Visiting Los Alamos, New Mexico: The Manhattan Project Road Trip

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<p>Imagine heading high into the isolated mountains of northern New Mexico in 1943.</p>
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<p>The address on your mail is just a nondescript post office box in Santa Fe.</p>
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<p>You can't tell your parents, your siblings, or your closest friends where</p>
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<p>you are going or what you are doing.</p>
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<p>To enter, you have to pass through a guarded security checkpoint where</p>
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<p>a woman named Dorothy McKibbin verifies your credentials before</p>
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<p>granting you access up the plateau.</p>
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<p>On any official map of the United States, this place does not exist.</p>
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<p>Just months earlier, this high desert mesa was home to a quiet outdoor boys school.</p>
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<p>But under an eviction notice from the Secretary of War, the federal government</p>
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<p>seized the land and transformed it almost overnight into Project Y, a</p>
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<p>secret makeshift city of thousands of scientists, military personnel, and</p>
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<p>families racing against Nazi Germany to harness the power of the atom.</p>
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<p>Led by J. Robert Oppenheimer and General Leslie Groves, this hidden enclave became</p>
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<p>the birthplace of the atomic age, forever altering the landscape of the world.</p>
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<p>Welcome to Talk With History.</p>
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<p>One filmmaker, one historian, leading history-inspired world</p>
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<p>travels for the curious, the history lovers, and the explorer in us all.</p>
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<p>I am your host, Scott, here with my, my wife and historian, Jenn.</p>
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<p>Hello.</p>
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<p>Today, we're taking a detour from our Route 66 centennial road trip.</p>
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<p>While Route 66 winds through Albuquerque, we decided to steer the car north into</p>
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<p>the mountains to visit one of the most pivotal and guarded sites in American</p>
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<p>Los Alamos, New Mexico.</p>
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<p>It's not your everyday Route 66 stop, but standing up on the</p>
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<p>hill where the Manhattan Project took shape is unforgettable.</p>
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<p>We're walking you past the original main gate checkpoint, exploring</p>
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<p>General Groves' quarters in the 1918 ranch house infirmary, and visiting</p>
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<p>the stone cottage where Oppenheimer lived with his wife, Kitty, and</p>
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<p>their young children during the war.</p>
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<p>We'll also break down how an entire secret city grew to over 10,000</p>
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<p>residents, the critical roles played by the Women's Army Corps on the Mesa,</p>
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<p>and the re- the relentless two-year race that led from a ranch in the hills</p>
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<p>of New Mexico straight to the Trinity test and the end of World War II.</p>
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<p>I'm Scott Bennie, so check your clearance badge at the gate.</p>
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<p>We're stepping inside the secret city of Los Alamos.</p>
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<p>All right, Jenn.</p>
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<p>I made it through that last line of the intro.</p>
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<p>I edited it out, but for, for those of us, for those of you who are lifetime</p>
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<p>members of the History Road Trip or of our app, which is History or Drive,</p>
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<p>there is a private Facebook group just for lifetime members, and every</p>
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<p>now and then we put outtakes on there of us screwing lines up or whatever,</p>
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<p>or Jenn yelling at me off-camera-</p>
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<p>or me scolding her off-camera.</p>
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<p>Um, so if you guys wanna be a part of that private Facecr- Facebook group, um, you</p>
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<p>can become… You can do that by becoming a lifetime member of History or Drive.</p>
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<p>That's at historyordrive.com.</p>
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<p>That's our history travel app, and, uh, I've been doing a lot</p>
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<p>of updates to that recently.</p>
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<p>There's a lot of great stuff in there.</p>
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<p>And if you travel around doing History Road Trip travels, our, our</p>
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<p>lifetime members have shown us that they've used it on their travel.</p>
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<p>So check it out, historyordrive.com.</p>
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<p>But we're not here to talk about that.</p>
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<p>We're here to talk about Los Alamos.</p>
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<p>So Jenn, let's, let's talk about this secret city.</p>
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<p>So we… This is a part of our R- Route 66 trip.</p>
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<p>Yes.</p>
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<p>And so most people know Route 66.</p>
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<p>It's the 100 anniversary, 1926.</p>
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<p>Uh, that's what we're celebrating.</p>
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<p>But Santa Fe was part of that original route, and it kinda takes you up past</p>
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<p>Albuquerque up to Santa Fe because that was kind of a popular city.</p>
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<p>This is north of Santa Fe, about 30 miles.</p>
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<p>Yeah.</p>
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<p>But it's very hilly, and it's, uh, switchbacks, so when you…</p>
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<p>It's not, it's not 30 minutes.</p>
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<p>Like, you have to be careful when you drive up there because w-</p>
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<p>It's probably a good 45 minutes to an hour</p>
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<p>… we're driving into altitude, and when you're driving up into kind of a, a more</p>
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<p>r- rural area, which it really was then.</p>
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<p>Now it's a built-up city.</p>
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<p>But, um, in 1937 is when they cut off Santa Fe in, uh, for, for</p>
