Visiting Crazy Horse: Western History & Monument Road Trip Guide

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:00:00</time>
<p>And another thing that's very significant about Crazy Horse is</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:00:03</time>
<p>he's taken by his people and no one knows exactly where he's buried.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:19</time>
<p>Welcome to Talk With History.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:21</time>
<p>I'm your host, Scott, here with my wife and historian, Jen.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:24</time>
<p>Hello.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:25</time>
<p>On this podcast, we give you insights into our history inspired bold travels,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:29</time>
<p>YouTube channel journey, and examine history through deeper conversations</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:33</time>
<p>with the curious, the explorers, and the history lovers out there.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:39</time>
<p>I'm Jen.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:40</time>
<p>Again, last week I did not tell a joke, but we had a listener email</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:46</time>
<p>us with a solid History Dad joke.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
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<p>Oh gosh.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:50</time>
<p>So this is from Susie Q.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:51</time>
<p>Susie Q actually left us a review before.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:54</time>
<p>Alright, so here's the joke.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:56</time>
<p>Where did the Lone Ranger take his trash?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:01:02</time>
<p>I don't know.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:03</time>
<p>To the dump, to the dump, to the dump, dump, dump.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:07</time>
<p>Again, if you're listening and that either made you roll your eyes or</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:11</time>
<p>you have a better joke to tell, feel free to reach out to us through</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:15</time>
<p>our website at talkwithhistory.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:16</time>
<p>com.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
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<p>Susie Q, I appreciate you submitting that joke.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:20</time>
<p>It made me laugh when I got it.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:21</time>
<p>So we also had got a couple, we got two new reviews.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
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<p>So we got a review from Goody 1128.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
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<p>Uh, five star review says, what a cool idea for a podcast sharing personal</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
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<p>experiences and insights and bringing the listener along for the ride.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
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<p>So glad I found this show and another five star review from mood</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
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<p>fixer, uh, five stars brilliant.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
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<p>It is estimated there are two and a half million podcast</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
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<p>shows currently in the world.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
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<p>The topics of a podcast are virtually any endless and yet I stumbled onto this</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
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<p>podcast and found it to be brilliant, educational, entertaining, and enjoyable.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
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<p>little bit of history buff myself would have never thought to actually</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
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<p>seek out a podcast on history.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
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<p>I'm glad I found this.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
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<p>You guys are doing a great job, particularly like the episode</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
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<p>on the ghosts of Gettysburg.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
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<p>That seemed to be a popular one.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
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<p>We've had a couple people say that and I've seen the downloads</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
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<p>for that particular podcast.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
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<p>Well, we're</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:02:16</time>
<p>coming into October.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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<p>So, and I think as any historian will tell you, ghost stories are always Route</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
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<p>rooted in history in history.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
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<p>Well in Gettysburg is a popular subject, too So we really appreciate the reviews,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:29</time>
<p>you know as you share this podcast, or if you're a new listener Please feel to</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:32</time>
<p>drop us a review good or bad We love the good ones, but I appreciate the feedback</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
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<p>in any form or fashion that we can get</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
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<p>so today We're exploring the remarkable life and enduring significance of</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:53</time>
<p>crazy horse the revered Native American leader of the Oglala Lakota tribe.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:59</time>
<p>From his early years during a tumultuous era of westward expansion to his</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:03:03</time>
<p>pivotal role in battles such as the Fetterman fight and the legendary</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:03:07</time>
<p>Battle of Little Bighorn, Crazy Horse's courage and leadership left</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:03:12</time>
<p>an indelible mark on American history.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:03:14</time>
