Shadows of Tehran and a Life Between Worlds | Author Nick Berg - Talk With History

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Welcome to Talk with History.

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Today we're doing something a little bit different.

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We're interviewing.

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Book author Nick Berg with a very timely book interview the

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book's name is Shadows of Tehran.

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Now Nick is actually Iranian, born and raised.

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He was there all the way up until he was 19 from the Iran Revolution

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through the early eighties.

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When.

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He actually had an execution order out on him, and he had to escape

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the country to come to America.

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So we got the chance to interview Nick, talk about his life and

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how he wrote himself into the character of this historical fiction

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book called Shadows of Tehran.

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I.

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And it was in a great interview.

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Nick's background is duality.

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He is half American and half Iranian.

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And so coming to America and then learning the culture here and then

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joining the US military and everything the military gave him as far as perspective.

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With the way the world is happening right now, this book would be a

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great background to understand the world in Iran and America.

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From the revolution to where we find ourselves today.

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So stick around with us because there's more interesting stories, in

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this interview than I can even count.

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So we hope you enjoy our interview with Nick Berg, author of Shadows of Tehran.

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If they shoot you in order your family to get your body, you have

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to pay for the bullets, which is a exuberant amount of money to get the

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body of the person they just executed.

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I was actually picked up in the middle of the street and

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thrown into the Iranian army.

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So the way I got outta the country was through the Turkish border and

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so getting in the middle of the sheep and crossing the border, basically,

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, didn't know anybody, had $50 in my pocket and landed in Detroit and sat

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on the bench at the airport figuring out, okay, now what, what am I gonna do

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my image of America was, I'm gonna go to Detroit, I'm gonna join a gang, and

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I'm gonna break dancing the streets.

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And I rented a bed over there, put my suitcase, locked it up, and went

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walking the streets to find a job

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you want three meals a day as good paycheck, medical benefits.

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You want a think about signing up for the Army?

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And they opened the door, and this was August 1st.

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Iraq invaded Kuwait on August 2nd,

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Oh wow.

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and we opened the door and this rush of hot air hit me.

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So we're here with, with author and veteran.

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Man of many talents, Nick Berg.

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Nick, thanks so much for, for joining us and, and we're here to talk about,

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your book, Shadows of Tehran, as well as anything else that comes up during

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the podcast because as Jenn was saying before we started the official chat here

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is she's been looking forward to it.

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To talking to you, and again, as someone who served yourself for about 11 years

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in the Army, Jenn's a former Navy pilot.

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I'm, I'm still in.

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Just super excited to, to talk with someone else who's, writing about, a

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little bit about your life and kind of some of the history behind that.

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So can you tell us and, and our listeners and our watchers first a little bit

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about the book and then we'll just jump off the springboard from there.

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Sure.

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Absolutely.

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So the book is actually based on my life and it's, it's been.

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About two years since I started writing this book.

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And what started the book was all my friends keep saying, oh, you got such a

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great story, you gotta write this down.

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And so finally I decided, okay, I'm gonna write it down.

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And English is my third language.

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So I'm, I was really trying hard to make sure I understand how to write it

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for English, English within audience.

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So I had a. Book coach to help me write the book.

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He's a 10 times London Times bestseller

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Oh, cool.

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he helped me write this book throughout the whole process.

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But I learned so much writing the book.

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So you grew up in Iran, you escaped when you were 19, came over to

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America and, and, and joined the Army.

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Not too long after that, but aside from your experience, like the

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first time, 19 years or so of your life there in Iran, what kind of

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research did you do for the book?

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Was there, were you just reaching out to friends and family

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getting their experiences over the period that you covered?

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Because I think you covered from.

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The seventies through through the eighties.

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And was it, was it past that, through the

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Yeah, it was about early 2000.

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Early two thousands.

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So did you do any further research or was it really mostly your

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experience and then people you knew?

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I did a lot of research actually to make sure that the events, because memory

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fails you a lot of times and you see things from a, from a perspective that you

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understand at the moment and at the time, but it might not be accurate historically.

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So I, I had to do a lot of research to make sure that historically

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is accurate because I'm writing it as a historical fiction.

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What wanted to do is to have to give a people person perspective of how

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people felt during these events, but the events themselves had to be authentic

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and had to be accurate in the process.

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I.

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So that, that's really neat because

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Yeah, so I, I understand.

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So you used a, a character.

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Yeah.

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You basically built a character based on yourself, but it wasn't you, but

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that's how you wrote this, which I, I really appreciate because that way you're

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right, you have to research then because, just because you lived it Scott and I

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lived Operation Iraqi Freedom operation during Freedom doesn't mean I remember.

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All of the specifics going on that the politics and the background, right?

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I'm so focused in on what I'm doing right then and where I'm at.

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I'm not thinking about all of the other factors that are

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happening around the world.

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And so those things are important if you're writing historical fiction,

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so I can definitely understand that.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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And a lot of people ask me a lot of times why did you write this as a memoir?

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Why are you writing it as a historical as a fiction?

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More than that?

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I think based on everything that I've been in my life, I

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didn't wanna justify anything.

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I didn't want it to be me, and I wanted to be a character, and I wanted

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to be a person separate from me.

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So going through the whole book, writing, the, the writing

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process was all about not me.

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I'm talking about Ricardo and I'm talking about his life in the process.

