Lincoln Presidential Museum | Historic Travel Guide to Springfield's Must-See - Talk With History

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:00</time>
So I'm going to lead off with another bad joke.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:00:01</time>
Oh goodness, did we get a review?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:00:03</time>
Is it a Lincoln joke?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:00:04</time>
Give me your best Lincoln joke.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:07</time>
Oh, this is definitely not my best.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:08</time>
This was the first super lame dad joke I could find on the internet.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:12</time>
Something to do with Lincoln logs or something?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:13</time>
So while walking to the Capitol building with some members of

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:18</time>
Congress, Lincoln picked up a crumpled piece of paper off the ground and

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:23</time>
he dusted off the note, read it, laughed to himself, and that was it.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:29</time>
One of the men he was walking with.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:32</time>
Asked Lincoln to share the humorous contents with the

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:34</time>
group and Lincoln resisted.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:37</time>
He just said I'm not one to tell dirty jokes

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:43</time>
That's it.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:44</time>
I did not say I did not promise that that was gonna be a good joke.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:48</time>
It was a bad joke

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:00</time>
Welcome to top of history.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:03</time>
I'm your host Scott here with my wife and historian Jen.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:05</time>
Hello On this podcast, we give you insights to our history inspired,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:09</time>
world travels, YouTube channel journey and examine history

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:12</time>
through deeper conversations with the curious, the explorers, and

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:15</time>
the history lovers out there.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:19</time>
But, this is Bad Jokes, Good Reviews.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:22</time>
This segment, we didn't get another good review.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:25</time>
However, comma, hopefully the bad joke will prompt someone to leave

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:29</time>
us a good review because that's, that's what we're asking for.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:36</time>
Jen, uh...

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:37</time>
We're kind of coming back from the West.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:39</time>
We came back from Little Bighorn, we came back from Denver, and Wyoming,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:47</time>
and all that stuff, and on our way back across the country, we wanted to stop

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:51</time>
at, uh, some place that had been highly recommended to us by a friend of ours,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:55</time>
um, It, this was Abraham Lincoln's kind of presidential library museum.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:59</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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Springfield, Illinois.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:01</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:02</time>
We stopped in Springfield and went to the, decided to go to the

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:06</time>
museum and we were pretty blown away by what we experienced there.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:02:12</time>
So, the museum and library, they're right beside each other.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:02:18</time>
They're right in downtown Springfield, Illinois.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:02:20</time>
The museum is on, they're both on 6th Street and they're across the street.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:02:24</time>
So you have 212 6th and 112 6th and it's the museum.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:02:29</time>
Library.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:02:31</time>
And we thought, Oh, this will be neat.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:02:33</time>
We'll go in.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:02:34</time>
We'll see the museum.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:02:35</time>
It's a presidential museum.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:02:36</time>
And we've been to a couple of presidential museums.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:02:38</time>
So we kind of knew what to expect along that line.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:02:42</time>
But when we walked into this museum, it felt more like Disney.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:02:48</time>
Like when you go see the Hall of Presidents,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:51</time>
it literally felt like you had walked into a section of Disneyland or

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:56</time>
Disney World, you know, pick your poison.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:57</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:58</time>
And we kind of walked in and like, we're like, oh my goodness, like,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:03:01</time>
what are we, what are we walking into

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:03:03</time>
here?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:03:03</time>
And then they're like, you want to watch the movie first?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:03:06</time>
And we're like, okay, I guess, cause sometimes we don't watch the movie if

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:03:09</time>
we've done the research before we go.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:03:11</time>
But you want to watch the movie here because it is

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:03:14</time>
very much like a Disney ride.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:03:17</time>
It's like taking you on the story.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:03:19</time>
It felt like if anybody growing up in the Los Angeles area,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:03:23</time>
like I did, oh, Captain EO with Michael Jackson way back in the day.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:03:27</time>
It felt like that with the hall of presidents.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:03:30</time>
Yes, and we couldn't show it on the video So if you're if you watch the video, of

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:03:35</time>
course, it'll be in the show notes of this podcast episode You when you come in

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:03:39</time>
it's kind of off to the right But you're not allowed to film or take pictures do

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:03:42</time>
any any of that stuff in there They do show some clips of it on the website.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:03:46</time>
Yeah, so that's kind of what that is I walked out of there and I was

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:03:51</time>
like, I turned to you and I was like, I don't know how they did that.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:03:54</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:03:55</time>
It's, it's like you have a narrator who comes out and tells you

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:00</time>
that a real person, a real person who talks about Lincoln and, and Lincoln's

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:05</time>
life, but mostly like Lincoln's.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:08</time>
Legacy.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:08</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:09</time>
And like his papers and basically the stuff you're going to find at the library

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:14</time>
and things you want to preserve about Lincoln's life and that there's still

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:18</time>
things out there about Lincoln's life.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:20</time>
They're still finding stuff today and and that the office is pretty