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<p>Route 66, and they took basically 100 miles away, and you just go</p>
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<p>right through Albuquerque instead.</p>
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<p>Uh, so we wanted to do that original route and always wanted</p>
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<p>to visit Los Alamos because of its significance in American history.</p>
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<p>Yeah.</p>
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<p>And like Scott alluded to, uh, this was the race for the atomic bomb.</p>
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<p>This was during World War II, and it was really the race between the</p>
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<p>Allied forces and the Axis forces.</p>
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<p>Uh, Germany, Germany was the first to, to understand the power</p>
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<p>of splitting the uranium atom.</p>
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<p>They had done it in 1938.</p>
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<p>And they had done it, but they hadn't understood the nuclear chain</p>
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<p>reaction that can happen, and they didn't know how to harness it.</p>
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<p>Yeah, Albert Einstein had written that letter to America to s- telling them,</p>
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<p>"The Germans are doing this." And because Einstein is, uh, Jewish, right, and</p>
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<p>because he's seen the Germans do this, and he's knowing what already in 1938</p>
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<p>what, uh, Hitler is doing with the, uh, antisemitism, uh, he's afraid of</p>
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<p>they don't understand quite yet what they've unleashed, and so he wants to</p>
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<p>make sure America is aware of this.</p>
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<p>So-</p>
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<p>So, so he, he sees the writing on the wall.</p>
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<p>He sees the writing on the wall.</p>
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<p>Okay.</p>
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<p>And if you saw the movie Oppenheimer, it really is Einstein talking to</p>
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<p>Oppenheimer, kind of letting them know the seriousness of this.</p>
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<p>Okay.</p>
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<p>Uh, and so that is what's happening here, is they know that Germany has this power,</p>
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<p>but they don't know yet how to contain it, and, um, the Americans, especially</p>
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<p>the American, um, government, starts to see the importance of scientists</p>
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<p>who are leaving Germany, right?</p>
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<p>They're escaping from Germany, but they understand the</p>
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<p>power that the Germans have.</p>
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<p>And it is, at this time, we've talked about this before,</p>
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<p>this great race of technology.</p>
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<p>Yeah.</p>
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<p>Right?</p>
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<p>America and Germany are really racing each other with who can be the</p>
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<p>quickest to build better ships and better planes and better submarines.</p>
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<p>And so it really is this race of technology, and so this is the,</p>
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<p>the, the chemistry side of it.</p>
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<p>And what's interesting is Hitler really doesn't put emphasis into this.</p>
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<p>He doesn't see the power of this, and that is what's so great about these German</p>
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<p>scientists, you know, um, Einstein, who do see the power of it, and they're able</p>
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<p>to get the attention of the Americans.</p>
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<p>And the Americans believe them and believe that, and so that's when they</p>
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<p>get this joint operation, and w- we really talk about this in Los Alamos.</p>
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<p>We really talk about Leslie, g- General, um, Leslie Groves-</p>
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<p>Yep … and Robert Oppenheimer.</p>
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<p>Like, they are really the power behind this, and the money and the people that go</p>
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<p>into this, you can see this at Los Alamos.</p>
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<p>And it's really great that America put the emphasis on this.</p>
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<p>Germany put their emphasis on rockets and, uh, other technologies like that because</p>
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<p>they didn't think… They thought they would win the war before the atomic race-</p>
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<p>Mm</p>
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<p>… had started.</p>
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<p>They thought they would have the war won before this even, so they didn't</p>
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<p>put a lot of emphasis into this.</p>
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<p>And at the beginning, the Americans really feel like they're</p>
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<p>neck and neck with the Germans.</p>
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<p>Like, they're really, we're coinciding, we're racing each other.</p>
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<p>It's in 1944 they start to realize that Germany is way behind, and they're</p>
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<p>way ahead, and so they just keep going because they wanna make sure that they</p>
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<p>have understood this atomic process.</p>
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<p>So that was projects like the atomic bomb, the B-29, with how</p>
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<p>massive that aircraft was and the extended range that it provided.</p>
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<p>Like, that, those were kind of the big technological leaps really</p>
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<p>of the era, along with everything else that we did during the war.</p>
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<p>Now, you said kind of America said, "Yep, we believe you, Einstein."</p>
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<p>Mm-hmm.</p>
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<p>Right?</p>
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<p>We're gonna bring all these scientists together, Oppenheimer</p>
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<p>obviously leading that charge.</p>
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<p>Did they essentially kind of find Los Alamos because it, we need… They were</p>
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<p>like, "Hey, we need someone, somewhere that's out of the way, off the grid.</p>
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<p>This is, you know- GS-14 classified</p>
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<p>So they picked Los Alamos because of Oppenheimer.</p>
