Appomattox: 5 Unknown Facts About the Civil War Surrender | Road Trip History - Talk With History

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:00:00</time>
Wilber McLean can't seem to get away from the Civil War, right?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:00:03</time>
Because his home is destroyed.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:00:06</time>
He lives in the city of Manassas.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:00:08</time>
Uh, during the first battle of the Civil War, he wants to

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:00:12</time>
move away from the fighting.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:00:13</time>
So he moves to the town of Clover Hill, which becomes the town

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:00:17</time>
of Appomattox Courthouse and.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:00:21</time>
When the surrender takes place, Marshall, who is Lee's a second right hand man,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:00:27</time>
um, aid has to find a suitable place for surrender, and he finds the Wilber

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:00:34</time>
McLean house in Mads Courthouse.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:48</time>
Welcome to Talk With History.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:50</time>
I'm your host Scott here with my wife and historian Jen.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:52</time>
Hello.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:54</time>
On this podcast, we give you insights to our history inspired world travels

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:57</time>
YouTube channel journey, and examine history through deeper conversations

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:01</time>
with the curious, the explorers, and the history lovers out there.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:05</time>
Now, before we get into our main topic tonight, I do want to ask for reviews on

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:09</time>
Apple Podcast, Spotify, wherever you're listening, the reviews really do help us.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:12</time>
To help the show grow and we are still slowly plotting away at chipping away

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:18</time>
at that lead with the History channel.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:20</time>
We're coming after you.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:20</time>
I'm not aware of podcasts that they put on, so maybe, maybe we're ahead

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:25</time>
of them on the podcast, right?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:27</time>
Yes.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:27</time>
I'm just, I'm just

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:01:28</time>
gonna kind of throw, we're gonna have more subscribers

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:01:30</time>
in the History Channel Someday

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:31</time>
we will.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:34</time>
Jen, why don't you tell us what we're talking about today?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:36</time>
One of our, our videos that we just

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:01:38</time>
released.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:01:38</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:01:39</time>
This, uh, video and this podcast is a very important place and moment in time

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:01:47</time>
for any history lever, any adventure, any explorer, because we go to a place

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:01:54</time>
that's a, a bucket list historical

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:56</time>
location.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:57</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:57</time>
And you lead off the video.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:58</time>
I mean, right off with that.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:00</time>
Hey, bucket list.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:01</time>
Place for any history, fan or historian.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:04</time>
Mm-hmm.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:04</time>
So where were we?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:05</time>
We were at

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:02:06</time>
Appomattox Courthouse in Virginia.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:08</time>
So we, we were at Appomattox Courthouse.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:09</time>
So if you don't know, or if you, if you're, if you're just joining

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:12</time>
us for the first time, uh, we just live a couple hours away from there.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:15</time>
We live in Virginia and so we had to get out to Appomattox.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:19</time>
Yes.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:19</time>
And we actually learned a fair amount while we were there.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:23</time>
Like you, you kind of done some research before we got out there,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:26</time>
but, um, one of the things.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:29</time>
That a lot of people didn't know was kind of the whole naming convention.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:32</time>
We kind of led off with that.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:02:33</time>
Yes, because it's always a confusing thing for any historian when

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:02:39</time>
they talk about the surrender of the Civil War, and we'll go into some of the.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:02:45</time>
Feedback we've gotten from people the, this is the official

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:02:50</time>
surrender of the Civil War.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:02:51</time>
This is where Lee and Grant will meet.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:02:54</time>
So you got the commander of the Confederate forces and the commander of

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:02:58</time>
the Union forces are going to meet and actually work out terms of surrender.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:03:03</time>
There are other people, historians who will surmise other moments

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:03:09</time>
and battles that were the actual.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:03:12</time>
Surrendering points or when the thing when tides were turned towards surrender.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:03:18</time>
But this is the actual moment where they're gonna meet officially.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:03:22</time>
And, um, write up terms of surrender.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:03:25</time>
And so I wanna make that very clear.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:03:27</time>
Yeah, we, we, we did, and it's common with, with all of our videos,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:03:31</time>
um, especially the more popular ones that people always kind of jump in.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:03:33</time>
And we actually, we had, we had some folks kind of teach us, you

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:03:36</time>
know, some, some interesting, interesting facts on different videos.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:03:39</time>
Like, you know, The naming convention behind Bull Run

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:03:42</time>
Manasas and things like that?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:03:43</time>
Yes, yes.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:03:44</time>
But for Appomattox specifically, uh, we always, we had a few folks jumping in and

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:03:48</time>
saying, Hey, this wasn't the actual end.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:03:51</time>
Like there was troops over here fighting like a few weeks later.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:03:53</time>
And that's

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:03:54</time>
true because I mean, things aren't, Communication isn't traveling quickly.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:03:58</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:03:59</time>
Right.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:03:59</time>
It's not like it's a phone call.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:00</time>
Okay.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:00</time>
War's over.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:01</time>
It doesn't work that way.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:02</time>
It's

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:04:02</time>
the 1860s.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:04:03</time>
I mean, it takes weeks for a word to get anywhere.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:04:05</time>
To do anything.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:04:06</time>
Exactly.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:06</time>
So yeah, there were people still fighting.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:09</time>
Absolutely.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:09</time>
But this is the official surrender.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:12</time>
What was also interesting is you're gonna, if you're a, you know, moderate historian,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:17</time>
you know the surrender happened in Appomattox Courthouse and it sounds like.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:22</time>
A location, right?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:23</time>
A building.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:23</time>
A building.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:24</time>
And it is a building, but it's also the name of the town.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:29</time>
And the surrender doesn't take place in the actual courthouse

