The Hatfield-McCoy Feud | Road Trip Guide to Kentucky History - Talk With History

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:10</time>
Even the crickets here in the holler hold their breath sometimes.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:14</time>
You can feel it in the air, a tension thicker than summer humidity.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:19</time>
Hatfields and McCoys, they say, been at it since before the war, those two families.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:25</time>
My pappy used to tell stories about Devil Anse Hatfield, meanest son of

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:29</time>
a gun, this side of the Mississippi.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:31</time>
Had 13 kids, all cut from the same onery cloth.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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Over on the Kentucky side, there was Randolph McCoy, Ol Randall.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:40</time>
They used to call them.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:42</time>
Same story, a brood of boys itching for a fight.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:46</time>
It all started with the pig, some folks say.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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Stolen or not stolen, depending on who you ask.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:52</time>
But that was just the spark.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:53</time>
The real fire came later, with guns blazing across the Tug Fork,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:57</time>
men dying over land and pride.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:59</time>
My cousin Asa, poor fella, caught in the crossfire, left a hole in

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:03</time>
our family that'll never mend.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:06</time>
This here's the story of the Hatfield McCoy feud, a saga of hatred and

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:12</time>
revenge that tore these hills apart.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:15</time>
We'll meet the families, hear the gunshots echo through the hollers, and

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:18</time>
see if there's any truth to the whispers of a star crossed love affair that

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:22</time>
bloomed in the shadow of all that hate.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:25</time>
So pull up a chair by the fire, cause this ain't gonna be a pretty

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:28</time>
tale, but it's one worth hearing.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:36</time>
Welcome to Talk With History.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:39</time>
I'm your host, Scott, here with my wife and historian, Jen.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:42</time>
On this podcast, we give you insights to our history inspired world travels,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:46</time>
YouTube channel journey, and examine history through deeper conversations

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:50</time>
with the curious, the explorers, and the history lovers out there.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:54</time>
And Jen, I'm just going to jump right into it.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:55</time>
We are talking about a very popular, very famous family

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:00</time>
feud about the Hatfield McCoys.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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We're going to go right into American folklore that happens

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:02:08</time>
to be based in actual history.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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Yeah, and this was kind of a fun one because you and I

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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got some time away from the kids.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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My mom was watching the kids.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:17</time>
And so we just kind of headed due west and started driving out towards

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:21</time>
the Kentucky Virginia border area.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:23</time>
Did some other history topics we've talked about before, but we discovered

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:28</time>
we were in Hatfield McCoy country.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:02:30</time>
And it was amazing because we always wanted to do this story.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:02:34</time>
So being there, we just took full advantage of it.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:02:38</time>
And we started at the visitor center, which is basically.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:02:41</time>
the best place to go in Pikeville, Kentucky.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:45</time>
That was, it was, I'm so happy that we stopped there first

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:49</time>
because we really got the best kind of lay of the land advice that

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:53</time>
you could get, you could ask for.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:02:54</time>
And honestly, we both say it after that trip, we said the nicest people

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:03:00</time>
we have met on our history travels through America were in Kentucky.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:03:04</time>
They were amazing.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:03:05</time>
They were, they were so friendly, like, cause sometimes you feel a little

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:03:08</time>
bit like an interloper going around, especially with the camera, you're

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:03:11</time>
saying, Hey, I'm looking for this.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:03:12</time>
I'm looking for that.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:03:13</time>
Not

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:03:14</time>
No, they were so welcoming and open.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:03:17</time>
They treated us like family.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:03:19</time>
It was truly amazing.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:03:21</time>
So, I would say if you're going to do any Hatfield and McCoy travel

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:03:26</time>
exploring, start in the visitors center in Pikeville, Kentucky.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:03:29</time>
And there's a couple of reasons you want to start there.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:03:31</time>
First of all, it's a cool little town.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:03:34</time>
there.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:03:34</time>
And we're

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:03:35</time>
A lot of the history of the Hatfields and McCoys happens in Pikeville,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:03:38</time>
Kentucky, but You're going to get the best internet coverage there and we're going

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:03:44</time>
to talk about that because once you start exploring outside of Pikeville, you're

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:03:50</time>
in the hollers, you're in the back woods roads of West Virginia and Kentucky.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:03:55</time>
You're right along the border there.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:03:57</time>
And you're going to lose your internet coverage.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:03:59</time>
So if you're trying to find specific locations, you won't be able to GPS

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:04</time>
them or look them up on your Google maps or whatever you use, Apple

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:08</time>
maps, you won't be able to use it.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:10</time>
So at the visitor center, you can get a free brochure.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:16</time>
It's the Hatfields and McCoys historic feud driving tour.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:20</time>
And again,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:04:21</time>
this was in Pikeville,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:23</time>
Pikeville, Kentucky at the visitor center there.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:26</time>
And it's located at 831 Hambly Boulevard in Pikeville, Kentucky.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:32</time>
So it was a great guy there who helped us.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:36</time>
He was so, he was so open and friendly.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:40</time>
He kept telling us how Chris comes in all the time.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:43</time>
And, you know, Chris loves it here.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:45</time>
And I'm looking at him like, who, Chris, who?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:04:48</time>
who are we talking about?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:04:49</time>
I don't, I don't know.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:04:50</time>
I know many Chris's

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:51</time>
like, okay.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:52</time>
And he's talking about Chris Stapleton, who, the country music singer, who we

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:55</time>
have his record behind us in our podcast, Traveler, because we love his music.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:00</time>
We love the bluegrass.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:01</time>
We love the sound of it.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:02</time>
And I guess Chris Stapleton is from Pikeville, Kentucky.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:05:06</time>
there was a couple of other pretty well known actors and musicians,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:10</time>
is from there, Dwight Yoakam.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:05:12</time>
they call it like that was a country music highway.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:05:15</time>
through there.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:05:15</time>
But also there was an actor, most folks wouldn't quite know his name yet, but he's

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:05:20</time>
been in some really big stuff on Netflix.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:05:22</time>
He was in like at the new, um, new version of justified.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:26</time>
also in Hatfields and McCoys,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:05:28</time>
He played one of the McCoys,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:30</time>
he plays one of the

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:05:31</time>
of the Hatfields.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:05:32</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:33</time>
He plays the son.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:05:34</time>
from that

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:35</time>
He's from that area.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:37</time>
And so, yeah, you're going to get, it's close to Loretta Lynn's house too.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:41</time>
So a lot of people will go to the visitor center.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:44</time>
to get information about visiting Loretta Lynn's cabin.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:47</time>
We have a whole episode on that where you go, where you get your tickets,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:51</time>
who you talk to, if you want to visit there, a lot of people will get that

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:53</time>
information also from that visitor center.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:56</time>
So that visitor center is great for that.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:58</time>
And also if you're going to do the Hatfield to McCoy's get the driving tour,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:01</time>
you're going to want that brochure because it gives you step by step instructions.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:06</time>
After you get out of the city and you're not going to have your GPS