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<p>Oh.</p>
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<p>He had vacationed there as a kid.</p>
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<p>He had gone to those camps.</p>
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<p>Oh.</p>
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<p>He had se- and he loved it there.</p>
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<p>I didn't know that.</p>
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<p>And he loved the isolationist of it there.</p>
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<p>And what's really neat is a lot of Los Alamos is funded by</p>
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<p>the University of California.</p>
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<p>You get a lot of Berkeley people, and so you get a lot of their</p>
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<p>laboratories that are funding this.</p>
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<p>So it's close enough to California, and it's isolated enough that Groves</p>
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<p>completely agrees with his idea to take this location and make it our top sec-</p>
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<p>So-</p>
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<p>… top secret location</p>
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<p>… so Oppenheimer had been to the boys school, the ranch that was there.</p>
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<p>Mm-hmm.</p>
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<p>Yes.</p>
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<time>00:09:22</time>
<p>Oh, I didn't know that.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:09:23</time>
<p>And</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:09:23</time>
<p>he- That's interesting</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:09:24</time>
<p>and he loved it.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:09:24</time>
<p>He loved, he loved the area.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:09:26</time>
<p>He loved what it provided for his, you know, for h- his soul</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:09:31</time>
<p>and how he could relax and- And,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:09:32</time>
<p>and, and I'm glad you brought that up because, right, we focus on kind of h-</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:09:36</time>
<p>historic travel and things like that.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:09:37</time>
<p>Mm-hmm.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:09:37</time>
<p>It was m- more beautiful up there than I expected.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:09:40</time>
<p>It was…</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:09:40</time>
<p>It had that very mountain town vibe to it.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:09:44</time>
<p>It… You think Los Alamos, you think New Mexico, and you tend to</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:09:47</time>
<p>think kind of desert landscape.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:09:49</time>
<p>Mm-hmm.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:09:49</time>
<p>But this was, like you said, it was up at altitude, so it was cooler up there.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:09:53</time>
<p>It was actually really nice 'cause we were smack in the, you know, the, the</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:09:56</time>
<p>end of July when we were getting up there, and it was really nice up there.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:09:59</time>
<p>And, and it was scenic, and it was this… Again, it had this little</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:10:03</time>
<p>mountain town vibe that kind of reminded me of, like, in Southern California,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:10:07</time>
<p>people from there, like Idyllwild or, or, or other little spots like that.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:10:12</time>
<p>So I was kind of surprised at, at how, just kind of what it was up there.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:10:16</time>
<p>I was pleasantly surprised.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:10:17</time>
<p>It was really nice.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:10:18</time>
<p>Yeah, so this was a, a ranch school opened in 1917, and the goal was providing</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:10:23</time>
<p>an Ivy League education with rugged ranching and outdoor opportunities.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:10:27</time>
<p>Ah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:10:27</time>
<p>So that's kind of… I mean, you can imagine Oppenheimer has that.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:10:30</time>
<p>He's Ivy League, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:10:31</time>
<p>He's a smart guy.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:10:32</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:10:32</time>
<p>Well, and i- if you think about it, for boys- Mm-hmm</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:10:34</time>
<p>especially in that era, there's no, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:10:37</time>
<p>Y- y- technology's not really as much a thing.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:10:39</time>
<p>It's, it's getting outside and doing stuff.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:10:41</time>
<p>Yeah, and it ve- it very much reminded me of kind of like a Boy</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:10:43</time>
<p>Scout kind of school- Sure … kind of thing or Boy Scout camping area.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:10:46</time>
<p>And so they had built- Cottages, some log cabins, you know, places</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:10:51</time>
<p>to eat and stuff like that, like a camp, like you would go to camp.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:10:54</time>
<p>And so that's what they commandeered, and that's what, like you said, the</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:10:58</time>
<p>Secretary of War had sent a letter saying, "We take over your spot."</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:11:03</time>
<p>Yeah, that was really interesting to me because, you know, it's, the American</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:11:08</time>
<p>government doesn't typically do that.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:11:10</time>
<p>Right now, espe- and they were, they'd done it a lot in the past, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:11:13</time>
<p>Obviously we're talking history stuff, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:11:15</time>
<p>But this is 19- the 1940s, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:11:17</time>
<p>This is, this is very uncommon, but it was so important to the war effort.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:11:23</time>
<p>And, uh, that to me, I, was just very interesting because even in</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:11:27</time>
<p>the video, we show a clip of the actual, basically like the eviction</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:11:30</time>
<p>notice Yeah … from the Secretary, from the Secretary of War, um- Yeah</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:11:35</time>
<p>the De- Department of War to this boys school.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:11:38</time>
<p>Yeah, so in January of 1943, they send a letter.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:11:41</time>
<p>They have the letter there on the wall, and it's one of those Too bad.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:11:47</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:11:47</time>
<p>Like, you're not, you, you're not gonna … I, I don't know if</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:11:50</time>
<p>you're gonna be compensated what it's worth, but you have to leave.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:11:54</time>
<p>Like, we're taking this, and it really doesn't matter.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:11:57</time>