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:34</time>
building of Appomattox.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:36</time>
It takes place in them by clean house.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:38</time>
Which is located in the town of Appomattox

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:04:41</time>
Courthouse.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:04:42</time>
The, the Appomattox Courthouse, the actual building, the courthouse,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:04:47</time>
that's where the visitor

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:48</time>
center is.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:48</time>
Yes.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:49</time>
And that has a great visitor center.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:51</time>
It's very good.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:51</time>
It's very good.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:52</time>
A lot of information.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:53</time>
They have a, a great movie there and I think famous actors are in

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:58</time>
that movie and it sets the tone.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:01</time>
For where you're at and the buildup and what happened,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:05</time>
uh, that day in April in 1865.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:08</time>
So it's a, it's very good to get in there and watch that movie.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:11</time>
Plus they have some artifacts in there.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:13</time>
They have the actual surrender table in there.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:16</time>
So it it, you definitely wanna visit the actual Appomattox Courthouse in Appomattox

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:22</time>
Courthouse cuz it is the visitors

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:05:23</time>
center.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:05:24</time>
Yeah, so it's not, it wasn't the Apax, the actual building, the courthouse

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:05:28</time>
building where the surrender took place.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:05:30</time>
But again, that, that visitor center and some of the other things there, like,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:05:33</time>
they actually probably have one of the best depictions of what it actually looked

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:05:36</time>
like inside of the McLean house when they were sitting down and actually, you

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:05:41</time>
know, signing the, signing the paperwork.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:05:42</time>
Yes.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:05:42</time>
Because they, they pointed out, one of the things that I liked that they

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:05:45</time>
pointed out, they said, Hey, this painting over here, Is very famous

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:05:50</time>
and a lot of people misconstrue that as what actually happened.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:05:53</time>
And it's the painting of Grant and Lee where they're almost like

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:05:56</time>
sitting right at the same table.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:05:58</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:05:58</time>
Right next to each other in the center of the room.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:06:00</time>
And that's actually in historically

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:02</time>
inaccurate.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:02</time>
It's inaccurate.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:03</time>
And also you have George Custer there who, who, he wasn't there in the room.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:06</time>
Uh, George Custer is pinnacle to.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:09</time>
The whole surrender in general, cuz he's the first person to actually

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:12</time>
get the surrender flag or dish towel they use for the surrender.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:16</time>
But he's not in the room when the official surrender

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:20</time>
documents are written out inside.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:22</time>
He's outside, uh, with his men, so, They have him there, I think

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:26</time>
is to pay some, to pay homage to him in his part in the surrender.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:31</time>
But he wasn't in the room.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:32</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:06:32</time>
So from there, we, we were in the actual courthouse itself,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:06:37</time>
which was a visitor center.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:06:38</time>
So we were chit-chatting and this, that and the other.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:06:39</time>
And all of a sudden when we were there, we hear this announcement,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:06:44</time>
you know, the the, the McLean house.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:06:46</time>
If you wanna see the McLean house, it will be closing in like, It's like 10 minutes.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:06:49</time>
10 minutes.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:06:50</time>
It's 15 minutes.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:06:50</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:06:51</time>
You, you have 15 minutes and it's closing for the next 90 minutes.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:06:53</time>
And we're like, oh my gosh, what's going on?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:06:55</time>
We had just gotten there, so we ran over it kind of made our way up.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:06:58</time>
Mm-hmm.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:06:59</time>
And we didn't want to ha like, have to wait to go to the one building

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:01</time>
that we actually went to go see for 90 minutes because they were, you

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:04</time>
know, the people, they were working.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:06</time>
They were, they had to take a lunch

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:07</time>
break.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:08</time>
So we've talked about will.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:10</time>
Mer McLean before, right?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:12</time>
We've talked about him on two separate lo uh, occasions with Walk with History.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:16</time>
We have visited his grave in the Alexandria Cemetery, and we had visited

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:22</time>
kind of the area where his home was in the first Battle of Bull Run,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:27</time>
the first battle of the Civil War.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:29</time>
He is also a historic character of the Civil War because.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:35</time>
Wilber McLean can't seem to get away from the Civil War, right?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:38</time>
Because his home is destroyed.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:41</time>
He lives in the city of Manasas.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:43</time>
Uh, during the first battle of the Civil War, he wants to

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:47</time>
move away from the fighting.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:48</time>
So he moves to the town of Clover Hill, which becomes the town

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:52</time>
of Appomattox Courthouse and.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:56</time>
When the surrender takes place, Marshall, who is Lee's a second

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:01</time>
right hand man, um, aid has to find a suitable place for surrender.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:06</time>
And he finds the Wilber McLean house in Mads courthouse and the the

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:13</time>
surrender takes place in the parlor.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:15</time>
So Wilbur McClean cannot get away from the Civil War.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:18</time>
Yeah, it begins and ends.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:20</time>
Uh, where he lives.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:21</time>
And,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:08:21</time>
and that's, and it's funny, I've mentioned it a couple

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:08:24</time>
times throughout this podcast and videos and things like that.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:08:27</time>
I love the random little historic characters that just pop up and are

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:08:32</time>
well known for some one random thing.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:08:35</time>
And Will McClean is one of those I.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:08:37</time>
And so that just kind of made me smile because now we've kind of visited

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:08:41</time>
where, you know, where the Civil War started, where the Civil War ended,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:08:44</time>
and where Wilman McClean, who was at both of those locations for both

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:08:47</time>
times where he's actually buried.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:51</time>
So it's interesting that the town is called Appomattox Courthouse, and we

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:56</time>
talk a little bit about that in the video.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:00</time>
Clover Hill, that town is about a hundred people, and it's a farming community,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:05</time>
so half of the people are enslaved because when you have farming in the