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:06:11</time>
And it's nice too, because you can sit there and kind

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:06:13</time>
of plan it out ahead of time.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:06:14</time>
Cause the driving tour could probably, if you do the whole thing, it'll

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:06:17</time>
probably take you all day, but you can in advance kind of pick and choose

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:06:21</time>
the spots you want to go, how much driving you actually want to do.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:06:25</time>
Plus you can actually start there in Pikeville at the, at

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:06:28</time>
the, , the city courthouse.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:06:29</time>
There's a, there's a little museum there.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:06:31</time>
That's all about the Hatfield McCoys as well as some other stuff in the area.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:35</time>
Yeah, so it's the historic courthouse where they were put on trial.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:38</time>
The second floor courtroom is now become a museum and We went over there first

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:46</time>
and we actually met an actual Hatfield

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:06:53</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:06:54</time>
So we were, I told the story to a couple of folks.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:06:57</time>
We were driving around looking for parking near the courthouse and I pull up next

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:00</time>
to a hospital and we pull up next to this hospital and we couldn't tell if it was

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:04</time>
hospital only parking or if we could park there and have security guard walks up.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:07</time>
He's an older gentleman, probably in his early 60s, and he says, Hey,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:12</time>
he'd say, Hey, can I help you guys?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:13</time>
And we said, Hey, we're looking for parking.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:14</time>
You know, we're trying to go to the courthouse.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:17</time>
And so he had kind of pointed us off in another direction, just a little,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:19</time>
you know, just a little ways away.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:21</time>
And then you saw his name tag and his name tag said, Hatfield

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:25</time>
Hatfield and so I asked him.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:27</time>
Are you a Hatfield?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:28</time>
Are you related to?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:31</time>
Devil Anse Hatfield and he said yeah, it's my great uncle and he actually owns the

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:36</time>
land where they had the feud and the Kid the boys with the border where the boys

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:42</time>
were shot where the McCoy boys were shot and we're gonna get into everything that

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:46</time>
And he even said to us too, he is like, I guess the

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:48</time>
Hatfield's won in the end.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:49</time>
And I was like, oh my gosh.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:52</time>
know.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:52</time>
We just laugh.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:53</time>
We're like, okay.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:54</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:54</time>
I mean he was, he was very kind.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:56</time>
He was very joking about it.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:57</time>
Very jovial.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:58</time>
Um, but yeah, we told him, we're like, oh my gosh, we're here to go see some of the

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:08:02</time>
sites and visit some of the locations.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:08:04</time>
He's like, and he told us that, that little bit, but

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:08:06</time>
only in Pikeville, Kentucky.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:08:08</time>
Yes.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:08:08</time>
Would you be driving around and just randomly run into one of the

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:08:12</time>
Hatfields, one of the descendants of the

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:14</time>
I know who actually lives on the

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:08:16</time>
who actually lives on the land.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:08:17</time>
So that was pretty

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:18</time>
So Let's, what we're going to do is like, let's talk about what

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:22</time>
happened, the historic, what happened.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:24</time>
And then we'll talk about what you can see where, because in the city

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:27</time>
of Pikeville, you can see a couple of things that are like the middle of

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:30</time>
the story and the end of the story.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:33</time>
And you might be confused if you don't know the story.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:36</time>
Why would I, what is this place?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:37</time>
Why?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:38</time>
I don't want to mention it right away.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:39</time>
So I'd rather mention it in order of how it happened.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:43</time>
If you're gonna drive and visit, you're not gonna, you'd be ping

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:47</time>
ponging all over the place to do that.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:49</time>
You would want to go to everywhere in Pikeville and then start to branch out.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:52</time>
So I will, let's do the whole story and then I'll tell you where you can go visit.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:56</time>
I also want to talk about, there's a lot of popularity around the Hatfields McCoys

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:00</time>
because of the miniseries that came out with, , Kevin Costner and Bill Paxton.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:07</time>
Paxton, that's

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:07</time>
I will say that miniseries is very accurate.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:11</time>
If you want to watch it we actually watched it.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:15</time>
I actually watched it while we were there again, because I hadn't seen it in

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:18</time>
Yeah, I think I watched it after the fact.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:21</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:21</time>
it's very well acted.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:23</time>
They actually filmed it on location.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:27</time>
So all of those same places, they look just like that.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:30</time>
And They're very accurate with how they tell the story and

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:35</time>
the timeline of the story.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:36</time>
They do a very good job.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:38</time>
So if you're interested in, in understanding more about the nuances

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:42</time>
of the story and how things are really interconnected and these families

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:46</time>
who just couldn't seem to get enough of each other watch that miniseries.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:49</time>
It's a three part miniseries.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:50</time>
It's act.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:51</time>
It's fantastic.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:52</time>
it's really good and that just that just goes to show how Incredible and

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:57</time>
and almost like how crazy the true life story is that they didn't have to change

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:10:01</time>
much to make it You know, it's a Hollywood

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:04</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:04</time>
It's truth is stranger than fiction.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:07</time>
And remember, this has really played into American folklore.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:11</time>
I mean, you think about Star Trek and Doc McCoy is related to the McCoys like

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:17</time>
this is supposed to be very inter grained into our American culture now, which

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:22</time>
it is this Hatfield and McCoy feud.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:25</time>
But it all goes back to really the biggest feud of America.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:35</time>
It all really starts with the Civil War.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:10:40</time>
so so talk to me a little bit about How the Hatfields and McCoys

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:10:43</time>
were involved in the Civil War?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:10:45</time>
And, and why that kind of was the genesis.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:47</time>
we're really dealing Here on the border of Kentucky and Virginia

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:54</time>
Before it becomes West Virginia because West Virginia is a product of the

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:58</time>
Civil War West Virginia is not a state before the Civil War, but because

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:03</time>
there are so many people who are anti Confederacy in Virginia, they really

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:08</time>
break away to start their own state and say, we want to be a union state.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:13</time>
We want to be part of the union.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:15</time>
We don't want to be part of this Confederacy.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:17</time>
was West Virginia that, that said that.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:19</time>
I made their own state West Virginia.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:21</time>
So here we have this border where the Hatfields are on one side,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:26</time>
the McCoy's are on the other.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:28</time>
The Hatfields are West Virginian and the McCoy's are Kentucky.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:33</time>
And.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:35</time>
They that's where you're gonna get a lot of families and brothers who are gonna

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:39</time>
fight for either side because when you think about it This is a this is where

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:44</time>
the West Virginians are gonna break away because they want pro union So you're

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:47</time>
gonna get families and brothers who are like I I side with Kentucky I side with

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:52</time>
Virginia hence, West Virginia so that That kind of is what happens here now, not

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:58</time>
with the patriarchs that when we really talk about the Hatfields and McCoys,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:00</time>
there's two head men of these families.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:03</time>
You're going to get William Anderson Hatfield, devil anse on the Hatfield side.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:08</time>
And then you're going to get Randall, old Randall McCoy on the McCoy side.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:13</time>
They both fight for the Confederacy.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:15</time>
They both fight together for the Confederacy.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:18</time>
And in the mini series, that's, that is Kevin Costner and Bill