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:24</time>
much left the way Lincoln left it.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:27</time>
You know, they kind of recreated the office there.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:29</time>
And then you learn that the narrator was someone who died in the Civil War.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:33</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:33</time>
And

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:04:34</time>
we, so we won't spoil the end of it, but it, it, it's seriously

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:04:38</time>
like the kids walked out and they had huge smiles on their faces.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:04:41</time>
I walked out, I was like, I honestly don't know how they, it was, it was magic.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:04:45</time>
It was

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:45</time>
so cool.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:46</time>
The kids didn't know how they did it either.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:48</time>
It really, so if you go.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:50</time>
You're going to be like, and it does set the stage for the rest of the

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:54</time>
story as you walk through the museum.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:56</time>
So really do not miss the movie if you go to the Lincoln Museum.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:10</time>
So what is the Lincoln Museum and why is it in Springfield, Illinois?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:13</time>
You know, Lincoln's not born in Illinois.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:16</time>
That's right.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:16</time>
He's born in Kentucky.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:17</time>
He's born in Kentucky.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:18</time>
He's born in Kentucky, February 12th, 1809.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:21</time>
And, but his life, his family is very much like these homesteaders.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:27</time>
Trying to make their way and we're actually they stay kind of his

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:32</time>
grandparents actually start in Cumberland Gap So we're kind of in the same area.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:36</time>
Oh, yeah

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:05:38</time>
For those listening Jen and I are actually as we record

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:05:41</time>
this we are in the western tip of Virginia We are in Big Stone Gap.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:05:46</time>
Yes, which is a fun little thing and we've got videos coming out on that But yes,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:05:50</time>
he does make his way from Kentucky up to

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:52</time>
Illinois up to Illinois.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:54</time>
And so it's like he goes from Kentucky to He's self taught.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:58</time>
He, you know, his, his, he's the second child born.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:01</time>
His mother dies when he's young.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:05</time>
He helps, you know, bury his mother.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:07</time>
His father quickly remarries.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:09</time>
He has a very good relationship with his stepmother.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:11</time>
But then his sister dies in childbirth.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:13</time>
So he has a lot of loss early on.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:15</time>
And he really does, like, have to make, make his own way in the world.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:20</time>
And so he'll go to like New Orleans.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:22</time>
He will.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:23</time>
And we depict that in the museum.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:26</time>
They really start with like two sides of Lincoln's life.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:30</time>
They do like his life before the presidency and then during the presidency.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:34</time>
And one of the very first things you're going to walk into is kind of

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:36</time>
a recreation of the Lincoln log cabin.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:39</time>
Yeah,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:06:39</time>
that was, it was really, and you literally walk inside.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:06:43</time>
of this log cabin and feels so Disney.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:46</time>
It's like Disney Imagineers.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:47</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:47</time>
It's got the mannequins.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:49</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:50</time>
And so you see young Lincoln reading by the fire and self taught and what

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:55</time>
his life was like on the frontier.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:57</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:58</time>
With, you know, in a small one room log cabin where he probably slept

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:03</time>
in the loft with his sister and then his parents slept in the main room.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:07</time>
Downstairs, but by night he would sit by the fire and read and so you get to walk

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:12</time>
in and see him do that You get to be in the presence of that which is super cool

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:17</time>
Yeah, and then it'll kind of take you as he kind of he leaves his family After

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:23</time>
his sister passes, he tries to make his way As a clerk he learns business and

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:29</time>
and they do kind of And part of that as well, they do show what

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:35</time>
a slave auction would look like.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:36</time>
So

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:37</time>
when he goes to New Orleans, right?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:38</time>
And they, they show as, cause he did some boat piloting along the Mississippi and

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:45</time>
he would have gone down to New Orleans and he would have seen enslaved auctions

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:49</time>
in New Orleans and they, they depict one.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:51</time>
So again, with the whole kind of imagineer full mannequin.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:55</time>
Uh, and they do a very graphic scene of a mother being torn

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:58</time>
away from a husband and a child.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:00</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:00</time>
So basically you're showing the break up of a family and the trauma of that.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:04</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:04</time>
And the, and the,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:08:05</time>
it's interesting.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:08:06</time>
It, it felt to me like they showed that it was basically kind of right

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:08:10</time>
after the, the log cabin portion.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:08:12</time>
So relatively early in his young adulthood, he experienced this and,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:08:17</time>
and they had a quote from him basically saying like he could never really

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:08:22</time>
do that or hit a comment on that.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:24</time>
Yeah, he could never understand how a democracy could

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:27</time>
be built on something like that.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:29</time>
Right.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:29</time>
So basically what it's showing you is he's young, he's impressionable,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:39</time>
he's learning to make his way in the world, and he's basically

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:42</time>
becoming more world, worldly.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:44</time>
Right.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:45</time>
And so he's seeing things that he hadn't seen before on the frontier.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:49</time>
Um, parents were not of means not enslavers.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:52</time>
So, but he's seeing this for the first time and then he it's