<p>And we're also going to talk about our visit to the awe inspiring Crazy Horse</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:03:19</time>
<p>Monument in South Dakota's Black Hills.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
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<p>This colossal sculpture, a work in progress, is dedicated to honoring</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:03:27</time>
<p>Crazy Horse's memory and his unwavering commitment to preserving</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:03:31</time>
<p>Lakota culture and traditions.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:03:33</time>
<p>So Jen, let's kind of start off by talking about the man, the myth.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:03:39</time>
<p>the legend that</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:03:39</time>
<p>is Crazy Horse.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:03:40</time>
<p>Sure.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:03:40</time>
<p>So, um, he was born in 1840 around the Rapid City Black Hills area.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:03:47</time>
<p>When he was born, um, his, his name given to him was Among the Trees</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:03:51</time>
<p>because he was kind of one with nature.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:03:54</time>
<p>Uh, his name will grow to Crazy Horse, which is his, his real name is His Horse</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:03:58</time>
<p>is Crazy, but it becomes Crazy Horse.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:01</time>
<p>Um, and he's just, this is the 1840s.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:05</time>
<p>So this is the beginning of all of this.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:09</time>
<p>encroachment, uh, homesteading, Oregon Trail reservation, this is where</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:14</time>
<p>you're going to get all this kind of</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:04:15</time>
<p>hardship.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:04:16</time>
<p>Yeah, west westward expansion, the 49er gold rush, all that stuff.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:20</time>
<p>So he's very much brought up in that.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:22</time>
<p>And when you think of him as a warrior, as a fighter, you know, he's taken</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:28</time>
<p>up arms, he's known for taking up arms against the federal government</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:31</time>
<p>fighting against this encroachment.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:34</time>
<p>And when we talk about encroachment, we talk about the</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:37</time>
<p>American Indians had been given.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:39</time>
<p>certain areas to live reservations through certain treaties.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:43</time>
<p>Uh, the most significant is the treaty of Fort Laramie and we've been to Fort</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:46</time>
<p>Laramie and that treaty gave the Lakota Sioux the land of the Black Hills.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:53</time>
<p>And when it's encroached upon, when they discover gold, you know, Crazy</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:59</time>
<p>horse is significant in that fight back.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:02</time>
<p>And so the Lakota Siouxs, you know, will move westward Into the</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:06</time>
<p>Montana area and that's when you're gonna get the Fetterman massacre.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:09</time>
<p>That's where they the American Indians will take out a complete section of army</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:15</time>
<p>soldiers and Crazy Horse is the leader.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:18</time>
<p>And then of course, Battle of Little Bighorn.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:20</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:05:20</time>
<p>And if, if you're curious to hear more about Fort Laramie, some</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:05:24</time>
<p>of those treaties or the Battle of Little Bighorn, we actually</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:05:27</time>
<p>have previous episodes on those.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:05:29</time>
<p>So after you're done listening to this episode, we encourage you to</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:05:31</time>
<p>go back and listen to our previous episodes specifically on those events.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:34</time>
<p>But what comes of this is he's given, he has great respect.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:38</time>
<p>He is, you think, when you think of crazy horse, I want you to</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:43</time>
<p>think of like George Washington.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:44</time>
<p>Like this is a person who is commanding great respect from having done the</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:49</time>
<p>deed, from having been there, from having led people and survived.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:53</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:54</time>
<p>I mean,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:05:54</time>
<p>he's right up there with Sitting Bull, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:05:56</time>
<p>I mean, these are, these are names that even just the average</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:05:59</time>
<p>American learned kind of growing up.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:06:01</time>
<p>You know, learning American history.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:06:03</time>
<p>Yes.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:03</time>
<p>He's more, he's more of a warrior.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:05</time>
<p>Um, and of course, uh, Crazy Horse would never be a chief.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:09</time>
<p>He's young.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:10</time>
<p>Gotcha.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:10</time>
<p>But he's, he's a warrior.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:12</time>
<p>And when we talk about Bighorn, how he leads the fight and he leads it</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:16</time>
<p>between two brigades of army soldiers as they're shooting at him and he doesn't</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:19</time>
<p>get shot at all, he becomes a myth.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:23</time>
<p>Right.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:23</time>
<p>It's just like George Washington who would lead from the front and never get shot.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:26</time>
<p>It becomes this kind of myth to inspire your men to fight.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:30</time>
<p>And they believe that like the, the warriors, the Lakota warriors</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:33</time>
<p>were so inspired by him, uh, that that's why he's depicted on this</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:06:38</time>