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:08</time>
south, your laborers are enslaved.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:11</time>
So half of the town is enslaved.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:13</time>
It is along the Lynchburg Stagecoach line, and they decided to build a

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:19</time>
courthouse there for government, for governing, so people in the

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:24</time>
county can come and do their.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:27</time>
Ju ju judicial business.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:30</time>
When a courthouse is established, they start to call that area where the

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:35</time>
courthouse is along the stage line.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:37</time>
They name it after the courthouse.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:40</time>
So even though it's the town of Clover Hill and you Hill Clover Hill Tavern,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:44</time>
Uh, and that is the location where they print all the pardon slips.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:48</time>
After the surrender, it officially becomes the town of Appomattox Courthouse after

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:53</time>
the courthouse is established there.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:55</time>
And that is why.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:57</time>
When people say the surrender happened in Appomattox Courthouse, you're like,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:00</time>
yes, the town of Appomattox Courthouse.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:03</time>
Wilber McClean's house, which isn't very far from Appomattox Courthouse.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:06</time>
So when they said you have 90 minutes, you can just go out the

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:09</time>
front door and it's a straight shot.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:11</time>
Yes.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:12</time>
Maybe 30 yards and it's right there to the left.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:15</time>
Now what's interesting about that home, it's built in 1848,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:19</time>
it, it has a tavern type.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:21</time>
Style to it if you've been to other, uh, colonial Tavern type homes.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:27</time>
But it was in the 1890s.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:31</time>
It was completely taken apart and they had finances who had come in, come

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:36</time>
in and wanted to move it, and they were gonna move it to Washington, DC.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:42</time>
Uh, and make it a museum so people could go in and visit and see where the official

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:47</time>
surrender of the Civil War took place.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:48</time>
So they took it apart, they took plans of it all, and it, and it

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:52</time>
sat there and the financing fell through to actually move it.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:55</time>
So it sat as bricks and wood for about 50 years and people would come

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:00</time>
and take souvenirs and take a break here, take a piece of wood here.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:03</time>
And the, uh, national Park Service bought it, uh, in 1939 and.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:09</time>
Rebuilt it to the specifications that they had, but the civil, the, uh,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:15</time>
world War II breaks out so it, they don't have the financing right away.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:19</time>
So it takes about 10 years to rebuild it.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:21</time>
It opens to the public in 1949.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:24</time>
That's right.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:24</time>
But it is in the same location.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:26</time>
It is built to the specifications.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:28</time>
They have gotten furniture in there to replicate what it looked like,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:32</time>
because we will talk about this.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:33</time>
The actual furniture is in other locations.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:36</time>
But you get the sense of what that looked like that day, what Lee felt, what grant

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:41</time>
felt as they're walking up the steps and the people and the surrounding area.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:46</time>
So it is still very historically relevant and they did use the same

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:51</time>
materials that were left behind.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:53</time>
So it is a very historic place

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:55</time>
to visit.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:55</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:56</time>
And, and the house itself, I mean, even for the time, it must have been pretty

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:59</time>
big cuz it, it's a decent sized house.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:01</time>
Even by, by today's standards when you think of a

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:03</time>
tavern.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:04</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:05</time>
Having to entertain and feed a.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:07</time>
People who come to visit, it does have that kind of feel to it, so

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:11</time>
and so it makes sense that that's where they would pick.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:14</time>
Mm-hmm.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:15</time>
Because it had the space.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:16</time>
Right.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:17</time>
Even the room, you know, the, as you kind of joke, the room where

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:20</time>
it happened, um, you go in there and, and it's a decent sized room.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:24</time>
You could see there was probably, what, 10 ish men in there?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:27</time>
Something like that.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:28</time>
Yes.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:28</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:28</time>
That's 12 men.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:29</time>
Mm-hmm.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:29</time>
And.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:30</time>
So, so it's, it's a decent sized house, very picturesque, right.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:34</time>
With the courthouse on one end.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:36</time>
And then, you know, the, the parking lot where we drove up and parked on the other,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:39</time>
and then there's the McLean house and there's other little, you know, the timing

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:42</time>
when we went, you know, what was that,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:44</time>
April, early May.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:45</time>
The end of April.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:46</time>
So I bet it's very busy the beginning of April since that's the timeframe Oh sure.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:51</time>
Of when the surrender takes place.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:53</time>
Uh, April 9th.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:54</time>
1865, but we got there the end of April, which was perfect weather.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:59</time>
Oh it was.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:59</time>
And not

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:59</time>
very crowded.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:00</time>
It was, it was gorgeous.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:01</time>
If you're ever gonna go visit that, the springtime is, is

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:03</time>
fantastic cuz it was, everything was green, everything was in bloom.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:07</time>
Um, some of the bugs were out a little bit for, for us that

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:09</time>
day, but it wasn't too bad.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:11</time>
Uh, not a lot of it wasn't very crowded.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:13</time>
And they have tons and tons of signs and historic markers.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:17</time>
You can literally just kind of meander around.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:20</time>
Yes.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:20</time>
This small town, I mean now a national park.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:23</time>
And just kind of read everything all

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:25</time>
along the way.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:26</time>
There's actually a hike you can do because Lee's headquarters and

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:30</time>
Grant's headquarters are pretty spaced opposite each other in the area, and

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:36</time>
you can actually hike from one to the other and it kind of goes through the

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:39</time>
town of Appomattox Courthouse and.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:42</time>
You see people out there hiking and walking and things like that, and

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:45</time>
we visited other locations close.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:47</time>
Like we'll talk about the Confederate Cemetery we saw and