<p>It's for the war effort.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:11:58</time>
<p>Now, this is 1943, so we've been at war… Actually, it's, like, the end of 1942.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:12:02</time>
<p>Um, been at war almost a year now, so people are very much</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:12:06</time>
<p>into the war effort anyway.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:12:08</time>
<p>And yeah, so it's very interesting.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:12:10</time>
<p>Uh, Oppenheimer, uh, he's the leading figure in the collaboration</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:12:14</time>
<p>here, and he tells Leslie Groves that he really likes this location,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:12:17</time>
<p>and Groves really likes it, too.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:12:19</time>
<p>Uh, he likes the, the fact that h- the site is, uh, remote, and it has</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:12:25</time>
<p>some infrastructure already developed by the ranch school, particularly</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:12:28</time>
<p>the Fuller Lodge, which we go to.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:12:31</time>
<p>It's now the museum.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:12:32</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:12:32</time>
<p>And so they have buildings already there.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:12:35</time>
<p>It's not like they have to build stuff from scrap.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:12:37</time>
<p>There's some…</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:12:38</time>
<p>There's an infirmary there.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:12:39</time>
<p>I think that's where Groves liked to stay.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:12:42</time>
<p>So there were some log cabins, and it's very log cabin-y-</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:12:46</time>
<p>Yeah … when you're there.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:12:47</time>
<p>There was some stuff there that they could commandeer, but he liked that remote</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:12:51</time>
<p>structure because then he could control.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:12:53</time>
<p>Like you said, we talked about the gate.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:12:55</time>
<p>You can control people getting in and out of the area.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:12:57</time>
<p>You can protect the area.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:12:59</time>
<p>And what's interesting is, um, the max population, uh, before the project was</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:13:07</time>
<p>about 600 people, and then by the time the project is done, they have 10,000</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:13:12</time>
<p>people living- Yeah … in the town.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:13:13</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:13:13</time>
<p>And you have to understand, they opened the laboratory in 1943.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:13:18</time>
<p>They have their first successful Trinity test in 1945, in about the end of 1945.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:13:23</time>
<p>So in two years they get 10,000 people up there, and 42% of</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:13:30</time>
<p>those personnel are military.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:13:32</time>
<p>Because you have to think, this is a really joint effort here between</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:13:35</time>
<p>the military and the civilian sector.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:13:37</time>
<p>Yeah, so, like, the other 60%-ish are probably family</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:13:40</time>
<p>and support and all that stuff.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:13:41</time>
<p>Mm-hmm.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:13:42</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:13:43</time>
<p>The military's not bringing their family, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:13:44</time>
<p>Right.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:13:45</time>
<p>So it's all of the scientists and the physicists that are</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:13:47</time>
<p>bringing their families.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:13:48</time>
<p>And so much so when they open the school there, and they open</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:13:51</time>
<p>a school with 140 students, 16 teachers, most of those teachers are</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:13:55</time>
<p>wives of- Yeah … the physicists.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:13:58</time>
<p>So, and it's their children that they're teaching.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:14:02</time>
<p>So the military brings in a lot of WACs, and we ha- this is very interesting.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:14:06</time>
<p>They have a whole area dedicated to these women, Army Corps.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:14:10</time>
<p>They bring in about 300 of them, and they do a lot of the logistical</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:14:15</time>
<p>work- Mm-hmm … there, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:14:16</time>
<p>The typing, the memos, all these things that you see.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:14:19</time>
<p>I mean, this is 1940s.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:14:21</time>
<p>Everything's still done by letter and telegram and typewriter, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:14:25</time>
<p>Snail mail.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:14:26</time>
<p>And so they're typing up all the plans.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:14:28</time>
<p>They're typing up all the programs.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:14:30</time>
<p>What's interesting, though, when you go there, is you learn</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:14:32</time>
<p>that how much people didn't know about what each other were doing.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:14:37</time>
<p>It very was compartmentalized- Mm</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:14:39</time>
<p>what your job was, and they made that so nobody could understand the bigger</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:14:46</time>
<p>ramifications of what's going on here.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:14:48</time>
<p>Yeah,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:14:48</time>
<p>and that's the kinda typical kinda military compartmentalization where</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:14:52</time>
<p>that's how they keep the, like you said, the overall project more secret-</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:14:57</time>
<p>Mm-hmm … by compartmentalizing, and only a few key folks actually know</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:15:01</time>
<p>or understand the, the big picture.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:15:02</time>
<p>Yes, and so w- it's now run by the National Park Service.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:15:06</time>
<p>Yep.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:15:06</time>
<p>And, uh, and so when you go there, you can go to the National Park site.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:15:10</time>
<p>Now, that's not anything in particular, that site.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:15:13</time>
<p>It's just a building now.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:15:14</time>
<p>Uh, but they give you the map to go and see the Fuller Lodge, the guest cottages.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:15:22</time>
<p>And it's pretty walkable too.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:15:23</time>