<p>monument.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:06:39</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:06:39</time>
<p>And I, and I believe too, that even after kind of some of these fights, like</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:06:44</time>
<p>as kind of the, the native Americans choice, right, they won the couple</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:06:51</time>
<p>of these battles and all of a sudden.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:06:52</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:06:53</time>
<p>the, the United States at the time said, Oh, hell no.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:06:57</time>
<p>Right.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:06:57</time>
<p>And then they sent a ton of soldiers out and they, and they squash it</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:00</time>
<p>right away for right or wrong, you know, and, and, and many eyes see it</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:05</time>
<p>as being kind of wrong and depending on what lens you view it through.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:11</time>
<p>But one of the things I believe that, and correct me if I'm wrong, that, that</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:14</time>
<p>crazy horse was known for was he really And I think you mentioned it, like,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:19</time>
<p>he never touched a pen, he always kind of stuck to his guns about, you know,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:25</time>
<p>Native American culture, and no, this is my, this is our land, you guys gave it.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:29</time>
<p>He kind of never gave in.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:30</time>
<p>He never signs his treaty.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:32</time>
<p>That was kind of the final thing that kind of put him into that legendary</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:35</time>
<p>status, plus how he was caught and killed.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:37</time>
<p>So we'll talk about.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:38</time>
<p>more of that in the controversy of the monument, but so if you think about</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:42</time>
<p>Battle of the Bighorn, 1876, he's there one year later for what they call</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:47</time>
<p>the, um, the last sun dance of 1877.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:51</time>
<p>So a year later, he goes to the area of Battle of the Bighorn around August.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:55</time>
<p>And then he, he realizes how much the army is retaliating against</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:59</time>
<p>his people and killing his people.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:01</time>
<p>So he surrenders.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:03</time>
<p>And he's taken to, um, Fort Robinson in Nebraska and he</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:07</time>
<p>is killed September 5th, 1877.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:10</time>
<p>So if you think about August is the one year anniversary of Little Bighorn</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:14</time>
<p>and he's killed not even a month later.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:17</time>
<p>So he's taken to the fort and when he gets into the guardhouse, uh, he</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:23</time>
<p>kind of scuffles with the soldier and the soldier bayonets him.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:08:27</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:08:27</time>
<p>So, so actually the day after this podcast will be released will be the anniversary</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:32</time>
<p>of his death.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:32</time>
<p>Of his death.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:33</time>
<p>And his last known words are, I have spoken.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:36</time>
<p>And another thing that's very significant about crazy horse is</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:39</time>
<p>he's taken by his people and no one knows exactly where he's buried.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:43</time>
<p>Oh, I didn't know that.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:43</time>
<p>Yep.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:44</time>
<p>So there's four locations.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:45</time>
<p>It could be, um, most likely it's a Creek by wounded knee.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:50</time>
<p>Cause, uh, in South Dakota, but no one knows he, they protected him and</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:55</time>
<p>they, you know, he didn't, he didn't want, well, I'll talk more about this.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:59</time>
<p>He, there's no photographs of crazy horse.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:01</time>
<p>He didn't ever want his picture taken.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:02</time>
<p>He didn't ever want his, he never touched a pen.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:05</time>
<p>He never signed a treaty.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:06</time>
<p>He didn't want anyone to know where he was buried, like besides his people.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:10</time>
<p>And so he very much held true to his heritage and his way of life.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:15</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:15</time>
<p>And you see it with a lot of legends, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:17</time>
<p>They kind of, they die young, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:19</time>
<p>They're kind of, they burn bright, die young.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:21</time>
<p>And he was definitely one of those.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:23</time>
<p>And I think to your point leads into kind of why he was picked</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:26</time>
<p>as the subject of the monument.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:28</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:28</time>
<p>So let's talk about the memorial.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:30</time>
<p>So you, you get this mountain in South Dakota, it's only 17 miles away</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:35</time>
<p>from Rushmore and it's private land.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:39</time>
<p>So Chief Henry Standing Bear had picked out this mountain, uh, because</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:44</time>
<p>it's a sacred mountain and he had traded 900 acres of his land for this</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:49</time>
<p>mountain with the federal government.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:51</time>
<p>And the federal government had agreed to it.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:53</time>
<p>And then he had met the sculptor at the World's Fair, and he had gotten</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:59</time>
<p>some notoriety at the World's Fair, and the sculptor had helped on Rushmore.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:02</time>