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:50</time>
other kind of markers we saw.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:52</time>
But it is a really great location if you wanna spend the day.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:56</time>
Uh, they have picnic tables and like, if you wanna spend the day

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:58</time>
with your family, it's a really great place to kind of walk around.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:01</time>
It kind of reminds me of First Battle Bull run a little bit, maybe

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:05</time>
a very, very, very smaller scale.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:08</time>
Gettysburg.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:10</time>
Type thing.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:11</time>
Sure.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:11</time>
But it's not really a drivable trail like Yorktown or Gettysburg.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:16</time>
It's much more of a walking, but it is pretty much like a day trip.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:22</time>
And I, I loved being out on the, the front steps of the McLean

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:25</time>
house because you really could, and you do a good job of kind of describing,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:29</time>
like imagine, you know, Being here.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:32</time>
Mm-hmm.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:32</time>
And Lee, you know, comes up to the McLean house in his nice, clean uniform,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:37</time>
pressed, you know, all this stuff.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:38</time>
He gets there first.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:39</time>
He's hanging out for, for 30 minutes or so.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:41</time>
30 minutes, so, mm-hmm.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:42</time>
And then up, up comes Grant, just dirty.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:45</time>
He'd been riding mud.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:47</time>
Mud.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:47</time>
You can barely tell he's a general other than buying the jacket that he's wearing.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:51</time>
And you can picture both in this setting.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:53</time>
It's, it's one of those locations.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:55</time>
It's really, really neat.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:56</time>
And you can kind of really feel.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:58</time>
What it was.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:59</time>
What must have been like back then.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:15:00</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:15:01</time>
And I also imagine back then, because you go on to say, to talk about how there

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:15:06</time>
was, what's like 90,000 troops in area?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:15:08</time>
90,000

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:09</time>
troops.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:09</time>
So you think 70, about 70,000 union troops, about 30,000 confederates.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:14</time>
And they're.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:16</time>
Camping out.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:17</time>
I mean, they're not staying in the homes there.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:18</time>
They're put, they're in their makeshift tents.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:20</time>
So when you look at all the greenery in the area, you can imagine these

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:24</time>
troops are camped out everywhere.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:27</time>
So it's very much a busy.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:30</time>
Hustle and bustle, and everyone's kind of watching for what's

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:33</time>
happening in this house.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:34</time>
So what leads up to this, you're gonna get Richmond Falls on April

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:38</time>
3rd, and Lee is leaving Richmond.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:42</time>
Richmond has fallen to the north and he's trying to make it west, and he's trying

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:47</time>
to make it west to meet up with the armies of North Carolina and Tennessee.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:51</time>
And so the union is trying to cut him off before he gets there.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:55</time>
So if you think of Appomattox as kind of west to Richmond, Appomattox,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:00</time>
as I said, is on the stage line.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:02</time>
It's also on the railroad line.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:04</time>
And so Custer gets out there first on, uh, April 7th, and he's able to stop

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:09</time>
these railroad cars that are bringing supplies to the south and he burns them.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:14</time>
And that's when Lee starts to realize that.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:16</time>
He, he's not gonna be able to meet his men.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:18</time>
They're trying to cut him off.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:19</time>
And so Grant will send him a note on the seventh saying,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:24</time>
would you like to surrender?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:25</time>
And Lee is like, not yet, but what would that look like?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:29</time>
It's like, not yet, but what, what, what do you have in mind?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:32</time>
Um, so they're kind of negotiating this.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:34</time>
Lee still thinks maybe there's something that he can do.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:37</time>
Maybe he can make it in time, but Custer and Sherman will actually completely.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:43</time>
Uh, cut off the Army at Appomattox and there's no way that they can rejoin.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:49</time>
And so they do fight a little bit.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:51</time>
You get some fighting on the eighth and ninth, but it's Lee who decides,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:55</time>
uh, even though he says he rather die a thousand deaths, it's Lee who

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:58</time>
decides to send the word to Grant.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:01</time>
Uh, they bring out, you know, they, they, they have the dish towel

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:04</time>
they give to Custer cuz that's who the actual fighting forces, uh,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:09</time>
long Street and Custer will meet.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:11</time>
Custer will stop fighting.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:13</time>
He will go through the line with the towel and they'll like,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:16</time>
let's negotiate, surrender.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:17</time>
They'll get the no to Lee.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:19</time>
Ask Lee to find a location.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:21</time>
They find the McLean house grant will have to ride at like 30

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:25</time>
miles, which is crazy to meet him.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:26</time>
That's why he's so dirty.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:28</time>
And Lee gets there at one.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:32</time>
Grant will get there at one 30 on April 9th.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:36</time>
Lee has been thinking about this.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:37</time>
Of course, he looks very clean, very pressed in his uniform.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:40</time>
Grants has also been thinking about this, but he's exhausted.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:43</time>
He's just hopping off his horse and mud covered and when they've meet, they're

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:49</time>
almost like in awe of each other.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:52</time>
They both study at West Point.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:55</time>
They both are skilled men.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:57</time>
Lee has been the commander of the Confederate forces for

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:00</time>
all four years, five years.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:02</time>
Grant has not.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:04</time>
But Grant has proven himself as a fighter and Grant stands so in awe of Lee.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:10</time>
He doesn't even know what to talk about when he comes in.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:13</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:13</time>
He's like trying to make

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:14</time>
chit

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:14</time>
chat, chit chats about their, both their military experience in

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:17</time>
the, in the Spanish American War.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:19</time>
Let's talk about in the Mexican American world, let's talk