<p>It's pretty walkable.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:15:24</time>
<p>Mm. Now, I will say, kinda we're talking some, some travel tips here.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:15:27</time>
<p>When you're driving up there, there's a gas station that you can stop</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:15:30</time>
<p>at if you want before you get up, but it's a pretty well-built city.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:15:32</time>
<p>So there's gas stations up there and grocery stores, stuff like that.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:15:35</time>
<p>But as you're driving in, one of the things we show first on the video</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:15:38</time>
<p>is the actual, the old, the, the…</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:15:41</time>
<p>It's actually at the actual location of the outpost, the guard post that</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:15:45</time>
<p>you would have to check in before you're going into Los Alamos.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:15:48</time>
<p>So it actually has the old-school sign, and they have pictures of the</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:15:52</time>
<p>old sign from the 1940s, and it matches exactly with the sign that's up there.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:15:56</time>
<p>So that was, that was kinda neat.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:15:57</time>
<p>But what it is now is actually just, like, a public restroom.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:16:00</time>
<p>Yes.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:16:00</time>
<p>So And I recommend stopping- Yeah … 'cause it's really good.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:16:03</time>
<p>You've just driven those 40 minutes to get there, and you're like, "Oh, the</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:16:07</time>
<p>sign." But that's… But if you're going to the National Park, it's about three</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:16:10</time>
<p>miles away, so you're like, "Is that…"</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:16:12</time>
<p>Yeah, I would… As you're driving into Los Alamos, stop there first.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:16:15</time>
<p>Mm-hmm.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:16:16</time>
<p>Right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:16:16</time>
<p>Stop at the… You can use the restroom if you wanna use the restroom.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:16:18</time>
<p>But you can take a picture.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:16:19</time>
<p>There's some kinda good scenery, and a- and for those watching the</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:16:22</time>
<p>video, I'll show video clips of it.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:16:24</time>
<p>Um, but you can stop there, take your pictures, then you can go into the city.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:16:27</time>
<p>We actually didn't realize that.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:16:29</time>
<p>We drove past it and came back later.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:16:32</time>
<p>But if you're, as you're driving into the city, if you're listening to this</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:16:35</time>
<p>on your way up, go ahead and stop there, and then you can kinda just</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:16:38</time>
<p>continue on up after you've gotten out, stretched your legs, taken pictures.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:16:41</time>
<p>So when you get to the National Park site, you are gonna do…</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:16:45</time>
<p>They have a walking tour.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:16:46</time>
<p>It's a very easy place to park your car-</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:16:50</time>
<p>Walk around</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:16:50</time>
<p>… and walk around, and that's basically what you can do.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:16:53</time>
<p>Now, they do offer Great tours into the actual deep locations, where</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:17:00</time>
<p>the Trinity site took place, where, uh, the different bunkers were that</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:17:05</time>
<p>people were at deeper into Los Alamos.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:17:08</time>
<p>Those are only available certain times of the year and by lottery.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:17:12</time>
<p>So that's not the typical tour you're going to do.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:17:15</time>
<p>The typical tour will be these sites where the physicists lived</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:17:20</time>
<p>and where they ate- Yeah … and where they went to the movies.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:17:24</time>
<p>You</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:17:24</time>
<p>can see Oppenheimer's house.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:17:25</time>
<p>Yes, you can see Oppenheimer's house, which I heard is going</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:17:29</time>
<p>to be open for tours eventually, but you can go to the outside.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:17:33</time>
<p>And if you saw the movie, uh, they depict it in the movie.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:17:36</time>
<p>And so you can stand there.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:17:37</time>
<p>This is where he lives with Kitty.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:17:38</time>
<p>It's where they h- they have one child while they're there.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:17:41</time>
<p>They raise their other child there.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:17:42</time>
<p>And so you get to see how it's right next door to the other physicists' houses, and</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:17:47</time>
<p>it's neat because it's almost like they're trying to make it a little neighborhood-</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:17:52</time>
<p>Yeah</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:17:52</time>
<p>and have some semblance of-</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:17:56</time>
<p>Normalcy</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:17:56</time>
<p>… normalcy there.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:17:58</time>
<p>And so I thought that was very neat.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:17:59</time>
<p>But it's really cool to do the tour.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:18:01</time>
<p>Go to the visitor center first.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:18:02</time>
<p>You're gonna walk around the pond, and then the first thing</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:18:04</time>
<p>you see will be the statues.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:18:06</time>
<p>And so we have, uh, videos from that, but there's a statue of General Leslie</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:18:10</time>
<p>Groves and a statue of Robert Oppenheimer because these are the two heads, the</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:18:16</time>
<p>two men, the two visionaries behind the entire Manhattan Project, and one</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:18:21</time>
<p>represents the military and the money.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:18:24</time>
<p>I mean, we're gonna get into the billions of dollars here.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:18:27</time>
<p>Yeah, back then.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:18:27</time>
<p>And then Oppenheimer, the, the brains behind it, and how they both had to</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:18:32</time>
<p>come together, and with such vision.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:18:35</time>