<p>So he had some, uh, experience.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:05</time>
<p>And he asks him if he will...</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:07</time>
<p>sculpt this mountain into crazy horse.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:10</time>
<p>And they, well, at first, I'm not sure who, and they do a lot</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:14</time>
<p>of discussion about crazy horse.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:15</time>
<p>And again, like we said, this is a person who really does depict the</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:19</time>
<p>Ogallala Lakota Sioux way of life.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:23</time>
<p>And they really wanted him to be the center of that monument.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:27</time>
<p>So, um, that's why he's depicted.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:29</time>
<p>He's riding a horse, he's pointing out, and he's supposed to be pointing at one.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:34</time>
<p>Time a crazy horse was asked where are your lands and he said it's</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:38</time>
<p>where my dead lie And he's supposed to be pointing out where his dead</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:10:41</time>
<p>lie You know if you're gonna pick such and kind of an epic monument to the</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:10:46</time>
<p>Native American culture at the time I mean, he really is like that embodiment.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:10:51</time>
<p>He's I mean you kind of In a romantic way kind of he's like a James Dean,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:10:56</time>
<p>you know, but but he really actually did stuff He was out there fighting and</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:00</time>
<p>leading and and doing all the real real stuff, you know So much more historically</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:05</time>
<p>significant, but he kind of had that that aura about him And so you could when the</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:10</time>
<p>more you learn about it when we went to visit the monument and we walk through</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:14</time>
<p>the visitor center and learned more about you know, crazy horse and the the</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:19</time>
<p>artist who ended up kind of you know, Uh, starting the sculpture and all that stuff.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:24</time>
<p>It really was neat to learn about.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:26</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:26</time>
<p>And you think Crazy Horse is killed at 36, 37.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:29</time>
<p>No one knows exactly his age, but so the monument is such a young man, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:35</time>
<p>And he's very, he's shirtless.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:37</time>
<p>So you see all his muscles.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:38</time>
<p>He's very like, you know, he looks like he is a powerful.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:43</time>
<p>man of the people.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:45</time>
<p>And I think it's such a great depiction of him because it shows</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:48</time>
<p>this youth and this possibility of life and this wanting to be one with,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:53</time>
<p>uh, with the land and the people.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:55</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:56</time>
<p>Just this, this spirit that kind of embodied, you know, everything around</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:00</time>
<p>them, his hair's flowing behind him and the horse does look kind of crazy.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:03</time>
<p>The horse is like going, it's really moving, you know, in, in.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:09</time>
<p>We, you see a lot of sketches of what it eventually will look like because</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:12</time>
<p>I think you mentioned the video.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:14</time>
<p>It's been going on for</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:15</time>
<p>75 years.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:16</time>
<p>75 years.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:16</time>
<p>We'll talk about that.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:18</time>
<p>So like I said, it's commissioned by Henry Standing Bear.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:21</time>
<p>He's a, he's a Lakota elder and he commissions at June 3rd, uh,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:25</time>
<p>1948 and it's, he commissions Kordchoff Jolkowski and Kordchoff.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:32</time>
<p>Joel, Joel Kovsky, again, is a sculptor that helps on Rushmore.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:36</time>
<p>And he is kind of coming into his own and has some examples of his sculpting at the</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:41</time>
<p>World's Fair, which Sandy Bear sees it.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:43</time>
<p>So he invites, um, Joel Kovsky to South Dakota and, you know, present some of</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:50</time>
<p>this whole idea and he agrees to it.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:53</time>
<p>And he brings his wife out, Ruth, they ended up having 10 children</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:57</time>
<p>and they work on it until he dies.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:59</time>
<p>She works on it until she dies.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:01</time>
<p>And right now.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:02</time>
<p>their children and grandchildren are the ones who are still leading up the the</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:06</time>
<p>building the sculpting of the monument.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:09</time>
<p>Um, it's operated by the Crazy Horse Memorial Foundation and what's in But it's</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:14</time>
<p>taken so long and why it's so significant is this is a nonprofit and they don't</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:18</time>
<p>accept any federal or state funding.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:21</time>
<p>So when you think of like Rushmore didn't take that long because it was completely</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:25</time>
<p>funded by the federal government.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:26</time>
<p>We had all this money to build it, but crazy horse doesn't.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:30</time>
<p>Crazy horse has to go through private donations.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:33</time>
<p>It has a foundation.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:35</time>
<p>So everyone who visits crazy horse.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:37</time>