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:55</time>
making an impression on him.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:57</time>
So when he goes into business and he starts to learn bookkeeping and store shop

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:02</time>
keeping, that's when he really gets into the law and starts reading the law book.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:06</time>
And from there, he's going to become a lawyer, a self made lawyer.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:11</time>
And, uh, and that's when he's going to eventually get to Springfield, Illinois.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:15</time>
He goes to a clerk in Springfield, Illinois, and he

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:20</time>
really likes the shop there.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:23</time>
He moves upstairs and starts to practice law in Springfield, Illinois.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:28</time>
And that's why the presidential library is there because the longest span of his

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:32</time>
life is in Springfield, Illinois from 1837 to 1861 when he moves to the White House.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:38</time>
So that is why his presidential library is there.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:41</time>
That's where his home is.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:43</time>
And we'll do another video about his home.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:44</time>
That's where his grave is.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:45</time>
So all the things like related to that.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:49</time>
And Lincoln are in Springfield,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:50</time>
Illinois.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:51</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:51</time>
And they, and as you kind of walk through the museum, so you've walked out

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:54</time>
of the log cabin kind of by the slave auction, and then you walk in through

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:57</time>
his early life, his time on bookkeeping.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:10:01</time>
And the more you learn, the more I've learned about Lincoln, the

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:10:04</time>
more I realized how many things he tried and how many things he did.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:10:10</time>
Even as a young adult, really, even before he got into the law and into politics.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:10:16</time>
I mean, yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:10:17</time>
Like you said, he was working on the river.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:10:19</time>
He was, I mean, he was, he worked, he literally worked his way up into,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:10:25</time>
into the highest office within the

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:28</time>
United States.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:29</time>
Physically demanding jobs.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:32</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:32</time>
He was cutting wood.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:34</time>
Remember he gets hit in the head by the horse.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:36</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:36</time>
And they think he died for a short time died.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:37</time>
He probably knocked him unconscious.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:38</time>
Yes.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:39</time>
I mean, and he, he likes to wrestle.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:41</time>
Right.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:42</time>
So he does very physically demand, he works at the farm and then

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:45</time>
he's working a pilot on a, a boat.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:47</time>
And that, that's a physically demanding job.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:48</time>
Absolutely.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:49</time>
And then he's bookkeeping, which, uh, in a store, which is not just keeping

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:53</time>
tabs of the books, but it's inventory and stocking and putting stuff away.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:57</time>
So he's learning, he's learning business.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:58</time>
And he's doing the physical stuff as it moves into the more of the,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:02</time>
um, white collar kind of, uh, work where it's not as physically

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:07</time>
demanding, but it's in Springfield that he's going to meet Mary Todd.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:10</time>
It's in Springfield.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:11</time>
He's going to marry Mary Todd.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:13</time>
It's in Springfield that all of their four boys will be born.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:17</time>
So it really is the place that he turns becomes a man.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:22</time>
Yeah, and then from there They kind of do a good job of summarizing

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:26</time>
Kind of is his home life and his early work life up through the presidency

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:31</time>
and one of the things that we actually call out in the video when they start

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:36</time>
getting into his work and political life is How many times he tried and failed.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:40</time>
Yes.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:41</time>
And how many times he kind of succeeded and it was all interspersed throughout.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:45</time>
It's not like he failed a lot early in the beginning and then all of

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:47</time>
a sudden had a slew of successes.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:50</time>
It was like a success here and a failure there and then another

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:53</time>
failure and then another success.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:55</time>
And it was, it was

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:56</time>
so interesting.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:57</time>
It was very interesting.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:58</time>
They also really, they depict a moment.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:01</time>
That in Lincoln's life, which is kind of true about his whole life with his

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:05</time>
children, where he wasn't very much of a disciplinarian, he allowed his kids

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:10</time>
really to have free reign and be kind of, you know, unruly, unruly, and he

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:16</time>
doesn't, so they're like destroying his office and they depict that.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:19</time>
And again, in the imagineer kind of setting, he's laying on the

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:24</time>
couch reading law papers and his kids are destroying his office.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:29</time>
They're jumping on pens.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:30</time>
I mean, they're,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:30</time>
they, they, they make it sound like they were being playful.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:33</time>
Sure.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:34</time>
Way more than what the average parents would say, like, Hey,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:37</time>
don't throw my ink plot across

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:39</time>
the office or whatever, you know?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:41</time>
And they said that he didn't want his children to have

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:43</time>
adult worries like he did.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:46</time>
So you can really understand that.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:48</time>
And just like you had said, Lincoln will have these highs and lows.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:52</time>
Throughout his political career throughout his professional career and then a

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:57</time>
really throughout his personal life.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:58</time>
Yeah, so Edward Robert Todd his oldest is born in 1943 Edward his