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:21</time>
Yes.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:21</time>
They both feel like it's their duty.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:25</time>
McCoy really feels like it's his duty.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:27</time>
He wants to stay.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:29</time>
Hatfield, the devil anse, starts to see the Confederacy losing and

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:34</time>
feels like it's a losing fight and he doesn't want to die for a lost cause.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:38</time>
So he, he basically leaves early and goes back to his land.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:43</time>
probably leaves like, like a year or two before the end of the

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:46</time>
Before the end of the war and goes back to his land and then

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:48</time>
he's able to start his business up and really get more solid business

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:54</time>
They do like log logging and a lot of land

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:56</time>
Yes, before McCoy can even get back home.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:59</time>
And that's, that's Bill

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:00</time>
That's Bill Paxton.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:01</time>
And so you see McCoy kind of resentful of that fact.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:04</time>
Cause doesn't he get captured?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:06</time>
He does get captured at one point.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:08</time>
And so he has to survive

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:10</time>
like, he's a prisoner of

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:11</time>
prisoner of war, which if you know anything about civil war, prisoners

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:14</time>
of war, both sides were horrible.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:16</time>
You can't even say the South was worse than the North.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:19</time>
They both treated their prisoners Terrible.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:24</time>
But that's not really where the feud starts.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:26</time>
Their friends, they're kind of, McCoy kind of pissed at Hadfield because he

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:30</time>
Left

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:30</time>
left early mad at him.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:32</time>
But that's not the feud.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:38</time>
What starts this whole feud and it, People like to say it was the Pig Trial.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:42</time>
The Pig Trial is really where it kind of gets really dug in, but the feud really

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:47</time>
starts with a brother of McCoy, Asa Harmon McCoy, who served in the Union.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:57</time>
So here you got brothers who are serving for two separate

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:02</time>
sides and Asa comes back home.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:07</time>
He's been captured.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:09</time>
He served time in a confederate prisoner of war camp.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:11</time>
He comes back home.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:12</time>
He's not even home for 13 days before he is killed and he's killed.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:18</time>
January 7th, 1865.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:21</time>
So, this is really before the end of the war.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:24</time>
He serves time, and he gets out early, and he comes back, and

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:28</time>
it's Jim Vance, Vance is the uncle of Old Anse, so he's a Hatfield,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:35</time>
Tom Berringer in the miniseries.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:37</time>
it so

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:37</time>
He's phenomenal.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:38</time>
So Tom Berringer plays, um, Kevin Costner's uncle.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:43</time>
Right.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:44</time>
Crazy.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:44</time>
Yeah, the crazy, this is like, you think about the crazy uncle?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:49</time>
This is back then, like, you know, West Virginia.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:51</time>
Crazy, crazy

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:53</time>
Crazy uncle.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:53</time>
Who's a rebel, right?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:54</time>
He believes in the rebel cause.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:56</time>
So here comes a McCoy, home that fought for the Union, and he's mad.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:00</time>
Not, not only did he like, get captured as a prisoner of war, and

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:04</time>
he, gets out and now he's back home.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:07</time>
This is before the end of the war.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:08</time>
He's mad.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:09</time>
So 13 days later, he's killed.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:11</time>
And so this is what starts the feud.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:13</time>
A McCoy is killed by the Hatfields.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:15:17</time>
And that's kind of what I was referring to as like, I'll

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:15:20</time>
call it time traveling Scotty that did the intro there, right?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:15:23</time>
When you say like my cousin Asa, you know, because I had, there were so many brothers

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:15:26</time>
and sisters, there's so much family on each side that really was the first

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:15:31</time>
event that really kicked off this feud.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:34</time>
And when you think about it, there's these huge families, these

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:38</time>
huge networks of families, right?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:40</time>
And that's who does all your farming.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:42</time>
That's who you, that's who does all your business with.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:45</time>
It's like you have six or seven brothers and sisters, and then

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:49</time>
they have six or seven brothers and sisters and they have, so you have

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:52</time>
these huge families on either side.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:54</time>
It doesn't mean they didn't intermarry.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:56</time>
Hatfield's McCoy is certainly intermarried, but they had these strong

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:01</time>
family ties through the patriarch line.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:04</time>
And it's the McCoy brother who's killed by the Hatfield uncle

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:08</time>
that starts this whole thing.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:09</time>
And we go to that location that is outside of the city.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:14</time>
It's by this little school.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:16</time>
I think it's called Blackberry.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:17</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:18</time>
Then there's a marker

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:19</time>
There's a marker there.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:19</time>
That's a great place to be like, this is where it all started.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:23</time>
And.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:24</time>
You're going to get like this feud is going to last a while because

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:28</time>
his widow starts to kind of, she starts to needle her way into

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:34</time>
with lawyers and things like that.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:36</time>
So this is going to start the whole feud.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:39</time>
feud kind of goes on for a few decades.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:40</time>
yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:41</time>
Oh yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:41</time>
So I mean, it's going to be 13 years later when this hog trial happens.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:45</time>
So that's the first thing that happens.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:48</time>
It's not publicized that it was Jim Vance that did it.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:52</time>
Family tradition points to him.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:54</time>
He's part of that West Virginia militia group that is the rebels that did that.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:00</time>
application for his wife's pension from the union said he was killed by rebels.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:06</time>
So that's kind of like how people have pieced that together.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:08</time>
There's no existing records pertaining to his death.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:10</time>
There's no death record.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:12</time>
But when she goes for the pension, killed by rebels is what it says.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:16</time>
And

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:17</time>
And I think even some of the markers don't specifically

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:19</time>
call out the Hatfield, but they, they call out the group, but it's,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:24</time>
it's, it's, It's it's implied

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:27</time>
a member was a leader of the group.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:29</time>
So, so, McCoy comes back from the end of the war.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:33</time>
So this happens in January 1865.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:35</time>
McCoy comes back at the end of the war and he starts to hear rumblings

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:39</time>
and he's not, not only is he mad that Hadfield old Anse has left early

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:44</time>
and been able to kind of keep his family going where McCoy's family has

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:49</time>
basically just really barely gotten by.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:53</time>
Now he's here rumblings that his brother was killed by Hatfield.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:56</time>
So he just kind of, is upset about

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:00</time>
Yeah bitter about

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:01</time>
bitter about it, but it goes about his business and

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:04</time>
starts to build their life back.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:07</time>
So if you go to the McCoy well, which is again on the outskirts of Pikeville,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:14</time>
but it's a great place to visit.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:15</time>
They have a a guy who lives there who loves giving tours,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:21</time>
Yeah, you if you drive up and if the guys you know, there's a

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:25</time>
gentleman that lives right near the well Which is where their old home was

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:30</time>
but if his garage is open, he's out.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:32</time>
He'll come right up to you I'm talking to you.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:34</time>
He came and she said hey come look at this stuff.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:36</time>
I have my garage and we were like, um You Excuse me.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:39</time>
And