<p>All of your money that you're paying, your entrance fee, your</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:41</time>
<p>gift shop, anything you buy there all goes into building Crazy Horse.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:45</time>
<p>And we'll put the link in the podcast here if you'd like to donate to Crazy Horse.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:50</time>
<p>Since it is a non profit, every donation</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:52</time>
<p>helps.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:52</time>
<p>Yeah, we actually did get, and that was, it was kind of</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:54</time>
<p>a neat response to the video.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:56</time>
<p>And I, again, I always encourage folks to go watch the video, but it</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:00</time>
<p>was a neat response because we didn't initially have that, that link in there.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:04</time>
<p>And people started asking, like, Hey, is there somewhere I can donate?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:08</time>
<p>And we, so we scrambled, we put the link in there.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:10</time>
<p>So there in the video description, it'll be in the podcast show</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:13</time>
<p>notes description as well.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:14</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:14</time>
<p>So</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:14</time>
<p>if you go visit, uh, you pay by car as you go in.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:17</time>
<p>So that's all you, it's, it's really easy how you gain your entrance into the.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:22</time>
<p>monument area, but when it's complete, it'll be the second tallest statue</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:27</time>
<p>in the world behind one in India.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:30</time>
<p>It's built out of Thunderhead Mountain, which I told Lutz again</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:33</time>
<p>before is sacred land of the Black Hills of the Lakota Sioux.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:37</time>
<p>It's going to be six hundred and.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:39</time>
<p>40 feet long, 560 feet high.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:42</time>
<p>And his arm is going to stretch out.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:44</time>
<p>Like I said, his arm is pointing out 263 feet.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:48</time>
<p>Now his face is about 87 feet long.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:52</time>
<p>And when you're like, okay, that's great.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:55</time>
<p>Well, Each president on Mount Rushmore is 60 feet long.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:59</time>
<p>So if you think how significant, if you've ever been to Rushmore and seen</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:03</time>
<p>how big that looks, Crazy Horse is going to be almost a third bigger</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:08</time>
<p>and his monument is 360 degrees.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:12</time>
<p>It's a full, it's his whole body wrapped around.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:15</time>
<p>So unlike Rushmore, that's just one sided.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:18</time>
<p>It's going to be a completely.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:20</time>
<p>Um, Circular.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:21</time>
<p>So that's going to be pretty</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:15:22</time>
<p>cool.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:15:22</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:15:22</time>
<p>One of the cool things we were able to show in the video was</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:15:25</time>
<p>kind of like a Google Maps view.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:15:28</time>
<p>And actually that's probably one of the best views that you can get is</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:15:30</time>
<p>you just go into Google Maps or Apple Maps and look up Crazy Horse Monument.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:15:33</time>
<p>You kind of look at the 360, you know.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:15:36</time>
<p>Picture of it this 3d picture of it and it's actually pretty</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:15:39</time>
<p>close to what it looks like today.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:40</time>
<p>Yeah Yeah, and like I said in 1948, they thought oh, it's gonna take</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:43</time>
<p>us 30 years And now it's been 75 years and as of today, there is no timeline</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:49</time>
<p>for completion But there is a plan there is more and I want people to understand</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:54</time>
<p>that there's more than just the monument That is the plan for the whole area The</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:00</time>
<p>plan is for it to be this educational cultural center with the monument in</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:05</time>
<p>that's in the center of that whole plan.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:08</time>
<p>And they want a Native American museum.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:10</time>
<p>They want a Native American cultural center.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:12</time>
<p>They want a University of South Dakota satellite campus, plus an Indian</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:15</time>
<p>University of North America there.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:18</time>
<p>And so if you see the model in the video, it'll show like the buildings and like</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:23</time>
<p>a football field and like dormitories.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:26</time>
<p>And it's a whole campus, the whole campus.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:28</time>
<p>They want this whole center with Crazy Horse as.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:31</time>
<p>This, the monument or memorial, you can use the words interchangeably.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:35</time>
<p>I've seen monument and memorial for both, um, in the center.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:39</time>
<p>Yeah,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:40</time>
<p>it's, uh.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:42</time>
<p>It really was neat.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:43</time>
<p>Now, there was one thing that we didn't do while we were there, is you can</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:47</time>
<p>actually take like a bus tour up, up closer to the actual monument itself.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:53</time>
<p>And I think there's some, like, kind of things you can go inside</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:55</time>