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:05</time>
second son is born in 1944 Well Edward will die three years later in 1850.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:09</time>
He dies in the Lincoln home in Springfield, Illinois Yeah, so

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:13</time>
he and then his His third son, Willie, is born that same year.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:17</time>
So his son dies early in 1850 and his third son is born late in 1850.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:22</time>
So he's, he hits these really highs and lows in every aspect of his life.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:30</time>
And you, when you start to see this about Lincoln, this is the pattern that will

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:35</time>
follow him throughout his presidency.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:37</time>
This is really the pattern of his life.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:40</time>
It's.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:41</time>
He hits these amazing lows.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:43</time>
He loses his mother.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:44</time>
He loses his sister.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:45</time>
He finds work.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:47</time>
He gets a lot of promise.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:49</time>
He, he, he opens a law firm in Springfield.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:52</time>
He marries.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:53</time>
He has children.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:54</time>
He loses children.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:56</time>
He gets in the political field.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:57</time>
He loses elections.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:59</time>
He wins elections.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:00</time>
And you just see this perseverance through

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:02</time>
Lincoln.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:03</time>
It's, it's pretty incredible.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:04</time>
And it really speaks to the foundation that was laying

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:08</time>
for him to get him through.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:11</time>
The Civil War.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:11</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:12</time>
And so from there, then they kind of, the first inkling you have of the, the

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:17</time>
next step of the political part of the museum is the Lincoln Douglas debates.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:21</time>
Yes.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:21</time>
So they should, they should, they kind of depict that with the mannequins or

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:25</time>
wax figurines or whatever they are.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:27</time>
And then they start talking about, you kind of walk out of that section of

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:30</time>
museum and then you go over into what looks like the front of the White House.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:34</time>
Mm hmm.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:35</time>
And then we start getting into His presidency.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:38</time>
His presidency.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:39</time>
Now, one thing we didn't show was, um, and I think you'll probably

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:43</time>
remember this, that I, I, I didn't get to show in the video was, um,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:47</time>
Mary Todd Lincoln and all her dresses.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:49</time>
Oh, yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:50</time>
In that first section there.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:51</time>
So there was a lot of Mary Todd Lincoln stuff that I didn't get to put in the

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:53</time>
video because it didn't quite fit.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:55</time>
Well,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:55</time>
there's, there's two cool things you didn't really show.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:58</time>
You can take a picture with the whole family.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:00</time>
Yes, right, right up front, right in front of the White House.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:03</time>
They have the whole family.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:04</time>
You have the Lincolns, so you have President Lincoln, Mary Todd, and all four

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:09</time>
boys, Robert, Edward, Willie, and Tad.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:12</time>
So, you can take a picture with all of, all of them.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:15</time>
And it's kind of, we took one as a family, so it was kind of nice.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:18</time>
And then when you go into the White House, yes, Mary Todd's dresses.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:21</time>
So Mary Todd was a upper class Southern woman and she did have enslaved.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:27</time>
So Lincoln never owned any person or had any enslaved.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:30</time>
Mary Todd had a woman who was her maid dressmaker who was an enslaved woman and

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:36</time>
then be kind of transitioned into her, her and helped her dress and she paid her

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:42</time>
and took care of her and I gave her more agency and choice about staying with her.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:47</time>
But Mary Todd was a.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:49</time>
upper class aristocrat woman, she was used to having means and

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:52</time>
she was used to having money.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:53</time>
So she just well, and her dresses and her extravagant spending of

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:59</time>
that was always a big, uh, thing in

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:02</time>
DC.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:02</time>
And, you know, before we start getting into the, the details of his presidency in

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:06</time>
the civil war and kind of how he was seen.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:09</time>
I, as I was doing research for the video and I was pulling up old

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:13</time>
pictures of the, of the museum.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:16</time>
So there's actually some changes that have been made over the years that weren't

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:19</time>
there while we were, well, when we went.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:21</time>
Oh wow.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:22</time>
And when, um, I saw a picture of, if you remember in that foyer

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:27</time>
and go watch our video, you'll understand what I'm talking about.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:30</time>
In the foyer, there's a lot, that's the log cabin off to the left, there's

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:33</time>
the, and there's a white house.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:35</time>
It looked like previously they had had a figurine of John Wilkes Booth

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:40</time>
out front, kind of off to the side, leaning on the rail of the White House.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:46</time>
Right?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:46</time>
And so they had had him there, it looked like, for some period of time, right?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:50</time>
Because he was kind People, there's multiple pictures on the internet.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:53</time>
You can find it pretty, pretty easily.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:55</time>
So there are aspects of this museum that they've changed

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:58</time>
a little bit over the years.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:59</time>
I don't think that's

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:59</time>
good.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:59</time>
It's not his story.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:00</time>
Yeah, I would agree with that.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:02</time>
But I just thought it was interesting, kind of a little bit of foreshadowing of

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:05</time>
what you end up seeing at the end, right?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:07</time>
So who they have on the porch now is Granton McClellan, two of