<p>understand how they could do this and the possibilities of it.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:18:39</time>
<p>And really, when you think they do it in two years.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:18:41</time>
<p>It's, it's pretty wild.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:18:42</time>
<p>Now, the museum is one of the spots that we went first.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:18:45</time>
<p>So that we went to the visitor's center at the, for the national</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:18:48</time>
<p>park, kinda got the lay of the land, did some walking around outside.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:18:51</time>
<p>Kind of, again, a very pleasant, nice place to kinda walk around outside.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:18:55</time>
<p>Then we got over to the museum, and the museum's not huge, but it does</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:18:58</time>
<p>a really good job of walking you through kind of this whole timeline.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:19:03</time>
<p>'Cause if you think about it, there's a lot that happened in a</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:19:05</time>
<p>relatively short amount of time.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:19:07</time>
<p>So it kinda shows, I think they even had some pictures of, like, the boy's</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:19:10</time>
<p>school, the ranch before, from before the Army came in and, and took over.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:19:14</time>
<p>Um, so they walk you through that.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:19:16</time>
<p>They show you the Secretary of War letter, kinda, you know,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:19:20</time>
<p>evicting them essentially.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:19:21</time>
<p>Um, and then it talks you through what life was like in Los Alamos.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:19:25</time>
<p>It focuses a lot on that.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:19:27</time>
<p>So there's a lot of, uh, displays talking timeline.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:19:31</time>
<p>It shows the growth of the city, how it grew, like you said, from 600 to almost</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:19:37</time>
<p>10,000 by the end of the war effort.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:19:39</time>
<p>Um, and this is all in two and a half years that- Wow</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:19:42</time>
<p>that they were there.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:19:43</time>
<p>And so it does a really good job of walking you through that whole</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:19:46</time>
<p>process, and then kinda giving you insights into Oppenheimer and Groves,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:19:50</time>
<p>and then the women that were there contributing and, and things like that.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:19:54</time>
<p>So they didn't go deep into the lives of any of these kinda</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:19:58</time>
<p>primary characters, but, uh, it, it, it was a good little museum.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:20:03</time>
<p>I was pretty impressed.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:20:03</time>
<p>And that museum is not It's not run by the national park, so you'll have</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:20:08</time>
<p>to pay separate to get in there.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:20:10</time>
<p>However, they gave it to us free because of military, so</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:20:13</time>
<p>we were able to walk around.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:20:14</time>
<p>It was built as an infirmary for the ranch school in 1918, and it later</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:20:18</time>
<p>served as a guest cottage for visitors.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:20:20</time>
<p>And like I said, it was General Leslie Groves' favorite</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:20:23</time>
<p>place to stay in Los Alamos.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:20:25</time>
<p>Uh, and the museum features, uh, exhibits on the Manhattan Project,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:20:29</time>
<p>as well as people from Los Alamos.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:20:31</time>
<p>Uh, and if you need, wanna buy your, um, souvenirs- Yeah … that's a</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:20:35</time>
<p>good place to buy them as well.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:20:36</time>
<p>So yeah, it's called the Los Alamos History Museum today,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:20:39</time>
<p>the former infirmary school.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:20:41</time>
<p>So what you can see is how they repurposed these buildings.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:20:44</time>
<p>You can see the buildings that were available there to them, and then</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:20:48</time>
<p>how they repurposed them and used them for the Manhattan Project.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:20:52</time>
<p>And like I said, Leslie Groves w- actually would stay there and</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:20:55</time>
<p>liked to stay there during, um, while he was visiting Los Alamos.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:20:59</time>
<p>But you walk around, and you go to what they call Bathtub Row, and Bathtub</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:21:03</time>
<p>Row are where these h- was homes basically on a street that had bathtubs.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:21:07</time>
<p>And they were, um, they were homes built for the ranch school, but</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:21:11</time>
<p>they adapted them for the scientists and their families, and it got</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:21:15</time>
<p>their names 'cause they're the only homes in town that had bathtubs-</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:21:19</time>
<p>Oh, interesting</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:21:20</time>
<p>for their families, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:21:21</time>
<p>Because they had children and, and so they wanted to make it seem</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:21:24</time>
<p>homey for these scientists that are coming here to kind of sit together</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:21:28</time>
<p>and, and figure out this process.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:21:30</time>
<p>So, uh, and Oppenheimer's home is at the end of Bathtub Row.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:21:34</time>
<p>And, and it's a good size little place for what you see up there, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:21:37</time>
<p>Mm-hmm.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:21:37</time>
<p>So, you know, it kind of makes sense.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:21:38</time>
<p>He was leading a lot of the effort, and so his, his house was, you know, a little</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:21:42</time>
<p>bit bigger than some of the others.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:21:43</time>
<p>It looked like they were doing a little bit of work on the front</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:21:46</time>
<p>of the house when we were there.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:21:47</time>
<p>Um, but it was interesting to me, 'cause I asked you this</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:21:50</time>
<p>before we started recording.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:21:51</time>
<p>I was like, "So two and a half years, they're doing all this stuff." I was</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:21:54</time>
<p>like, "Is the movie relatively accurate when it comes to Oppenheimer and, like,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:21:58</time>