<p>and displays up there that we didn't, we didn't go see when</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:58</time>
<p>we saw it.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:59</time>
<p>Yeah, so if you visit, I want to suggest a couple things.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:01</time>
<p>If you visit, again, you're going to pay your entrance fee going in.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:04</time>
<p>The parking lot, I think, has some of the best views of Crazy Horse.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:07</time>
<p>It really does.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:07</time>
<p>Like once you get out of your car, you're like, Oh my gosh, it's, it's</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:10</time>
<p>one of the most beautiful views of it, even from inside the building.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:13</time>
<p>The parking lot probably has one of the best views.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:16</time>
<p>There's a movie.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:16</time>
<p>Of course, when you first walk in, it's going to give you all of this background</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:20</time>
<p>and talk about the sculpture and, uh, Standing Bear and where it is at today.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:25</time>
<p>And then of course, like you said, there's a bus tour to the top, but at the actual,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:30</time>
<p>um, visitor center, there's a lot of artifacts and we show those in the video.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:35</time>
<p>There's a lot of, uh, about the, um, It's the Lakota way of life</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:39</time>
<p>and just Western way of life.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:41</time>
<p>They also honor some code talkers from World War II.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:45</time>
<p>And then we had at the time there were some women of the Lakota who were doing</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:51</time>
<p>some medicine dances and they were depicting like, um, a classic medicine</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:55</time>
<p>dance and then a modern medicine dance.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:58</time>
<p>There's a gift shop.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:59</time>
<p>There's a place</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:59</time>
<p>to eat.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:00</time>
<p>Yeah, there's, there's Western art.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:01</time>
<p>They actually had a whole room.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:03</time>
<p>One of the kind of the large windowed areas had all the</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:07</time>
<p>survivors of Little Bighorn.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:10</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:10</time>
<p>So I had pictures of all the men, the warriors that were</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:12</time>
<p>survivors of Little Bighorn.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:14</time>
<p>That was really neat.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:15</time>
<p>It was beautiful.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:16</time>
<p>It was beautiful.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:17</time>
<p>And I love those kind of, kind of intimate portraits, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:21</time>
<p>These were all paintings, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:23</time>
<p>You know, none of them were really photographs.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:25</time>
<p>But it was cool.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:26</time>
<p>You could see Sitting Bull.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:26</time>
<p>You could see all these different warriors that were survivors.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:30</time>
<p>That was really neat.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:31</time>
<p>And it's them basically facing the monument.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:34</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:34</time>
<p>And so that was really cool setting to kind of see</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:39</time>
<p>all of that.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:39</time>
<p>It is neat.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:40</time>
<p>And they have, um, so then we're going to start to get into</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:44</time>
<p>a little of the controversy.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:45</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:45</time>
<p>So tell us about the controversy.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:47</time>
<p>So what else is depicted at the visitor center is, uh, Joe Kofsky's.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:52</time>
<p>Like his sculpture workshop and kind of monuments of him, faces of him,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:58</time>
<p>and so people of the Lakota Sioux and people in general are like, well,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:02</time>
<p>who gets to speak for Crazy Horse?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:05</time>
<p>Is this white man the one who gets to speak for Crazy Horse?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:08</time>
<p>And the monument is now becoming more of a tribute, they feel, to the Joufkovsky</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:13</time>
<p>family instead of to Crazy Horse himself.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:17</time>
<p>And because he gets to depict how Crazy Horse looks and he gets to</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:21</time>
<p>depict how, because again, I told you there's no photographs of Crazy</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:24</time>
<p>Horse, he gets to depict all this.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:26</time>
<p>Is it most, is it a white man getting to have the, the final say over</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:31</time>
<p>a man who didn't want to ever be photographed or a picture taken of?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:38</time>
<p>So does this really honor Crazy Horse who really never wanted to be depicted in a</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:44</time>
<p>way that you could see him physically?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:46</time>
<p>So there's a lot of controversy around that.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:49</time>
<p>Um, there's also controversy.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:51</time>
<p>American Indians do not believe in ever, you know, defacing a mountain.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:56</time>
<p>Oh, interesting.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:57</time>
<p>So there, you know, they are, they're changing the nature of it.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:01</time>
<p>So there's a lot of controversy around that.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:04</time>
<p>And, uh, And then, uh, Standing Bear kind of did this on his own.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:10</time>