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:11</time>
his generals from the Civil War.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:14</time>
And then they have Frederick Douglass, and I think it was Sojourner Truth,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:19</time>
and so they're kind of on the porch.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:22</time>
And then you go into the White House, and like you said, things

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:25</time>
happen pretty quickly for Lincoln, and he, again, is riding this

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:30</time>
rollercoaster of highs and lows.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:37</time>
He's elected November 1860, he leaves for the White House in February

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:42</time>
1861, that's when he's going to leave the House in Springfield.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:46</time>
And what happens not even two months later is the civil war.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:49</time>
Not even two months later, like the civil war will break out.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:54</time>
So he's in the white, he barely probably had time to unpack.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:57</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:57</time>
Right?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:58</time>
And, and then I almost exactly a year after that happens, Willie dies.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:05</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:06</time>
And he dies in the White House and again, devastated.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:11</time>
They're family.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:13</time>
This is where you get a lot of this depression of Lincoln, the melancholy,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:17</time>
the, you know, the problem with his dreams, like he had problems sleeping,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:21</time>
he's up at all hours, and he's wearing the, um, morning band on his Top hats.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:28</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:28</time>
Which he will wear his entire life and he's wearing it the

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:32</time>
night he's shot in Ford's

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:33</time>
Theater.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:33</time>
The museum does a good job even before you get to that part of the museum

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:37</time>
where they show where his son Willie dies is because they walk you through

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:40</time>
this hallway where and in the video we kind of give it the title of like

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:44</time>
Lincoln is vilified by the public.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:46</time>
Yes.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:46</time>
Because there's, there's so much criticism of what he's

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:50</time>
doing, how he's handling things.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:52</time>
And, I mean, we think the press is bad today.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:56</time>
It was almost as bad back then.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:58</time>
There's all these, like, negative articles, and they show pictures,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:19:01</time>
and, and there's just, you know, caricatures of him that are not

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:19:05</time>
flattering and all this stuff.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:19:07</time>
And so as you're walking through this hallway, there's actually voices.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:19:11</time>
They get voice actors kind of saying these things about him.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:19:14</time>
Mm hmm.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:19:14</time>
And then you get up, you know, to where his, his son Willie dies.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:19:17</time>
And so he's been dealing with this.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:19:20</time>
Like you said, his entire time in his presidency, then he has a son that dies,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:19:23</time>
like, I can't imagine what kind of, you know, mental strain that has on a person.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:29</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:29</time>
And you see when they depict Willie's death in the room, the Lincolns are, are

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:34</time>
dressed to the nines because they had just gotten back from a event, a social event.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:39</time>
So here they are acting as president and first lady of the United States,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:44</time>
coming home to their child who's just about to leave the world.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:49</time>
Just showing you what he is dealing with constantly.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:52</time>
And, again, then it goes into the Emancipation Proclamation.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:57</time>
Yes.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:57</time>
Which we have talked about, which, again, highly criticized.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:01</time>
Did he go too far?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:02</time>
Did he not go far enough?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:04</time>
Even as historians, we debate the Emancipation Proclamation today.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:07</time>
We can have a whole podcast just about this.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:10</time>
Real quick, it did not free all the enslaved, it only did free the enslaved in

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:15</time>
local, in, in, in five designated areas.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:19</time>
All those areas were in the South, all those areas were not under Lincoln's

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:22</time>
control at the time, and he did that.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:25</time>
to start kind of an uprising.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:28</time>
So when you think the Emancipation Proclamation wasn't like everybody

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:31</time>
who is enslaved is now free.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:32</time>
That's not what it was.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:33</time>
It's the precursor to that.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:35</time>
It will evolve into more, but that's not what it was.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:40</time>
What was happening is he was.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:42</time>
He was losing ground.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:44</time>
Yeah in the south and he was losing.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:46</time>
So he had to make a big move So he had to make a big move And so he thought if

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:48</time>
this information could get out to the enslaved in the south and they would

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:53</time>
realize that they have been freed Maybe they would revolt become contraband

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:59</time>
of war which is what they will become they make their way to certain areas

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:04</time>
Fort Monroe, and then they in turn start to fight for the north which

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:08</time>
54th Massachusetts is a good example of

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:11</time>
that.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:11</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:11</time>
And if folks are curious, we mentioned Fort Monroe.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:13</time>
We have a, I think we have a previous podcast episode on it and video on it.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:17</time>
I'll, I'll link that.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:18</time>
If you're curious about kind of how this, the, the enslaved in the South,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:22</time>
how they would escape Fort Monroe was basically kind of on that border, you

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:26</time>
know, it's a union held Fort kind of in Southern territory, but it's still union

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:31</time>
held and, but they would escape there.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:34</time>
There's, there's kind of, we have a whole podcast and a