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:22</time>
about what we are doing then.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:23</time>
And Lee's like, okay, um, let's talk about surrender.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:27</time>
So when they sit down to hash out terms of surrender, Like I said,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:32</time>
Lee will have one person with him.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:33</time>
Marshall will be with him.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:34</time>
Grant will have an entourage.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:36</time>
He has um, Sheridan.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:38</time>
He has, uh, Robert Todd Lincoln is with him.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:42</time>
He has Eli Parker, who is of the Seneca American Indian tribe is with

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:46</time>
him, and Eli Parker is the one who's actually the scribe and the terms

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:52</time>
that Lee is asking for, I think.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:55</time>
Are pretty reasonable.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:57</time>
And I think that's why Grant grants them to him.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:59</time>
He asks, most of his men are farmers from the south and they will be

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:05</time>
going back to their farms and a lot of them own their own horses.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:09</time>
And the horses will be, Very valuable and important to farming.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:14</time>
Sure.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:14</time>
Right.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:14</time>
To putting in seeds and all the things that you need on a farm.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:17</time>
And so he asks as if their men own a horse, can they take the horse with them?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:22</time>
And Grant says that's that's fine.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:24</time>
And he also says, because they're farmers and because they're traveling,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:28</time>
can they keep their side arms again, a gun at the time is seen as a tool.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:32</time>
Sure.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:33</time>
It's seen, you know, is.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:35</time>
Hunting for food, all these kind of things that a gun provides.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:39</time>
And Grant also agrees to that.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:42</time>
And he asks that the Confederates sign with their pardon, that they

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:49</time>
will never take up arms again against the Union against America.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:54</time>
And they can keep their horse and they can keep this item.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:56</time>
And that is the terms of surrender.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:19:58</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:19:58</time>
And if I remember correctly, I mean it was, I mean, Lincoln was.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:03</time>
Pretty adamant about, you know, like the healing nature, right?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:08</time>
Mm-hmm.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:09</time>
And not being super harsh with these terms of surrender, right?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:12</time>
And not saying like, Hey, no, I want these people in Prisoned.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:14</time>
Mm-hmm.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:15</time>
I don't, I want execution.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:15</time>
Like he wasn't going for that.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:17</time>
He wanted to kind of just finish this all off.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:20</time>
It sounded like he didn't want to like create martyrs.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:23</time>
Like he, he, but I think you even mentioned it in the

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:25</time>
video, he wanted to create that

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:26</time>
healing.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:27</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:27</time>
He.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:28</time>
He didn't wanna try Davis for treason.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:31</time>
He didn't wanna try Lee for treason there, there was not gonna be some

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:34</time>
kind of big trial and, uh, execution.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:39</time>
Like you said, he didn't want martyrs and he also didn't

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:41</time>
want animosity from the south.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:43</time>
Yeah, he wanted the south to, I mean, people have been fighting for four years.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:46</time>
People have been dying.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:48</time>
Uh, You know, Lincoln had lost a child during this whole time and everyone

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:54</time>
is just very exhausted, uh, war weary, and he just wanted the south to go back

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:01</time>
and be welcomed back into the union.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:05</time>
I, I wouldn't say as effective citizens again, but it also is.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:12</time>
You can't have this underground animosity building back up again.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:17</time>
It has to be you're back.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:19</time>
You're our countrymen.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:21</time>
You've, you've paid your price.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:23</time>
You've lost so many people.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:25</time>
There have been entire towns where every able bodied man

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:29</time>
of 18 to 60 had been killed.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:32</time>
Your economy is decimated.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:35</time>
I mean, that's what happens to McLean is all his money's in the confederacy.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:40</time>
So what, after they do the surrender in his parlor and they take all

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:43</time>
his furniture, sudden he's broke.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:45</time>
He's broke.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:46</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:46</time>
So he can't even keep the house he leaves, goes back to Alexandria.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:49</time>
And so in, in a day, everything that all of these PE men have had and

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:55</time>
their families is worth nothing.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:57</time>
And so Lincoln knows it's gonna be a big rebuilding too, as well.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:02</time>
So he feels like people have paid the price.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:04</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:05</time>
And even I, I think that was even recognized there.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:08</time>
And it's immortalized in different kind of reenactments and videos

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:11</time>
that we've seen out there.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:12</time>
What is it?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:12</time>
Gods in Generals is one of

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:13</time>
the Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:14</time>
Uh, Gettysburg is the big one, but Gods in Generals North and the South.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:19</time>
North and the South.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:20</time>
Um, but, but even, even that, so they, one of the things that they call out both at,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:25</time>
at the National Park and I, I, when I was making the video a couple times in videos,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:29</time>
and they, they, they, they mentioned that, When they had finished signing the

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:33</time>
paperwork, the terms of Surrender, Lee kind of, you know, walks back outside,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:38</time>
he gets on his horse and Grant just kind of gives him this like kind of

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:42</time>
tip of the hat, like takes his hat off.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:43</time>
Salute.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:44</time>
Like not an official military salute, but you know, something

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:46</time>
to acknowledge that it's done.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:49</time>
Mm-hmm.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:50</time>
Right.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:50</time>
And to, and to show that respect and then

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:52</time>
remember, All the union soldiers start to celebrate.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:55</time>
That's right.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:56</time>
They start frying their guns in the air and Grant gets mad.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:59</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:59</time>
Remember right away Stop has them, stop has them shush, has them be quiet.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:04</time>
Has 'em act respectful.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:05</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:06</time>
Because it, it really is a time of rebuilding.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:09</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:10</time>
G it, it is a time of exhaustion when you think about it and because again, we talk