<p>Oh, really?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:11</time>
<p>So, he didn't, uh, he didn't consult with Crazy Horse, uh, with, uh, Crazy</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:15</time>
<p>Horse's family, which in, uh, in Indian culture, that, it would dictate that.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:20</time>
<p>It would dictate a consensus from the tribe.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:23</time>
<p>Yeah, that's, I mean, I, I can understand that, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:25</time>
<p>I, I mean, God, there's, there's, if you think about it, there's</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:29</time>
<p>really two sides to this.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:32</time>
<p>It's capturing that, that culture, that spirit, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:35</time>
<p>This is a massive effort.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:36</time>
<p>And even today in its unfinished form, it really does kind</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:40</time>
<p>of keep that flame burning.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:42</time>
<p>Yes, it brings awareness.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:43</time>
<p>It does.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:43</time>
<p>It brings awareness, but at the same time, you know, the genesis of</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:46</time>
<p>it, you know, To your point, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:50</time>
<p>He kind of should have consulted the family.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:52</time>
<p>Did the family want this?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:53</time>
<p>If the family had said no, what would he have, would he have picked someone else?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:56</time>
<p>Would he have picked Sitting Bull?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:57</time>
<p>I don't know.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:57</time>
<p>I don't know.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:58</time>
<p>And, and is it an insult to Crazy Horse who never wanted to be photographed?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:02</time>
<p>And now you're making him a permanent mountain?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:05</time>
<p>Like, you're supposed to be honoring Crazy Horse.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:07</time>
<p>Is it really, is it an honor for him?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:09</time>
<p>Yeah, that's an, that's an interesting thing to think about.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:12</time>
<p>Um, you know, if, if you feel like you're honoring him, but...</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:17</time>
<p>You're not, you know, others aren't sure if he would feel honored by that.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:20</time>
<p>Yes.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:20</time>
<p>Yes.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:21</time>
<p>So just things to think about.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:23</time>
<p>But I, you know, you and I both always talk about this as a historian.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:26</time>
<p>We like the conversation.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:27</time>
<p>Sure.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:28</time>
<p>Right.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:28</time>
<p>And, uh, bringing awareness to the conversation, bring awareness</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:32</time>
<p>to his life, bringing awareness to the Lakota Sioux way of life.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:36</time>
<p>and their struggles throughout history, I think, if anything,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:39</time>
<p>that monument does that.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:41</time>
<p>Oh, 100%.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:42</time>
<p>I mean, it's, like anything else, it's, it's a tourist attraction.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:45</time>
<p>Yeah, it's right</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:45</time>
<p>beside Richmond, so most people will go.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:48</time>
<p>Yeah, that attraction will bring in people, and those people</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:50</time>
<p>will learn something about that culture and that way of life.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:54</time>
<p>Yeah, it.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:55</time>
<p>Uh, I really enjoyed it.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:56</time>
<p>I don't think I had done it when I was a kid.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:59</time>
<p>Um, I had seen Rushmore when I was a teenager growing up in California.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:02</time>
<p>We had made a trip out there with family in Montana, but I don't</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:05</time>
<p>remember doing crazy horror.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:07</time>
<p>So that was really neat for me to see and for us to bring the kids.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:09</time>
<p>And I had seen it</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:10</time>
<p>since I was a kid growing up in Wyoming.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:12</time>
<p>So it was neat for me to see how it has changed because in the eighties</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:17</time>
<p>the face wasn't done like it is</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:19</time>
<p>today.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:19</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:20</time>
<p>That was really neat.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:21</time>
<p>So for those listening, I hope you've gained a deeper understanding of the</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:25</time>
<p>significance of Crazy Horse in the context of Native American history</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:30</time>
<p>and the broader American narrative.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:33</time>
<p>As we continue our journey through the annals of history, remember that these</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:36</time>
<p>stories are not just about the past.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:38</time>
<p>They are a reflection of the present and a guide to the future.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:42</time>
<p>So join us next time as we unravel more fascinating history tales from</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:46</time>
<p>the pages of history on this podcast.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:50</time>
<p>If you want to support the future of this podcast, you can</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:52</time>
<p>do that over at topofhistory.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:54</time>
<p>com slash support.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:56</time>
<p>We rely on you community to grow and we appreciate you all every day.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:23:01</time>
<p>We'll talk to you next time.</p>
<p></p>
<p></p>