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:35</time>
whole video video about that.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:37</time>
So that's where that controversy comes in.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:39</time>
He didn't do enough because he's not freeing everybody.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:42</time>
He's not making a declaration to free everybody.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:44</time>
And it, and it was too much because people are like, you don't even have

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:49</time>
control of that area that you're staking that you're freeing people for.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:53</time>
So that's where, and again, it's.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:56</time>
big bold letters.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:57</time>
It's criticism because today we think Emancipation Proclamation.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:02</time>
Awesome.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:02</time>
Great.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:03</time>
How wonderful.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:04</time>
But

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:04</time>
there was so much conflict.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:05</time>
And they, I mean, it's so much so that, you know, they're depicting a

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:11</time>
scene as you're walking through the museum of, of him with his cabinet

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:14</time>
and how conflicted his cabinet was.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:16</time>
And then you go to a whole nother section of it.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:19</time>
The Declaration, and it's on both sides.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:22</time>
You've got people for, hey, you should have gone further.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:24</time>
They got people against, hey, you shouldn't have done it at all.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:26</time>
And there's these peoples and these actors that kind of like these, uh,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:30</time>
almost like ghostly images, but they're, they're video, you know, talking.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:34</time>
We show a little bit in the video and it's really well done.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:37</time>
And then it's Lincoln kind of all by himself.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:39</time>
Yes.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:40</time>
In this big dark room with just.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:42</time>
Constant conflict.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:44</time>
Yes.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:45</time>
On, on, on each side.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:46</time>
Yes.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:46</time>
And that's, and it's him standing there just kind of, and I kind

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:49</time>
of put in the video that he just kind of stayed resolute.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:51</time>
He was

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:52</time>
resolute and he even his most trusted devices, like you

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:54</time>
said, the cabinet was conflicted.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:57</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:57</time>
And what.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:58</time>
What I think the museum does a good job of, and what we stress here,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:01</time>
is what we think of Lincoln today, memory of Lincoln, history of Lincoln,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:06</time>
is not what Lincoln lived through.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:08</time>
Absolutely.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:09</time>
It's not what he was in the moment.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:11</time>
And it's so much more amazing now, when you think about him now, but

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:14</time>
then what he was going through.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:16</time>
It was no, it was much more, uh, contentious than what,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:22</time>
what we even think about today.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:23:23</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:23:24</time>
So then, then from there, they kind of anchor on that.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:23:26</time>
They talk about how some African Americans would start joining the army.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:23:31</time>
They go through kind of briefly how he would sit.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:23:34</time>
And so, you know, he to kind of get these semi live updates of what's going

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:39</time>
on.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:39</time>
He was very, again, he doesn't sleep a lot because of everything happening.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:44</time>
And, uh, yeah, he really liked to get, I mean, that was the most up

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:48</time>
to date information at the time.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:50</time>
And so he wanted to get that most up to date information.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:53</time>
And then we talk about him delivering the Gettysburg address.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:01</time>
So Gettysburg is that turning point of the war.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:04</time>
Right.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:04</time>
July 1863.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:06</time>
And this is where really the South is making its big push into the North, right?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:12</time>
The South is making a big push into Pennsylvania and the North

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:16</time>
prevails, pushes them back.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:19</time>
And that's when so many men died.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:23</time>
And so in November, Lincoln comes out to dedicate the cemetery and his speech,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:29</time>
probably his most famous speech, probably one of the most famous speeches in

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:33</time>
the world, period, two minutes long.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:36</time>
242 words.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:37</time>
I mean, the man didn't have to say much to make a statement.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:40</time>
And it's so fast that even for the historic photography at the time, they

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:45</time>
don't have a very good picture of it.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:47</time>
Because the photographers weren't expecting him to get

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:50</time>
off the stage so quickly.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:51</time>
Yeah, I

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:52</time>
think the only picture, good picture they have there is

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:54</time>
like of him going and walking off the stage in the crowd.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:57</time>
In the crowd.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:57</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:58</time>
I think he, his hat's even off.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:59</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:59</time>
Or something like that.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:25:01</time>
And, and you kind of like the, I think we've done previous videos there, we'll

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:25:05</time>
link some of those in the show notes here, but you show that, and I remember kind

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:25:09</time>
of having to circle it when I edited the video originally, because it's hard to see

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:13</time>
Lincoln.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:13</time>
So today.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:15</time>
You know, I'm just gonna talk real quick about the library is there's a

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:19</time>
lot of papers Lincoln, especially his presidency But you can imagine there's

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:23</time>
still a lot of papers out there that do exist about Lincoln because he was

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:26</time>
a lawyer And so he was writing things and he was signing things but I think

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:31</time>
the most valuable writing you will ever find at Abraham Lincoln will be

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:35</time>
his Drafts of the Gettysburg Address.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:39</time>
Oh, okay.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:40</time>
And, and again, not everything has been found, and that's kind

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:44</time>
of what the movie went into.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:46</time>
Things are still out there.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:48</time>
There are still private collectors of those things, and there are people