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:40</time>
Kevin Costner went and visited there and

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:42</time>
he said he used to like give tours and stuff.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:44</time>
So it's random McCoy's.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:45</time>
Well, it's in Hardy, Kentucky.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:46</time>
So this is where McCoy's home was, and this is where the pig was.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:52</time>
And so the pig gets marked with the McCoy mark, which is basically two notches out

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:57</time>
of its ear, wanders away onto the hill.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:00</time>
So if you stand on, at the McCoy well, which was behind their

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:04</time>
house where they got their water.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:06</time>
Now they make alcohol from there.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:07</time>
You can buy the McCoy well, alcohol, moonshine or whatever.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:11</time>
Um, if you look up, you can see like a hill.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:14</time>
That's where the pig wandered onto the hill.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:17</time>
And that was Hatfield land, not old aunt's Hatfield land,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:20</time>
but one of his cousins land.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:22</time>
And so what happens is that that pig has gotten over there and the cousin

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:29</time>
Floyd Hatfield, claimed it was his hog and he's taking it to slaughter,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:34</time>
walks by Randall McCoy and McCoy looks at his ears and says, those

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:39</time>
are McCoy marks, not Hatfield marks.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:41</time>
And Floyd says, that pig has been on my land for a couple

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:45</time>
of years now and it's mine.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:47</time>
And McCoy's like, that pig wandered away from my house

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:51</time>
like three or four years ago.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:52</time>
We just thought, we just thought something happened to it.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:56</time>
Like, but you kept it.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:57</time>
That's my pig.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:19:58</time>
So they start arguing over who owns this

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:00</time>
They start arguing on who owns this pig.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:02</time>
and you, you drove home too.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:03</time>
And I think you made it into the video about how valuable those hogs were.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:08</time>
And especially at that

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:09</time>
at that time.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:09</time>
It's your livelihood.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:10</time>
It's feeding your family.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:13</time>
Basically, you could see it as Randall McCoy felt the Hatfields was stealing

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:17</time>
food from his family's mouths.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:19</time>
It was that bad.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:20</time>
You're stealing another

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:21</time>
And that, and that's why things started to get so

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:23</time>
Yes, this happens in 1878.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:26</time>
So this is 13 years after Asa is killed.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:30</time>
So McCoy has let this fester for 13 years, right?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:34</time>
He hasn't brought anything up.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:36</time>
I don't think he's been perfect, particularly friendly to the Hatfields,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:40</time>
but I mean, they're still neighbors.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:42</time>
And, but he now he's mad.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:45</time>
He takes it to the justice of the peace.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:47</time>
And he wants He wants justice and the justice of the piece is Anderson Hatfield.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:55</time>
So it's, it's old and Hatfield's cousin

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:59</time>
. Scott: Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:00</time>
It's another one of his cousins

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:01</time>
Yes.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:02</time>
And so, and he's a well educated man, knows the law, but he's also from

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:07</time>
Kentucky and he or in West Virginia, he's also Hatfield and he understands

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:13</time>
family almost matters more than the law.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:16</time>
And so.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:18</time>
You can go to the cabin where this trial takes place and I would recommend

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:23</time>
that is a that is a place you want to

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:25</time>
Yeah, that was really cool because you're driving through,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:29</time>
you know, just to kind of step back and set the scene of where we are.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:32</time>
Like one of the things that I kind of wondered before we got out

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:35</time>
there is like, what's a hauler?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:36</time>
Well, it's a bunch of little mini valleys, right?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:38</time>
You're driving through and it is beautiful land out there.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:42</time>
It's absolutely gorgeous driving through these haulers.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:44</time>
Like when we went up to Butcher Hauler to Loretta Lynn and driving

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:47</time>
through these haulers was really cool.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:49</time>
So you really.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:50</time>
feel like you're there.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:51</time>
And then you come down and I think it's near like a post office.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:54</time>
Um,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:55</time>
it McCarr, Kentucky.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:56</time>
yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:56</time>
And so you drive up and they had recreated the, the cabin there.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:00</time>
And so I think they call it the pig trial, hog trial cabin.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:04</time>
Um, and you know, it's, it's in good shape.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:07</time>
You know, I, I'm sure it's certain times of the year you

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:09</time>
might be able to go inside.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:10</time>
We weren't able to,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:11</time>
, Jenn: look in the windows and it's

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:12</time>
and there's other things that.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:13</time>
Aren't actually too far from that, from that cabin, some other markers that we'll

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:17</time>
talk about a little bit, but it was just, it was beautiful time of year we were

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:20</time>
there in October and it was so neat to do.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:24</time>
And if you're thinking about considering about going on these driving tour, I

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:27</time>
highly recommend this as one of your

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:29</time>
Yeah, it's in It's called the Preacher Anse Hatfield Hog Trial Cabin

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:35</time>
and its location, it just gives you like a county road, 319 McCarr, Kentucky.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:41</time>
And that's kind of how you're going to have to get around there.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:43</time>
It really is like these old country roads.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:51</time>
So this is what the trial is going to take place.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:53</time>
Now.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:54</time>
I will say the uncle Anderson, Preacher Anderson, tried to

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:58</time>
make it, tried to make it just.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:02</time>
He tried to put half of the Hatfields on the jury and half

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:05</time>
of the McCoys on the jury.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:07</time>
The problem was that one of the McCoys was married to a Hatfield.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:13</time>
And like I said, these, they're intermarried.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:15</time>
And so, he was kind of a relative of both families and he.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:20</time>
said that he didn't, he didn't think that that mark was a McCoy mark.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:24</time>
And so that kind of pushed it.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:25</time>
And so Anderson Hatfield ruled in favor of the Hatfields.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:23:28</time>
So he sided with his wife's side, which was the Hatfield side.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:33</time>
so that, that makes McCoy even more mad.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:38</time>
Like finally, he's like, I didn't get justice for my brother.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:41</time>
Nobody cares.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:43</time>
I didn't get justice for my pig.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:45</time>
Nobody cares.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:46</time>
And so this is when the sons, the McCoy sons.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:23:51</time>
Start getting involved.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:52</time>
getting involved.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:52</time>
They really start to get upset.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:54</time>
So Hatfield has a couple of sons.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:55</time>
McCoy has a couple of sons.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:56</time>
Everyone's half is like 10

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:23:58</time>
And daughters, right?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:23:59</time>
So Randall McCoy, right?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:01</time>
Who's the patriarch of the McCoy side.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:03</time>
His sons start getting involved and things start getting rowdy.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:07</time>
So it's in, it's two years later in June of 1880 that the, the

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:12</time>
testimony of the relative of the McCoy's who was married to the Hatfield

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:16</time>
is killed by two of the McCoy sons

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:19</time>
like, hey, you betrayed.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:21</time>
They kind of in, in the miniseries, they kind of say, hey, you