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:16</time>
about the lines of communication and what is happening now and how people travel.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:21</time>
We've talked about.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:22</time>
Passes to travel and people carrying paperwork with them.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:25</time>
They go to print out these 30,000 pardons.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:28</time>
Right.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:29</time>
We talk about 67, almost 70,000 union soldiers.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:34</time>
We have 30,000 federal soldiers.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:35</time>
Well, now that they've all surrendered, they need these passes of Pardon?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:38</time>
That's right.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:39</time>
To travel back to their homes because people are still fighting.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:42</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:43</time>
And so the Clover Tavern, which is close to the Appomattox Courthouse, they put

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:48</time>
in a printing press in the downstairs parlor, a big tavern, and they start

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:52</time>
printing out these 30,000 pardon passes so they can carry these passes with them.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:56</time>
Well, and that's

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:23:57</time>
also how they get the word out.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:23:58</time>
That's how, and you mentioned that in the video, like.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:00</time>
Word.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:01</time>
There's no phones, there's no, you know, nothing like that.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:04</time>
And that's the way they, they get the word out is, is these people

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:08</time>
walking home with this piece of paper saying, yes, the South has essentially

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:11</time>
surrendered and is my path to mm-hmm.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:13</time>
Return home, surrender home.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:15</time>
Um, and so that's another way that the word of the end of the

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:20</time>
civil War finally got spread was as these men were traveling home.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:24</time>
Yes.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:24</time>
And so you get very symbolic the day after.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:28</time>
April 10th, you see, um, Granton Lee will meet one last time, uh,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:32</time>
towards the one, the, the, I think it's the east end of Appomattox.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:38</time>
And they make a very symbolic show.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:41</time>
All the men of this confederacy will leave their rifles, right?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:45</time>
So they're allowed to keep the side arms, or they leave their rifles and they show

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:49</time>
this, um, surrendering of their weapons.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:52</time>
And it's in that moment that people are, Really separating, starting

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:57</time>
to travel back home, starting to, uh, go back to their lives.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:01</time>
And that's also, people acted very respectful of both sides in that moment.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:11</time>
Out on the other side of Appt Courthouse as a Confederate graveyard.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:16</time>
So on the eighth and 9th of April, there was still fighting and there were.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:20</time>
Soldiers who died in the vicinity of Appomattox Courthouse, and they

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:25</time>
basically buried them where they fell.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:28</time>
But a year later, in 1866, these southern women decided to dig up these

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:32</time>
graves and bury them all together.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:34</time>
And they had found 18 confederates in one union soldier.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:37</time>
That's right.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:38</time>
Yes.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:38</time>
And so they put them all in one graveyard.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:40</time>
So when you, when you look at my video on Instagram, there's

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:44</time>
18 confederate flags and one.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:47</time>
Union flag, one American flag in this graveyard.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:50</time>
Uh, because they decided to bury them all side by side.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:52</time>
They were able to identify, I think half of them, the other half are still unknown.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:55</time>
Not actually

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:25:55</time>
in the little Village city area.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:25:58</time>
It's actually, it's probably like half a mile.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:01</time>
Mm-hmm.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:01</time>
Maybe, maybe a mile down, maybe not even a mile.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:04</time>
Um, but you know, you, you drive in, you actually see it on the way in.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:07</time>
Mm-hmm.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:08</time>
And you can come swing by and stop at it on the way out.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:11</time>
It's actually a fairly popular Instagram reel for some reason.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:14</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:14</time>
I think because it's interesting to see confederate flags on graves still.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:19</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:19</time>
I think, and there's a marker there that we also bring attention to.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:23</time>
Yeah, I noticed that.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:24</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:24</time>
I'm, I'm the one who brought it

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:25</time>
to your attention.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:26</time>
It's a very, again, we talk about this lost cause and this.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:30</time>
Southern and I, I wanna talk a little bit about this cuz I think Appomattox

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:34</time>
Courthouse, um, visitor Center does a very good job of telling the story of

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:39</time>
why federal soldiers are fighting, why southern soldiers are fighting, because

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:44</time>
you're gonna get this still today.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:46</time>
These two points of views states right?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:50</time>
Uh, enslavement.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:51</time>
What, what are we fighting?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:52</time>
Who's, what are people fighting for?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:54</time>
What's the cause of the Civil War?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:56</time>
And this marker talks about, um, after the Southern soldiers fought bravely

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:02</time>
for four years, for their rights of their country, uh, Lee surrendered.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:09</time>
And it, it, it really skews the numbers.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:11</time>
Like, oh yeah, it's

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:12</time>
9,000 men.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:13</time>
It's definitely, you know, Old, old Southern

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:16</time>
leaning.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:16</time>
Yes, for sure.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:18</time>
So, and then it looks like they've taken off the whole bottom line that talks

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:21</time>
about Grant and how many men Grant had they just kind of like have stripped it.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:26</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:27</time>
And it's not like it was weather worn because this

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:29</time>
is, this is a metal sign.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:31</time>
These, these, this was intentional.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:33</time>
Somebody like taken off.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:33</time>
Yeah, taken off.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:34</time>
You could still read it.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:35</time>
It was interesting.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:35</time>
So that's interesting.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:36</time>
I, I think it's important to keep those markers up.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:39</time>
Sure.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:39</time>
Because I think it's important to show how people.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:43</time>
Even still wanted to protect the story and protect their ideals

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:47</time>
and what they were fighting for.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:48</time>
And I think Appomattox does a good job.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:53</time>
They talk about why federal soldiers fought.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:55</time>
You got a lot of recent immigrants who joined the union.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:59</time>
They come to America for a reason.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:01</time>
All these immigrants are coming in the 1860s because American liberty

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:05</time>
and independence and prosperity.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:07</time>
So they think if they fight for the union, They're gonna be able to

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:11</time>
preserve that, what they came for.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:13</time>
Oh, right, okay.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:14</time>
They don't wanna lose that.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:16</time>
Interesting.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:16</time>
And so the whole point of keeping America together is all of