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:51</time>
who have donated a lot to the Library of Congress and to the library.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:55</time>
So thank goodness we have those, but you never know.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:58</time>
If you ever find a Lincoln signature somewhere.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:02</time>
So it goes pretty quickly from Gettysburg to the 13th Amendment.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:07</time>
It fast

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:08</time>
forwards to the end of the war.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:16</time>
So the war is over.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:18</time>
So the 13th Amendment happens in January of 1865.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:23</time>
The war is over by April of 1865.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:27</time>
And again, Lincoln's got no time, he has no time to just Was it

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:33</time>
April 9th Appomattox was?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:36</time>
And then he's at Fort Slater April 15th.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:39</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:39</time>
So he has not He doesn't even have a week.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:42</time>
Doesn't even have a week.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:43</time>
And, but I, when we, we show it on Instagram, real quick as a real,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:48</time>
and it's a great part of the video.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:51</time>
And we've talked about this before.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:53</time>
They were supposed to go to another show.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:55</time>
It's one of the first videos we did for Walk With History.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:56</time>
They were supposed to go to another show that night, plans to go to Ford's Theater

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:01</time>
instead because they want to see a comedy and Our American Cousin is a comedy

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:05</time>
and Mary Todd wants Lincoln to laugh.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:07</time>
They are very amorous at the time because they're like,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:11</time>
now we can have time together.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:13</time>
Now we can enjoy the presidency.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:15</time>
Now we can, and he had just been reelected, just been reelected.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:18</time>
We can mourn our son together.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:20</time>
He was like, let's take some time.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:22</time>
Let's take a trip.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:23</time>
You and I, let's just be together.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:25</time>
And she was very, and they even joke about it at Ford's theater because they go there

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:30</time>
with another major and his fiance and they're hugging and kissing and touching.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:35</time>
And the major and his fiance are not even touching each other and Mary Todd's

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:38</time>
like, what are, what will they think of

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:39</time>
us?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:39</time>
Well, I mean, if you think about it, they've had this huge weight

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:43</time>
lifted off their shoulder.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:44</time>
The war is over, like the South has surrendered and it's, you're through what

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:49</time>
you know is going to be the most difficult part of your presidential career.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:53</time>
Yes.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:54</time>
And

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:54</time>
you're like, we did it.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:55</time>
And if you think about them as parents, Robert Todd has just come back.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:58</time>
He was there at Appomattox.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:00</time>
And so he's home at the White House and their other son, Tad, went

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:04</time>
to go, took the other tickets.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:06</time>
They were going to, and so they have both boys home, both the

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:09</time>
boys that are still living home.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:10</time>
And so they're having this like a great night.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:13</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:13</time>
A date night.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:14</time>
This museum does a fantastic job of when you turn the corner,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:18</time>
you see John Wilkes Booth.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:20</time>
Behind the door of their presidential box.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:24</time>
Yep.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:24</time>
And then you can kind of get another vantage point where you can see where

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:28</time>
he would jump from the stage, from the box onto the stage, and then run back.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:33</time>
And in that moment how quickly, boom.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:28:42</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:28:42</time>
And, and, and was kind of one of my favorite parts that

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:28:45</time>
I was making of the video.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:28:47</time>
Because, one, I found a good song that kind of shows the rising tension,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:28:52</time>
you know, and then it goes to, to boom, you know, the, the president

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:28:55</time>
shot and the president's dead.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:28:57</time>
And then kind of, again, it, it, it quickly steps on to, you know, from there.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:29:02</time>
They don't give John Wilkes Booth kind of a ton of airtime inside the museum.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:29:07</time>
They don't really kind of bring him up too much.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:29:08</time>
They just kind of show his character a little bit.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:29:11</time>
Yep.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:11</time>
And I don't even think they talk about the trial at all.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:13</time>
So again, if you want to see about the trial and where it took place,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:16</time>
we have a whole video on that.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:17</time>
But what it goes into is just his...

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:20</time>
death.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:21</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:21</time>
And how the coffin lied in state.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:24</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:24</time>
And what it looked like.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:25</time>
And the funeral train.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:26</time>
And the funeral train.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:27</time>
Which was very long.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:28</time>
It was very long.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:29</time>
It kind of took the same path that he took for his inauguration,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:33</time>
because he left Springfield to D.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:35</time>
C.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:36</time>
and he took this big, long trip before he became president.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:39</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:39</time>
It almost took the same trip.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:29:41</time>
It kind of goes up basically north up to Buffalo and then traces

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:29:46</time>
the Great Lakes all the way down

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:47</time>
to Springfield.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:48</time>
Yes.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:48</time>
And you might wonder, why do we always talk about Erie?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:50</time>
It's because we were, we lived in Erie.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:52</time>
We were stationed in Erie when Scott had his CO command, his commanding officer.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:56</time>
Job tour was in Erie, Pennsylvania.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:59</time>
So we're always interested in what will