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:24</time>
betrayed our side of the family.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:26</time>
And they kill them.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:27</time>
and they kill him.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:28</time>
Now they are immediately arrested.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:31</time>
But the Hatfields catch him, they see them, him do that, and they take him

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:35</time>
into trial, but they claim self defense.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:37</time>
And because nobody saw it, they say he came after us with a knife, which he

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:40</time>
probably did because they threatened him that they were going to kill him.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:44</time>
So he pulls a knife and says, I'm going to defend myself.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:46</time>
And then they just kill him.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:47</time>
And so they claim self defense.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:48</time>
And you see in the, in the, in the mini series that Anderson Hatfield, the justice

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:54</time>
of the piece is getting very mad now at this, at this point, because they're

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:59</time>
using the law Which is true, but he can't.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:04</time>
He kind of bent the law in the first place for his cousin to win the hog trial.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:09</time>
Now the McCoys have bent the law in their favor to win the self defense trial.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:13</time>
And he just sees this escalating, right?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:15</time>
Now we've killed, a person was killed, Asa has been killed, a hog has been taken.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:20</time>
Now someone else has been killed.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:22</time>
So we kind of have a person on the McCoy side has been killed and a person

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:26</time>
on the Hatfield side has been killed.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:28</time>
So that's where we're at right now.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:30</time>
This is 1880.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:31</time>
So it's kind of right now, an eye for an eye, but it's just going

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:35</time>
to escalate now with a daughter.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:25:44</time>
Of course things start getting complicated when the,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:25:47</time>
when the girls start coming in.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:49</time>
So, Randall McCoy has a beautiful daughter named Rosanna and she enters

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:53</time>
into a relationship with Devil Ann's son Johnson, they call him , Jonesy.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:58</time>
And she leaves her family to live with them because McCoy basically, Randall

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:04</time>
McCoy basically disowns her when he finds out that she likes him, right?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:09</time>
He's so mad still.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:11</time>
This has festered for so long.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:12</time>
How could my daughter?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:13</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:13</time>
In, in the mini series, like Jonesy's, like, like the handsome Hatfield, he's

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:18</time>
kind of a little bit of a playboy, right?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:21</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:21</time>
And they start this fling and they, you know, quote unquote fall in love.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:24</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:24</time>
You know?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:25</time>
And you have to think about it too, I, they, they don't get into

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:29</time>
a bunch of this in the miniseries.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:30</time>
Jonesy already has a kid by another woman, there's not a lot

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:33</time>
of people around at this time.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:35</time>
The people, you know, are your neighbors, because it's not

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:38</time>
like you're going into the city.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:39</time>
It's not like you're meeting a bunch of people, right?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:41</time>
The hog trial was probably the event of the, of the year.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:45</time>
Well, and it's hard to travel around those hollers out there.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:47</time>
I mean, it's, travel is

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:49</time>
It's slow.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:49</time>
You walk or you ride your horse.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:51</time>
So who else you going to see beside your neighbor?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:55</time>
And so there's very much like a Romeo and Juliet kind of situation,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:58</time>
because my enemy is the only person who has a son who's My age, you know,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:05</time>
so that's kind of what happens here.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:06</time>
When she tells Randall McCoy that she likes,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:09</time>
father.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:09</time>
yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:10</time>
Then she tells Fann McCoy

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:11</time>
she tells her

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:12</time>
that she likes the Hatfield son.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:13</time>
He kicks her out.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:14</time>
So she goes over to them.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:15</time>
They take her in as good people.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:17</time>
They, But then she ends up getting pregnant and so then they kick her out

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:22</time>
because it's starting a problem that they're not married and and so then the

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:29</time>
McCoy's don't want her coming back with a basically a Bastard child so she's

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:33</time>
kind of sent to live with an aunt on the outskirts of this whole area and

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:42</time>
What's very weird is that The brothers, then, again, the McCoy brothers, try to

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:49</time>
honor their sister and kidnap Johnsy.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:54</time>
And

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:55</time>
and they, they were gonna kill

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:56</time>
they were going to kill him.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:57</time>
And so she finds out about this and goes and tells the Hatfields.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:01</time>
The only people that she knows that can save him would be his own people,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:04</time>
even though she's kind of like

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:28:07</time>
betraying her own

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:07</time>
betraying her own brothers.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:08</time>
So she goes and tells the Hatfields.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:10</time>
The Hatfields go stop the killing.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:12</time>
And And they don't, they don't hurt the McCoy boys, but they, they

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:18</time>
basically give a good, like this is your last chance kind of thing.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:23</time>
Like no one was hit, killed here, but this we're, we're escalating this.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:28</time>
This is getting really big and we need to stop.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:31</time>
And so John Z basically abandons her pregnant because

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:36</time>
it is getting kind of big.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:28:38</time>
when neither side wants, it's either supports or condones

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:28:42</time>
this relationship and they're ostracizing each of them.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:28:44</time>
So, it's kind of, it's not even a lesser of any evil.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:28:48</time>
Jonesy just kind of sides with his family and he leaves Roseanne and leaves her to

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:28:55</time>
kind of fend for herself with her aunt.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:56</time>
Yeah, with her aunt.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:57</time>
And then he, typical guy who's just running around, marries Nancy McCoy.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:03</time>
So he does marry a McCoy.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:04</time>
It's a cousin of Rosanna, who happens to be the daughter of Asa McCoy,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:29:09</time>
From the very beginning.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:29:10</time>
Yeah, crazy.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:11</time>
right?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:12</time>
So it's like, like, so when you start to find these locations,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:15</time>
they are very close together.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:17</time>
And you're like, Okay, I can see how this is getting complicated.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:21</time>
Now, we're still at one death for one death, but we're starting

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:25</time>
to get more complicated now.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:26</time>
A baby's brought into the picture.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:27</time>
Um, John Z did marry a McCoy, right?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:31</time>
So,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:29:31</time>
what's the next thing that kind of takes it to the next level?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:34</time>
so we're back at the cabin, the hog trial cabin, . It's

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:46</time>
election day in Kentucky.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:47</time>
Everyone's coming out 1882.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:29:51</time>
This is almost almost 20 years after the end of the Civil

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:53</time>
Yep, yeah, 20 years after the Civil War.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:56</time>
Again a gathering everyone comes back to the hog trial cabin because

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:01</time>
it's the justice of the peace

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:30:02</time>
and it's kind of in that area.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:30:03</time>
It's it's Central ish.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:06</time>
ish and it's where the elections being held where the boxes, right?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:09</time>
You write on your ballot and you put in the box only men can vote.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:12</time>
This is still only the men, right?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:14</time>
so the women are there like yeah, I'll make a pie and My man will vote, you know

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:30:19</time>
it's a big event.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:20</time>
It's a bigger bet so Jonesy has a, has a still,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:25</time>
which a lot of the people did.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:27</time>
This is Kentucky.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:28</time>
This is 1880 until a moonshine and start get start drinking.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:33</time>
And the younger brothers of Rosanna are still pissed about everything that