<p>how promiscuous he, he was while he was there?" And you told me, like, yeah, you</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:22:02</time>
<p>know, he, uh, he was not faithful to his wife while he was there in Los Alamos.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:22:06</time>
<p>No, he…</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:22:07</time>
<p>I mean, uh, he was one of those ecc- ecc- eccentric scientists, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:22:12</time>
<p>And he had a strong sexual appetite, so, uh, yeah, uh, that is true.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:22:17</time>
<p>If you watch the movie, that is true.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:22:19</time>
<p>And that's one of the things they kinda In the movie and, and in real life, you know,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:22:24</time>
<p>you're always trying to see where people's weaknesses are when it comes to giving</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:22:27</time>
<p>away secrets, especially when you're dealing with such high level clearances.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:22:32</time>
<p>And if you have these different vices that they know that they can be used against</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:22:37</time>
<p>you, it was one of the things that made him very vulnerable, and that's why it</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:22:42</time>
<p>was so well-known, is because you had to, you had to poke the bear and make</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:22:47</time>
<p>sure, "Hey, is this gonna be an issue?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:22:48</time>
<p>Is this gonna be a problem?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:22:49</time>
<p>We know about this.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:22:51</time>
<p>Is this gonna be something that we have to worry about your clearance</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:22:54</time>
<p>with?" And that's why his wife knew about it and things like that.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:22:57</time>
<p>So it's very interesting, v- you know, human nature-</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:23:00</time>
<p>Yeah … and talking about this.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:23:02</time>
<p>But, um, when you go to Bath, New York and you walk and you see,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:23:07</time>
<p>uh, O- Oppenheimer's house, it's right by the Hans Bethe's house.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:23:11</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:23:11</time>
<p>Did I say that right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:23:11</time>
<p>Yep.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:23:12</time>
<p>And he's the chemist that, uh, the, the two chemists that were brought there,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:23:15</time>
<p>McMillan and, uh, physicist Hans Bethe, they both were Nobel Prize winners, and</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:23:20</time>
<p>they lived in that house at separate times, but they were brought there</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:23:24</time>
<p>for their brains and, and part of the whole, uh- Race to build the atomic</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:23:29</time>
<p>bomb, but it's right across the street, right, of the pathway to Oppenheimer's.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:23:33</time>
<p>Yeah, it, it, all these houses were pretty close.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:23:35</time>
<p>Again, it's, it's very, has that kinda camp ranch feel to it.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:23:39</time>
<p>So everything's pretty close.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:23:40</time>
<p>It's not like they're spread out and they're typical city streets.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:23:43</time>
<p>Now, it wasn't when, when we were there, because it's been built up,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:23:46</time>
<p>but back then, it really wasn't that.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:23:48</time>
<p>Yeah, the city has engulfed this.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:23:51</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:23:52</time>
<p>So when you're there, like, there's businesses right across the</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:23:54</time>
<p>street from Oppenheimer's house.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:23:56</time>
<p>Like, there's, like, a, a brewery- Yeah … right there.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:23:58</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:23:58</time>
<p>You could go have a beer, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:24:00</time>
<p>And there were some bigger clubhouses for the ranch that are no longer</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:24:05</time>
<p>there, and they have pictures of them, so you can kinda see where they</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:24:08</time>
<p>were in those business areas now.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:24:11</time>
<p>But some places have been preserved, like the theater, like</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:24:14</time>
<p>the, uh, barracks for the WACs.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:24:16</time>
<p>Those things have, have been preserved, and they could be open at different</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:24:19</time>
<p>times for you to go in and see.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:24:20</time>
<p>And I know they're trying to revamp some of that to make it visited, um,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:24:24</time>
<p>more visitor-friendly, but it was really cool, if you've, especially if</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:24:28</time>
<p>you've seen the movie, to kinda stand-</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:24:31</time>
<p>Yeah</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:24:31</time>
<p>in Oppenheimer's backyard.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:24:33</time>
<p>Yeah, I, 'cause we, I was, like, trying to look in his window, but</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:24:36</time>
<p>the, the shades were all drawn.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:24:37</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:24:37</time>
<p>But that, that was the same house, you know?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:24:39</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:24:39</time>
<p>And, uh, and if you're, again, if you're watching the video, that's</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:24:41</time>
<p>what you're seeing right now.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:24:42</time>
<p>Yeah, it was super neat.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:24:44</time>
<p>And if you knew anything, you know, there are three locations that are</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:24:47</time>
<p>really synonymous with the Manhattan Project, and one of 'em is in</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:24:53</time>
<p>Tennessee, Oak Ridge, Tennessee.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:24:54</time>
<p>So here's a, it's another, a National Park Service map.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:24:57</time>
<p>Um- Yep,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:24:58</time>
<p>future video that we're gonna try to do</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:24:59</time>
<p>… and then we just did Los Alamos, and then you got, uh, Hanford,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:25:03</time>
<p>Washington, Richland, Washington.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:25:05</time>
<p>We've made a video from there.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:25:06</time>
<p>It has not been… It, it's in the, it's in the can.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:25:09</time>