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:30:01</time>
happen The funny thing is is a lot of historical things happened through

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:30:04</time>
Erie because they used to build big, large parts of the railroads and trains there.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:30:10</time>
Yes.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:30:10</time>
So they used to build large parts of that.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:30:12</time>
So of course the train tracks would go through there.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:30:15</time>
Yes.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:30:16</time>
And so in that era, the late 1800s, early 1900s, all through the 1800s really, that

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:30:22</time>
was actually a fairly significant part because one, it was on the Great Lakes

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:30:27</time>
and two, They're, for some reason, that's where they were building large train parts

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:30:31</time>
and rail station parts and it connects

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:33</time>
Buffalo and Cleveland, which at the time were some of

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:36</time>
your two big industrial cities.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:30:37</time>
There's a lot of history that happened through there.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:30:39</time>
So he, Lincoln's funeral train goes kind of up north and traces the

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:30:42</time>
Great Lakes down to Springfield.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:30:44</time>
And they bury him in Springfield.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:30:46</time>
They bury

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:46</time>
him in Springfield.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:47</time>
So you get to see what the coffin looked like and what George

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:51</time>
Washington's portrait over it.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:54</time>
And then that's really the end of the museum.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:57</time>
And I think it really does a good job of showing you just

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:00</time>
how abrupt civil war is over.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:04</time>
The union is brought back together and we, then we lose the president who did that.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:09</time>
And I almost, it's, it's to me, it's kind of serendipitous of America.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:14</time>
We talk, I talk about this at the end with no struggle, there's no progress.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:18</time>
He got us through.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:19</time>
That's why people consider Abraham Lincoln the greatest president we have ever had.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:24</time>
He gets us through this, our country, resolves it, and then he's gone.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:35</time>
Well, and, and he, we've talked about it a couple times, you know,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:38</time>
and then we'll wrap things up, that he didn't try to imprison or execute

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:44</time>
any of the leaders of the South.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:46</time>
Nope.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:46</time>
Right?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:47</time>
He immediately wanted to move on towards healing and in a leader like

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:52</time>
that, setting the stage and setting really the culture of what the

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:56</time>
next steps of the country will be.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:59</time>
I think people don't recognize that enough.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:32:02</time>
And I, and the more I learn about him through doing this channel

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:32:06</time>
and the podcast and that is, is there's so much forethought in that.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:32:12</time>
Because you could very easily continue that cycle of bitterness and hey,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:32:18</time>
you're not, you know, you're not ours.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:32:21</time>
Like, we surrendered.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:32:22</time>
You, we didn't want this.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:32:24</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:32:24</time>
And then if he had continued and like executed Jefferson Davis and if he had

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:32:28</time>
executed generals and this and the other, like, It just would have made it worse.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:32:31</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:32:31</time>
So it was very smart of him not to do that.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:32:33</time>
He

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:34</time>
was, and it was, it says a lot about a character of a man.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:37</time>
It really does.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:37</time>
So it was a forgiveness without malice.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:39</time>
Remember we talk about that at Appomattox and we, we've done a whole

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:42</time>
story about Jefferson Davis and Lee.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:45</time>
And I think if he would have executed those men because how much

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:48</time>
they were beloved in the South, he would have created martyrs.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:52</time>
And he would have created a lot.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:53</time>
I mean, it wasn't reconstruction was more like deconstruction.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:58</time>
I think it would have been much worse to have these martyrs to

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:01</time>
to hold on to for much longer.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:04</time>
Yeah, Lincoln and I thank goodness Johnson kind of took that from him and

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:10</time>
was kind of resolute about the same thing.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:12</time>
But it's an amazing museum.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:14</time>
It is

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:33:15</time>
a must see.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:33:16</time>
It's so interactive and friendly for kids and plus we didn't even

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:33:21</time>
get to go to the library portion.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:33:23</time>
It was closed that day and we had wanted to go.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:33:26</time>
You could, it, if you were in that part of the country, even if

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:33:29</time>
you're not, you should, you really should make a dedicated effort to

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:33:32</time>
go see that museum and the library.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:33:34</time>
It's absolutely incredible.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:33:36</time>
It feels like going to Disneyland for half of a day.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:33:40</time>
It's incredible.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:33:41</time>
Um, so, so thank you again to everybody listening.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:33:45</time>
If you guys enjoyed this podcast episode, please share it with a friend.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:33:48</time>
Um, we've got more Lincoln topics coming up.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:33:51</time>
We got to go inside of his home.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:33:53</time>
So if you enjoyed this podcast, please subscribe because we

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:33:56</time>
got more on that coming up.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:33:58</time>
We appreciate you.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:33:59</time>
Um, and we rely on your community to grow and we appreciate you all every day.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:34:03</time>
We'll talk to you next time.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:34:05</time>
Thank you.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:34:06</time>
Transcribed

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:07</time>
by https: otter.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:07</time>
ai

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