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:39</time>
happened with Johnsy and their sister.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:41</time>
She's since had the baby and they start messing around and pushing around.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:49</time>
Aunt's brother, his big brother, or actually no, his little brother, but a

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:54</time>
brother who he really loved, Ellison.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:57</time>
Ellison Hatfield has a son named Cotton.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:00</time>
Ellison is a good guy.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:01</time>
He's trying to stop the escalation of these brothers.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:07</time>
They're getting mad at John Z.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:09</time>
Ellison's kind of like, leave him alone.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:11</time>
comes in to basically break up the

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:13</time>
Break up the fight and Tolbert Farmer and bud the three

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:18</time>
younger brothers of Rosanna the McCoys kill Ellison Not right away.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:23</time>
They stab him 26 times and shoot him.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:26</time>
I mean they they he doesn't die right away And cuz so initially

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:32</time>
Anse Hatfield arrest them.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:35</time>
And he says, if my brother dies, I'm going to kill you

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:39</time>
And so he so he actually has them and he arrests him like it's not

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:43</time>
like he doesn't take him to the county jail Like he's holding them on his land.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:46</time>
his land.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:47</time>
He basically is like a group of vigilantes and he, he won't

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:52</time>
let them be taken to Pikeville.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:54</time>
And the McCoy family tries, Randall McCoy tries to get them

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:59</time>
taken to Pikeville to stand trial.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:01</time>
He's trying to get them.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:03</time>
legally to Pikeville, which as you see is probably about 20 minutes away.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:32:08</time>
for us

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:09</time>
Yes, but imagine in a wagon or something.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:12</time>
But, um, the brothers are taken by force by anse and they're held up.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:18</time>
And then when Ellison dies, all three of the brothers are killed by the Hatfields.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:23</time>
They're tied to these pawpaw trees and shot numerous times.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:27</time>
A total of 50 shots were and their bodies were burned.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:30</time>
bullet riddled.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:31</time>
And soon, um, you can go to those pawpaw trees.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:34</time>
They are close.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:35</time>
We didn't go there.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:35</time>
It's one place we didn't go.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:36</time>
You can walk over to them.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:37</time>
That's where that Hadfield guy was saying he owns the land.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:40</time>
He owns that land, which, but you can go visit there if you want to.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:43</time>
It's pretty close to the , hog trial cabin.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:46</time>
And you can just basically walk out into the clearing and you can see where

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:50</time>
they were tied to the trees and shot.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:32:52</time>
Yeah, so now Now things are, are just kind of out of control.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:32:57</time>
Now things are out of control because these three, they killed Ellison.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:33:01</time>
Then the Hatfields come back, take these three.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:33:04</time>
They, they kill these three.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:33:05</time>
I mean, just line them up and shoot them.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:33:09</time>
And now things, now things are out of control.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:11</time>
This is when Randall McCoy, I mean, of course, he's going to be so upset.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:15</time>
His sons were killed.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:16</time>
Three of his sons, like the oldest are all killed.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:20</time>
So he tries to get a lawyer, Perry Klein.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:24</time>
So you're going to hear Perry Klein's name a couple of times as well to arrest

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:29</time>
the Hatfields for basically , acting as vigilantes and killing his sons.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:35</time>
And even though people.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:38</time>
in the area believe this revenge is warranted, right?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:41</time>
There's about 20 people who are indicted, including anse on this,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:45</time>
but, um, all of the Hatfields elude arrest that also angers McCoy

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:50</time>
because no one can prove anything.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:53</time>
No one's going to testify against each other.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:55</time>
Right.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:56</time>
And so McCoy gets even more upset about all of

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:33:58</time>
So is this when he calls in, the gun for hire?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:03</time>
And so also talk a little bit about the graves of those three

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:07</time>
sons before we get any further.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:10</time>
Across from the well of the Hatfield house, across from the

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:13</time>
well from the McCoy house, the three Hatfield boys were buried.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:18</time>
And there's a marker when you park into the parking lot to walk over to the McCoy

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:23</time>
well where the cabin was, it'll say McCoy.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:27</time>
Cemetery.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:30</time>
It's not in the right location cause you can't go visit the

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:34:32</time>
It's not

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:33</time>
It's not public.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:34</time>
Why?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:35</time>
Because a Hatfield owns the land now where the McCoy boys are buried.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:40</time>
And because a Hatfield owns the land, they don't want people to go and visit it.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:44</time>
I mean, we laugh that the feud today is no longer going on, but in some regard it is.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:34:50</time>
Now, is that the one that a judge ruled that at least once a year

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:54</time>
Family can

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:34:55</time>
family can go and visit the

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:57</time>
yes.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:57</time>
So when you talk to the well.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:01</time>
Yes, the McCoy family, once a year, is allowed to go onto the land and

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:06</time>
visit the graves of the three boys.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:08</time>
But the public, you and I, couldn't go there and visit their graves.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:13</time>
So that's one place you can't

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:35:15</time>
Yeah, it's private land.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:16</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:16</time>
And again, that is a big part of the story.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:20</time>
So but you can't go there.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:27</time>
McCoy feels like he can't get justice, and Perry Kline, the lawyer, who at

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:35</time>
some point tried to sue Hatfield for his land, but was caught in some kind of

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:35:42</time>
Doing it sketchy or

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:43</time>
Yeah, it wasn't right.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:44</time>
He was, he was doing something that wasn't, it was definitely

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:47</time>
fraud and Hatfield caught him.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:49</time>
So Perry Kline was kind of upset that he was caught in his wrongdoings.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:55</time>
They, they hire a man to come in and basically catch Hatfield

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:36:01</time>
Yeah, isn't this

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:36:02</time>
Bad Frank Phillips.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:36:03</time>
Frank Phillips is brought in.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:36:05</time>
You're going to get McCoys and Hatfields who are basically trying

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:36:09</time>
to tie up loose ends and cover their stories and cover their tracks.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:36:13</time>
Hatfields kind of goes into hiding on his land, won't let anybody on his land

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:36:18</time>
that he doesn't know, very afraid of what repercussions could happen to him.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:36:23</time>
Well, and part of it, if I remember from the miniseries, and you

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:36:27</time>
were saying that it was pretty accurate, but Bad Frank Phillips is hired by

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:36:30</time>
the McCoys to kind of go in there.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:36:33</time>
I think in the miniseries, they say, Hey, go and arrest them and bring them over

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:36:36</time>
to this side so they can stand trial.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:36:38</time>
But they've, Hatfields have it so locked up on their property

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:36:42</time>
that they can't go over.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:36:43</time>
And bad Frank Phillips, again in the miniseries, had this reputation of

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:36:48</time>
being a little bit of a, of a wild, you know, wild kind of gun for hire.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:36:53</time>
And rather than trying to arrest, he just, you know, ended up starting

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:36:57</time>
to, you know, Kill some people.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:37:00</time>
he, he started to kill cousins of the Hatfields that

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:37:05</time>
made Anne's Hatfield more mad.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:37:09</time>
I would say Anderson Hatfield, old Anne's Hatfield, understood the predicament