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:20</time>
this commerce works together.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:23</time>
All of this American trade and resources, they all work together.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:28</time>
And immigrants who have come here to partake in that, don't want to lose that.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:33</time>
And then they have white Confederate soldiers fought and they talk about

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:37</time>
a crucial motivator for many soldiers was, uh, defense of their homes and

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:41</time>
their families against northern armies.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:43</time>
And whether or not they owned enslaved, they did believe

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:49</time>
in, uh, still a hierarchy.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:52</time>
There was still a hierarchy in their minds, even if they're not

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:54</time>
owning enslaved, that there was a supremacy, uh, based on race.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:59</time>
So, but they, I think, and I think it's true that most.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:05</time>
Southern soldiers are not enslavers.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:07</time>
They don't own enslaved.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:08</time>
Yeah, they weren't, not all of 'em were that rich and, and

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:10</time>
they're fighting because their families are coming under attack.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:15</time>
But we, we do know that enslavement is the cause of the Civil war.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:21</time>
Because, and even though Lincoln, and they make a point to say this, he did not

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:25</time>
advocate for the abolitionist slavery.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:28</time>
So even though Lincoln did not advocate for that running as president,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:31</time>
he never would've won if Sure.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:33</time>
What is happening is he's advocating for the.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:37</time>
No spread of enslavement.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:40</time>
So what's going on with the Missouri Compromise in Kansas is they want to

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:45</time>
spread enslavement to other states because it's a way to have free labor.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:50</time>
It's a way for commerce to work.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:52</time>
And uh, Lincoln wants to stop that because it does hurt the economy

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:57</time>
when you can't pay laborers.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:59</time>
Sure.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:00</time>
And you get all these immigrants coming to America and they are.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:04</time>
Laborers, right?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:05</time>
And so that's what Lincoln is, stopping the spread of enslavement.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:10</time>
And then it will, and then you're gonna have the southern states who

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:13</time>
write their constitutions putting enslavement as part of their cause.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:18</time>
So it does become more so the cause of the Civil War.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:24</time>
And then Lincoln will see.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:27</time>
The strength behind that, right.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:29</time>
And the strength behind the Emancipation Proclamation and the strength behind

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:33</time>
enlisting, uh, uh, black soldiers.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:35</time>
And it really gets full momentum during the Civil War.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:39</time>
And I think the, uh, a Mads Courthouse does a very good job of

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:42</time>
telling that story because it's.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:45</time>
An honest

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:30:46</time>
story.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:30:47</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:30:47</time>
It's not, it's it's not leaning one way or the other.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:30:49</time>
Not leaning one way or the other.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:30:50</time>
This is how it

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:51</time>
was.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:51</time>
Mm-hmm.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:51</time>
And I then people can really understand why you can still, uh, needle in

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:58</time>
those kind of beliefs that are still kind of fought against today.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:02</time>
Right.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:02</time>
Uh, you can still see where that comes from.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:04</time>
That's interesting.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:05</time>
Cause I had never.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:06</time>
I had probably heard it right again, but not, not being the

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:09</time>
person that latched on a history.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:10</time>
Mm-hmm.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:10</time>
As I was going through my younger year education, I had never kind of

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:14</time>
considered that Lincoln was would on the economic side of the slavery debate

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:20</time>
back then was, Hey, I want these people coming to our country so that they

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:24</time>
can earn a living and help build this nation and this, that and the other.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:29</time>
And that wouldn't happen if slavery continued to spread.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:33</time>
Mm-hmm.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:33</time>
Because that's Essent, you know.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:35</time>
Enslavement is, is free labor.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:37</time>
Mm-hmm.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:37</time>
You know, quote unquote.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:38</time>
And so that, to your point, that is kind of counteracting, you know, being

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:43</time>
able to grow at a true workforce mm-hmm.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:47</time>
Um, for people coming in.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:48</time>
So I, I hadn't really considered that, that piece of it.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:51</time>
And obviously that's one.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:53</time>
Aspect Sure.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:54</time>
Of the entire debate.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:55</time>
Sure.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:56</time>
But that was probably the, the genesis of some of it from the econo

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:59</time>
economic side, all of the money.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:32:00</time>
Mm-hmm.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:32:00</time>
You, you follow the money.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:32:01</time>
Mm-hmm.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:32:02</time>
And then from there, people start digging in their heels and they're like, well,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:32:05</time>
we're just gonna write it into ours.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:32:06</time>
State constitution.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:32:07</time>
Yep.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:32:07</time>
Slavery is okay.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:32:08</time>
And you know, this, that and the other.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:32:10</time>
Um, so it's.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:32:11</time>
That's interesting to kind of, I've always heard that.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:32:14</time>
Mm-hmm.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:32:14</time>
But that's, that's an interesting way of kind of clarifying that, that

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:17</time>
piece of it.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:18</time>
Yeah, and I, I think Appomattox, that's why I really appreciate

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:20</time>
Appomattox Courthouse, is they're really preserving, they're not

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:25</time>
really pushing one way or the other.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:27</time>
They're showing what actually happened and how those ideas.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:30</time>
Slowly formed and got stronger throughout the Civil War and I,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:36</time>
that is actually what did happen, and so I really appreciated that.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:44</time>
We talked a little bit about the furniture in the McLean house.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:46</time>
Yeah, so we visited.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:51</time>
Uh, the National History Museum at the Smithsonian in Washington DC and the

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:55</time>
chairs from the surrender are there.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:59</time>
The chair that Lee sat in, the chair, that grant sat in or at the Smithsonian