<p>Yeah, we haven't published it yet.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:25:10</time>
<p>We haven't published it yet.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:25:11</time>
<p>But these three locations is what's needed to make the atomic bomb, because</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:25:15</time>
<p>when we talk about uranium, uranium is mined, and it's very hard to find it.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:25:21</time>
<p>You get uranium-239, but that's not what's needed for the atomic bomb.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:25:26</time>
<p>You need uranium-235, and out, out of all the uranium that's mined, 230,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:25:32</time>
<p>um, 238, I'm sorry, 238 is 99% of that uranium, and only 1% will be the 235.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:25:41</time>
<p>And that's the uranium, that's the, uh, atom you need to split.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:25:46</time>
<p>And so what's so difficult about finding that uranium is they were like, "Is there</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:25:50</time>
<p>another process we can do to get the same kinda reaction?" Well, you can turn that</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:25:56</time>
<p>uranium-238, the bigger stuff you get, into plutonium, and through a nuclear</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:26:02</time>
<p>reaction, um, you can make- y- the, the more uranium you find into plutonium.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:26:09</time>
<p>And when you split that plutonium, you get almost the same kinda reaction you</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:26:14</time>
<p>get from splint- splitting uranium-235.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:26:17</time>
<p>And so when they make Little Boy, Little Boy uses that uranium.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:26:22</time>
<p>That's- That's</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:26:23</time>
<p>the… Is that the first atomic bomb?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:26:24</time>
<p>The first atomic bomb, and that is found in, uh, Oak Ridge.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:26:28</time>
<p>But when they make Fat Man, Fat Man is using plutonium, and that's</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:26:33</time>
<p>what they're getting from, uh, Richland, from Hanford, Washington.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:26:38</time>
<p>And so really, it's these three locations that come together, and in Los Alamos</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:26:45</time>
<p>is where they do all the testing, where they do all the actual putting it</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:26:50</time>
<p>together- Right … and the containment, and they do the Trinity test out there.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:26:53</time>
<p>Now, they're doing the Trinity test in July of 1945.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:26:58</time>
<p>It's successful, and they will drop the bombs in August.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:27:01</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:27:01</time>
<p>So they don't waste any time.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:27:02</time>
<p>A- a- and I didn't realize that either.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:27:04</time>
<p>I didn't realize that it was that, the timeline was that</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:27:08</time>
<p>tight from testing to usage.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:27:10</time>
<p>Yeah, I mean, again, it was a race.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:27:12</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:27:13</time>
<p>And so it was… I will say, uh, we will make it out to Oak Ridge eventually.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:27:18</time>
<p>Yep.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:27:18</time>
<p>And but being able to go to Richland and see that a- another rural location.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:27:25</time>
<p>That's where they're gonna build the first nuclear reactors because</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:27:28</time>
<p>you need these reactors to change that uranium into plutonium.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:27:32</time>
<p>And those are still out there today, and you can see all of that.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:27:36</time>
<p>And again, they're bringing in all these people, and they're</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:27:38</time>
<p>putting them in homes, and they're bringing in all these scientists.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:27:41</time>
<p>It's the same kind of feel in Los Alamos.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:27:43</time>
<p>Uh, but I will say Los Alamos, the town, is much more built up- Yeah … uh, today.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:27:48</time>
<p>But it was super neat to visit, be a part of the story, see the actual</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:27:53</time>
<p>locations, stand in Oppenheimer's backyard, and just celebrate, uh, America</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:27:59</time>
<p>and what we did during World War II and how we came together in this race</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:28:04</time>
<p>and actually beat the Germans to it.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:28:12</time>
<p>As you drive back down the winding mountain road leaving Los Alamos, looking</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:28:16</time>
<p>out across the vast New Mexico landscape, it's hard not to feel the lingering</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:28:21</time>
<p>weight of what happened on this plateau.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:28:24</time>
<p>In just over two years, a secluded ranch became the engine that</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:28:27</time>
<p>reshaped modern warfare and ushered humanity into the nuclear era.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:28:33</time>
<p>Standing outside Oppenheimer's stone cottage or looking at the security</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:28:37</time>
<p>checkpoints where ordinary families lived extraordinary and classified</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:28:41</time>
<p>lives, you realize history isn't just made on the battlefield.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:28:45</time>
<p>It's forged in hidden rooms, intense debates, and the moral</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:28:49</time>
<p>complexities of scientific discovery.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:28:54</time>
<p>Taking this detour off Route 66 was a powerful reminder of how</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:28:57</time>
<p>many world-shifting stories sit just beyond the highway markers.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:29:01</time>
<p>Next time, we point our wheels back down the Mother Road, and we continue</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:29:04</time>
<p>our trek across the American Southwest.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:29:07</time>
<p>We'll talk to you next time.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:29:09</time>
<p>Thank you.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:29:10</time>
<p>This has been a Walk With History production.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:29:13</time>
<p>Talk With History is created and hosted by me, Scott Bennie.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:29:16</time>
<p>Episode researched by Jennifer Bennie.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:29:18</time>
<p>Check out the show notes for links and references mentioned in this episode.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:29:23</time>
<p>Make sure you hit that follow button in that podcast player,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>history:</cite>
<time>00:29:25</time>
<p>and we'll talk to you next time</p>
<p></p>
<p></p>