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:37:15</time>
he was in and maybe didn't agree that what he was doing was orthodox, but

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:37:20</time>
once his family members start to get killed, he feels like he has to be

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:37:24</time>
the one to rectify the situation.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:37:27</time>
And it deserves his, it deserves someone else to be killed for a family member

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:37:33</time>
has been killed, even if he wasn't in the

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:37:34</time>
Yeah, you could tell that Kevin Costner's character,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:37:37</time>
who's Devil Anse right?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:37:38</time>
Devil Anse Hatfield Was was torn.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:37:42</time>
He did a good job of portraying the hey, this needs to de escalate But ultimately

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:37:48</time>
is just pushed across the line to defend his family rather than take the high road,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:37:54</time>
be able to take the high road and bring things, you know, back down to normalcy.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:37:59</time>
And so they really play that up.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:38:01</time>
And eventually even him, Devil Anse Hatfield, you know, Kevin Costner's

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:38:05</time>
character is just like, okay, that's it.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:38:08</time>
We're done.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:38:09</time>
Like this is, this is us versus you.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:38:11</time>
And I am on the Hatfield side.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:38:14</time>
Kind of no matter

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:38:15</time>
Yes.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:38:16</time>
So it's at this point that the, that the Hatfields.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:38:21</time>
Are so sick and tired of being afraid that they fight back and It reaches the I

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:38:27</time>
would say the feud reaches its peak here.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:38:29</time>
And this is why the McCoy cabin no longer exists This is 1888.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:38:33</time>
It's New Year's Eve and Vance and crazy uncle with cotton who's Ellison's son

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:38:43</time>
and he in the show.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:38:44</time>
He has the name cotton because he's most likely

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:38:48</time>
He's simple

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:38:49</time>
Yeah, simple minded right and so and I think that's even true true to

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:38:53</time>
yeah, they treat him like cotton.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:38:55</time>
but but again loved within within the Hatfield

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:38:58</time>
and they, slow, his mental capacity is, is diminished, and so they, The

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:39:07</time>
Hatfields surround the McCoy cabin.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:39:09</time>
So it's Sarah and Randall with all their children so boys and girls and cotton gum.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:39:16</time>
Earnest Socializing.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:39:16</time>
is told to go around back.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:39:18</time>
And if anyone tries to leave from the back, shoot them.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:39:20</time>
Right, so they're coming for him and his wife.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:39:25</time>
You know, and they're standing outside the cabin yelling for him to come

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:39:28</time>
out and she says don't she sends him out the back and he escapes before

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:39:32</time>
cotton gets there and he had run off and then she starts sending the the

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:39:36</time>
daughters that the girls out and that's when cotton kind of shoots one of the

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:39:40</time>
So her idea is if they don't think you're home,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:39:42</time>
they'll leave us alone, right?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:39:44</time>
So if you run, cause if you go out there, they're just going to kill you.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:39:47</time>
So if you run and pretend like you're not here, they'll leave us alone.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:39:50</time>
Well, they don't leave them alone.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:39:51</time>
They end up killing two of the boys and they beat Sarah, almost killing her.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:39:56</time>
by Vance and Johnsy.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:39:58</time>
and then they burn the cabin

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:39:59</time>
Then they burn the cabin down.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:40:01</time>
And like I said, one of the daughters is killed.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:40:03</time>
So the remaining McCoys will move to Pikeville

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:40:07</time>
like in the city.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:40:08</time>
the city.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:40:08</time>
And that McCoy house is there.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:40:11</time>
Yeah, it's like a restaurant

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:40:12</time>
a restaurant now.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:40:13</time>
So we visit there.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:40:14</time>
So like I said, there are things you're going to want to see in

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:40:16</time>
Pikeville, that McCoy house.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:40:18</time>
This is after the fire of 1888 is where they move and live.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:40:22</time>
They spend the rest of their lives there in Pikeville.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:40:25</time>
That's the thing you're going to want to see in the city.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:40:28</time>
So after that, Cotton is going to be arrested and stand trial for the murder.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:40:35</time>
And he's found guilty and he's hanged in the square of Pikeville.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:40:42</time>
So that's another place you can visit in the city of Pikeville.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:40:46</time>
not like he was taken at night and, and hanged.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:40:48</time>
He was like, this was a public execution.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:40:50</time>
public execution, Ellison Cotton Topmounce was executed by hanging

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:40:54</time>
and buried in an unmarked grave.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:40:56</time>
And if I remember correctly, this is kind of the thing that finally.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:40:59</time>
it, you know, at least as far as the events go, is everybody's out

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:41:04</time>
there from both sides of the family, as well as the rest of the public.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:41:08</time>
And he's hanged.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:41:09</time>
And then that, that kind of takes the wind out of the sails of both

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:41:13</time>
sides, because everybody, at least again, in the miniseries, kind of sees

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:41:18</time>
like, okay, This can't continue on.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:41:20</time>
The two McCoy's that are killed are a son and the daughter.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:41:24</time>
And so it's on August 24th, 1888, that eight of the Hatfields

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:41:28</time>
and their friends are indicted for the murder of the daughter.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:41:31</time>
Attafair, she was killed during the massacre and those included

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:41:35</time>
Cap, John Z, Robert, and Elliot Hatfield, Ellison Mounts, Frank Ellis,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:41:40</time>
Charles Gipsy, and Thomas Chambers.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:41:43</time>
But only cotton.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:41:45</time>
is executed.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:41:46</time>
The rest of them will spend life in prison.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:41:49</time>
Um, those sent to prison, Valentine Hatfield, elder brother of Anne's Doc

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:41:55</time>
Madden, son in law of the Hatfield and another son in law, 14 years in prison.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:42:08</time>
So this is basically the end.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:42:10</time>
This is where, again, after Cotton is hanged, the feud dies out.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:42:15</time>
Also, they believe because the McCoys moved to Pikeville, and

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:42:18</time>
they're far enough away from the Hatfields, that this feud dies out.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:42:22</time>
There's, after this, there's no real Back and forth the fighting between the family

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:42:27</time>
ceased after the hanging but the trials continue until 1901, trial of John Z,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:42:32</time>
sentenced to life imprisonment for his involvement in the New Year massacre.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:42:36</time>
So John Z will have life in prison.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:42:38</time>
And so then you get like, The modern era in 1979, family feud had the Hatfields

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:42:46</time>
and the McCoys on the family feud.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:42:48</time>
Yeah, they did like it was a cash prize and a pig kept on

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:42:52</time>
stage during the game, right?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:42:54</time>
And the Hatfield family won more money than the McCoys.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:42:57</time>
Now, I think you said it in the video, it was the early 2000s,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:43:01</time>
eventually both families kind of came together and signed something that

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:43:05</time>
said, Hey, this, this feud is done.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:43:07</time>
Yeah, so they did a joint family reunion in 2000.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:43:11</time>
It garnered national attention, 5, 000 people attended, and that's