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:03</time>
in DC there's recreation of those chairs.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:06</time>
They look almost identical.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:07</time>
Yep.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:08</time>
In the in app, in the McLean House.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:11</time>
In Appomattox Courthouse.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:12</time>
And the table.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:14</time>
Uh, I think there's a table in Chicago and there's a table in the actual

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:20</time>
Appomattox courthouse, which were the actual tables that were there.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:24</time>
Now, when the surrender actually takes place, you get Custer is

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:30</time>
probably the worst of this union.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:33</time>
Soldiers buying furniture or just taking furniture from the McLean house.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:37</time>
Sure, yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:37</time>
Soldiers being soldiers, they take the chairs.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:40</time>
Custer will take the table and the.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:44</time>
The truce flag.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:45</time>
Yeah, the dish towel that he gets.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:46</time>
And people will take the chairs.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:48</time>
B, buy the chairs, and pretty much McLean's house

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:51</time>
has cleaned out a furniture.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:53</time>
Everybody just takes stuff.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:55</time>
That poor guy, so.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:56</time>
So this is also another reason why he leaves, because now his house

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:00</time>
has been stripped of furniture.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:02</time>
And his money's worth nothing.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:05</time>
And so he goes back to Alexandria to make a living.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:07</time>
The house will go into foreclosure.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:08</time>
We talked about this and then it gets taken apart.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:11</time>
But, uh, when Custer Custer's killed at the Battle of the Big

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:14</time>
Horn and his wife will go on a campaign to build up his name.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:18</time>
That's why we know Custer so well today.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:20</time>
Cuz his wife really did a good job of interesting building his interest.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:23</time>
Uh, she will donate the, the flag and the table back to the Smithsonian.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:31</time>
Upon her death.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:32</time>
So you can see the truth flag in the Smithsonian.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:35</time>
Yep.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:34:36</time>
And then the, the desk is at, the

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:37</time>
desk is at, uh, appro Appomattox Courthouse.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:40</time>
So if you wanna visit those things, that's, we're there.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:44</time>
And we talked about Eli Parker a little bit.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:48</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:48</time>
He was the Seneca Soldier who was there, uh, from the American af,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:54</time>
American Indian tribe that was there.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:55</time>
He had a conversation with.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:58</time>
We, yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:34:59</time>
You liked you,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:59</time>
you liked that.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:00</time>
I liked it because, uh, it kind of reminds me a little bit of

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:03</time>
what the surgeon said with Reagan.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:05</time>
Oh, yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:05</time>
You know, today, sir, we're all republicans a as Eli Parker and,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:10</time>
uh, Marshall are, are working out the terms, the surrender.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:13</time>
They're writing it.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:13</time>
Yeah, they're, they're describing it all out.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:14</time>
They're describing it out.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:15</time>
Lee asks, uh, Parker, you know, if he's American Indian?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:19</time>
He says, yes, I'm of the Seneca tribe.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:21</time>
And he goes, it's good.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:21</time>
It's good to have one true American here.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:24</time>
And he responds to Lisa.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:26</time>
We are all Americans.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:28</time>
And I just loved that.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:35:30</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:35:30</time>
And, and especially for that time period as well.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:35:33</time>
Like, it, it gives you just a little bit more insight into the mind that

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:35:37</time>
was, you know, general Lee, right?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:35:40</time>
Like, that's just not a comment that you would expect in, in,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:35:44</time>
in that historical setting.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:35:45</time>
And that's maybe just me being un uneducated there, but I don't

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:35:48</time>
think that sentiment was common

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:50</time>
back then.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:51</time>
No.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:51</time>
And I don't think so either.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:52</time>
And I think, again, four years of fighting really.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:57</time>
Of war weariness.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:59</time>
What are we fighting for?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:36:00</time>
What are we killing each other for?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:36:01</time>
I think those kind of sentiments are coming through.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:36:05</time>
Yeah, it was, it was a ton of fun.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:36:06</time>
It's easy for kids too, right?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:36:08</time>
If you ever wanna bring kids there.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:36:10</time>
We, I mean, we just kind of cut 'em loose outside.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:36:13</time>
Um, there's stuff you can see behind the McLean House and Slaves quarters

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:36:16</time>
kind of showing your classic, that kind of era, the separated

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:36:19</time>
kitchen, separated quarters mm-hmm.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:36:21</time>
And, and things like that.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:36:22</time>
Um, but other buildings to see, you know, the.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:36:25</time>
The gift shop was great.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:36:27</time>
Um, they had like, uh, you could go in and see like the prison, right?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:36:30</time>
You know, where they would, they mm-hmm.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:36:31</time>
They held, you know, certain folks behind the courthouse.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:36:33</time>
Behind the courthouse.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:36:34</time>
The general store, general store and all sorts of things to just

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:36:37</time>
kind of walk around and do.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:36:39</time>
Great afternoon.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:36:40</time>
There's not much too close to there.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:36:42</time>
So we actually have another video that, that I made while we were

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:36:45</time>
there, kind of tips and tricks of, of visiting Appomattox Courthouse.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:36:48</time>
So be on the lookout for that.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:36:49</time>
To, to come out on the Walk with History YouTube channel soon.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:36:52</time>
But for those listening, thank you for listening to the Talk with History

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:36:55</time>
podcasts, and please reach out to us at our website, talk with history.com.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:36:59</time>
But more importantly, if you know someone else that might enjoy

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:37:01</time>
this podcast, please share it with them, especially if you think that

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:37:05</time>
today's topic with Anna is a friend.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:37:06</time>
Shoot 'em a text and tell 'em to look us up.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:37:08</time>
We rely on you, our community to grow, and we appreciate you all every day.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:37:13</time>
We'll talk to you next time.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:37:14</time>
Thank

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