridley Scott's epic portrayal

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:52:55</time>
of Napoleon Bonaparte It's a film that like its protagonist is ambitious complex

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:53:00</time>
and bound to spark debate We've, we've sifted through the historical facts

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:53:06</time>
and cinematic flourishes, explored the director's vision, and delved into

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:53:10</time>
the nuances of Napoleon's character.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:53:13</time>
Now whether you're a history buff or a film enthusiast or simply captivated

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:53:17</time>
by larger than life figures, we hope This episode is shed some light on

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:53:21</time>
this captivating portrayal of one of history's most fascinating figures.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:53:25</time>
We encourage you to continue the conversation.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:53:28</time>
Let us know in the comments on YouTube, and let us know what

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:53:30</time>
you thought about the movie.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:53:31</time>
Now, Mark, for those who might want to find you or your work, is there a kind of

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:53:36</time>
a best place for people to kind of either reach out to you or find you online?

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:53:41</time>
Absolutely.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:53:42</time>
So, at Colonial Williamsburg, if you'd like to see the Marquis de Lafayette,

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:53:46</time>
we have our schedule online, so you can find out when I'm doing what we call

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:53:49</time>
public audiences or when I'm in town.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:53:52</time>
I'm usually in town five days a week.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:53:54</time>
But this weekend coming up, if you are in the Czech Republic in

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:53:58</time>
the southeastern corner by Brno, I will be Napoleon at the Battle of

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:54:02</time>
Austerlitz, his greatest victory.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:54:06</time>
So come out, turn out for that.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:54:08</time>
You can follow me on Instagram Napoleon in America.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:54:12</time>
And I put up all pictures and videos of the different

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:54:16</time>
things that I do in character.

<cite>Mark:</cite>
<time>00:54:18</time>
So look for me there, I.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:54:20</time>
Yeah, well, thank you so much again for joining us, Mark, and for

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:54:22</time>
those listening, remember to reach out to us at our website, talkwithhistory.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:54:26</time>
com, but more importantly, if you know someone else that might enjoy

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:54:29</time>
this podcast, please share it with them, especially if you think today's

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:54:32</time>
Napoleon topic would interest a friend, even if they haven't seen

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:54:36</time>
the movie or if they have, especially if they have seen the movie, you

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:54:39</time>
got to send this episode to them.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:54:40</time>
Shoot them a text, tell them to look us up.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:54:42</time>
We rely on you, our community, to grow, and we appreciate you all.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:54:46</time>
Every day.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:54:46</time>
We'll talk to you next time.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:54:48</time>
Thank you.

The Story