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:43:16</time>
when They basically signed a truce.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:43:18</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:43:19</time>
I mean, kind of, it was ceremonial, but it actually, it, it meant something.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:43:23</time>
meant something.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:43:23</time>
I mean, we still have the issue with the graveyard, right?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:43:27</time>
That happened in 2002, a lawsuit about that graveyard, um, which is when

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:43:32</time>
just they can be visited once a year.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:43:35</time>
Um, but there is basically, pretty much a truce between the families now.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:43:39</time>
And now they do like a big Hatfield McCoy festival.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:43:42</time>
It's a three day weekend in June, people come and visit.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:43:45</time>
Other things you can go and see that we went and see is you

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:43:49</time>
definitely want to see the graves.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:43:51</time>
So in the city of Pikeville, you want to go see the McCoy graves.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:43:56</time>
You can see Randall, Sarah and Rosanna.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:44:00</time>
that was near like a fire station,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:44:02</time>
Yes, you have to park across the street, cross the street, and it's a

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:44:06</time>
walk, so it's definitely not somebody who is in a wheelchair or can't do stairs.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:44:11</time>
not accessible.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:44:12</time>
It's not handicapped

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:44:13</time>
It's basically straight up with a bunch of stairs and, but it's neat to see.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:44:18</time>
They're graves there.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:44:19</time>
You can also visit the Hatfield graveyard.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:44:21</time>
That's farther out.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:44:23</time>
Old roads.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:44:24</time>
We didn't go all the way out to that.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:44:26</time>
We went to a park that kind of told the stories of the Hatfields McCoys.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:44:32</time>
was, it was very neat.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:44:32</time>
And I encourage folks listening to this.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:44:34</time>
If you, if you like this story, , the video actually did pretty well for us.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:44:37</time>
It's a good video.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:44:38</time>
We took some time to make it and we show all these locations.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:44:41</time>
We show some maps so you get a feel for where in Virginia and West

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:44:45</time>
Virginia, Kentucky area that, that we're at, as well as this kind of

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:44:48</time>
memorial, , to both sides of the family.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:44:51</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:44:51</time>
And in case you were wondering Rosanna's baby.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:44:54</time>
doesn't make it past one year old.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:44:57</time>
She dies.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:44:58</time>
She has a little girl.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:44:59</time>
So you can also visit Aunt Betty's house and Rosanna's baby's grave site.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:45:03</time>
That's in Goody, Kentucky.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:45:05</time>
All of these locations are on the driving tour.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:45:09</time>
So when you when you see the driving tour, you can see how out in the middle

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:45:15</time>
of Kentucky, West Virginia, you are.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:45:18</time>
And again, you're not going to have great cell phone coverage.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:45:21</time>
So again, I remind you to please download the locations beforehand

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:45:27</time>
or take the map with you.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:45:29</time>
Perry Kline's grave site is available to you if you want to see that as well.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:45:34</time>
And the cotton top hanging site.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:45:37</time>
Again, you can go to the Paw Paw Trees.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:45:39</time>
And then, last but not least, you can go to Devil Hatfield's

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:45:44</time>
monument at his gravesite.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:45:45</time>
There's a statue of him there, so you can go and visit that as well.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:45:50</time>
There's some other places off the beaten path, you know, Bad Frank Phillips.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:45:55</time>
His grave is out there.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:45:56</time>
He ends up marrying Nancy, who was married to Johnsy.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:46:00</time>
Yeah, he did that dude in the show

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:46:02</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:46:02</time>
And he was, again, the daughter of the very first person who was killed.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:46:06</time>
So I talk about this like this was very much as you, as you start to visit these

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:46:12</time>
sites and go to these locations, they're not far away from each other enough that

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:46:15</time>
you can see how these families are so intertwined and this feud is long term.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:46:20</time>
But what has happened with these two names is they're synonymous

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:46:24</time>
now with any kind of feud,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:46:27</time>
any sort of family feud.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:46:28</time>
any family feud, any feud between two people that maybe were

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:46:31</time>
close at one time and now are not.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:46:33</time>
Maybe a few that's lasted a couple years.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:46:37</time>
Maybe a feud that is deeply ingrained in you when you're like, I hate him.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:46:41</time>
Like the Hatfield McCoy, like something that is deeply seated in you.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:46:44</time>
It's used in that vernacular.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:46:46</time>
Now it's become a part of our American psyche, this Hatfield and McCoy feud.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:46:51</time>
So it was really neat to go out there and to visit and to see it,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:46:55</time>
to understand it better, to kind of give these people more agency and to

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:47:00</time>
understand their lives a little bit more.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:47:03</time>
But I was really honored to go there to talk to the people.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:47:06</time>
And like I said,,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:47:07</time>
the feud is not a hateful thing anymore.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:47:11</time>
Everybody talks about it pretty much with a smile on their face.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:47:15</time>
They're very open.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:47:16</time>
They talk about everything and openly and happily.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:47:20</time>
So it really is now just a, if you're coming to ask about it, you're

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:47:24</time>
considered kin, you're considered part of America because it's something

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:47:28</time>
that it belongs to all of us now.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:47:29</time>
It's all of our

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:47:31</time>
Yeah, even though there are those with the name still today,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:47:34</time>
it's, it's more local legend than it really is anything else.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:47:44</time>
well, that's all the time we have for this episode.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:47:47</time>
Episode on the Hatfield McCoy feud.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:47:50</time>
A bloody mess, wasn't it?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:47:52</time>
Lives lost, families fractured, all over what started as a squabble over a pig.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:47:57</time>
Hard to believe, ain't it?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:48:00</time>
The feud finally sputtered out and around the turn of the century, but

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:48:04</time>
its echoes still linger in these hills.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:48:06</time>
Sure, the Hatfields and McCoys ain't shootin each other anymore,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:48:10</time>
but there's a wariness, a distance that time hasn't opened.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:48:13</time>
Some folks say it's a cautionary tale, a reminder of how easily

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:48:19</time>
a spark can turn into a bonfire.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:48:22</time>
Others say it's a testament to the stubborn pride that runs

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:48:25</time>
deep in these Appalachian veins.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:48:28</time>
Maybe it's both.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:48:30</time>
Whatever the case, the Hatfield McCoy feud is a story that's woven

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:48:33</time>
into the fabric of this place.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:48:35</time>
A story of violence, yes, but also of resilience.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:48:39</time>
Of families clinging to their own versions of the truth.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:48:41</time>
It's a reminder of the dark side of human nature.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:48:44</time>
But also the enduring strength of the human spirit Thank you for

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:48:50</time>
listening to the talk with history podcast and please reach out to

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:48:52</time>
us at our website talkwithhistory.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:48:54</time>
com But more importantly if you know someone else that might enjoy this

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:48:56</time>
podcast, especially this episode on Hatfields McCoy's Shoot him a text

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:49:00</time>
and tell him to look us up We rely on you our community to grow and

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:49:04</time>
we appreciate you all every day.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:49:06</time>
We'll talk to you next time

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:49:08</time>
Thank you.

The Story