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How so did, was there anything like during your research, and I always

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find this interesting when we get to talk to authors, was there anything

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during your research that you learned or discovered that either surprised

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you or you hadn't really known before that kind of changed the way you saw.

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Some of that, that period of history that you actually lived through,

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but maybe not had known at the time?

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Yeah, there were some details detailed things that I wasn't aware

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of that during the research process I learned at the bigger context.

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It, it didn't, it was no surprises.

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Oh my God.

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Didn't happen the way I think it happened, but it was like understanding

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that, just like Jenn was saying, is that you're so focused around your,

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your piece of the pie on this, that you'd miss the bigger picture sometimes.

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So when we talk about your personal history and what you're using for the

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historical fiction is you're talking, you're living through the Iranian

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revolution, that it's kicks off what, in like the 77 but ends in 79 and

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you're living through this and you are, you have a duality of background

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because your mother is Iranian and your father is American is, and that's

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true for your character as well.

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Now in.

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I know in your real life, your father leaves when you're seven.

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Is that true for your character as well?

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Yes.

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Now, what is that like in that culture for a father to leave

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and to be raised by a mother?

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Is that accepted in the Iranian culture or did you have Yeah,

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really.

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Tell me more.

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Yeah, so my mom, so my mom being a single mother was very difficult on her.

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And, and I tried to portray that in the book how difficult it was

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that every time she talked to anybody, any guy in the market or

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somewhere, they would look at her.

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The women would come and hold their husbands away, like

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she was trying to steal them.

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Oh wow.

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it it, the culture itself, even though that it was a, it's a modern

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culture, there's still a lot of those stigmas and stuff around single

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women, especially at that time.

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And then after the revolution happened and they took away a lot of

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the women's rights and those types of things, it became a lot worse.

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Now she was a single woman living in a house by herself under Islamic government.

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And it, it, it was a very, very difficult time.

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And I try to portray that in the book as you read the book, is that

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there was a reviewer that made a comment that sometimes survival and

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love are two different things and

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Oh

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things for survival.

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To get through things, and I think the whole stepfather coming into the

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picture and all of that, it was based more of a survival thing for her than

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it was a love thing that she wanted to live with this person and all of that.

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Mm-hmm.

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Yeah.

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That, no, that, and that's an interesting kind of observation,

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especially by a, by a book reviewer.

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Well, a hundred percent.

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And that was my experience in the Middle East too.

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So I, I remember I couldn't really shop in the Suks.

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I had to have a male with me, because no one's really gonna.

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Like you said, even make eye contact with me or so to negotiate.

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You really need a mail with you.

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And I don't think people really understand that unless they've lived

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it or seen it or what that's especially from an American Westernized culture,

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you just don't understand that concept.

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Now your mother remarried.

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Is she still in Iran today or did she come to America?

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still there.

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wow.

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And do you

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still there.

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and do you go back and visit her?

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No, I can't go back.

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Yeah, I, I, I think I saw one of your more recent interviews that said you were,

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you're a little bit of a, a rabble-rouser, and that's part of the reason why

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you you escaped the country and was

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my execution note was out, so I had to escape around

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Oh, oh my goodness.

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So explain that to me.

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I saw execution order.

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You're 19 years old.

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What does that look like?

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What, what does that, when that comes out, is it you and

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a bunch of people or just you?

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What,

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what does that it was your face on a wanted poster or something like that, or.

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kind of like that.

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But in, in Iran, during that period of time in one year, they killed over

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15,000 people of opposition people.

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They hold executions in the, in the middle of the street.

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They bring a tractor trailer with a noose on it, and they hang the people there.

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If they shoot you in order your family to get your body, you have to pay

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for the bullets, which is a exuberant amount of money to get the body of

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body of the person they just executed.

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Wow,

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It's, at that time, there's no law.

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Basically, they would just break down the doors, come into your house

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whenever they please take you away.

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And sometimes nobody would hear from you.

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Currently in Iran, there's mass graves that that I mean is miles

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and miles on mass graves, that the bodies are buried there with no

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headstones with nothing like that.

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And people have been trying to talk about it, but it's, they can't.

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Yeah,

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I see.

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Yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:40</time>
So the execution order comes out with your name on it.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:43</time>
And basically it's either you gotta get outta the country or someone's

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:47</time>
gonna turn you in, or someone's gonna show up at your door and you don't

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:49</time>
know when and you don't know who.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:51</time>
Exactly.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:52</time>
Now, how do you get outta the country then?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:54</time>
So the way I got outta the country was through the Turkish border

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:57</time>
between Iran and, and that area is where the Kurdish people live in

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:03</time>
Turkey, Iran, and Northern Iraq.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:05</time>
That's where all of the.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:07</time>
Kurdish Bedouins have, and they have sheep and have thousands of sheep.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:11</time>
And so getting in the middle of the sheep and crossing the border, basically,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:16</time>
Okay.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:16</time>
Now, now for the, I think the next part of the book was obviously the ran Iraq

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:21</time>
conflict that, that took place from 80 to 88 because you weren't there,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:25</time>
obviously your perspective was as someone who had, who had just left the

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:28</time>
no.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:29</time>
I was there during the run Iraq war.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:31</time>
Oh, you were?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:31</time>
Yeah, he was in the army.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:33</time>
Okay.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:33</time>
So you actually, when you came in the army, like you

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:35</time>
got sent, you got sent over.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:37</time>
Yeah, actually when when I joined, which Iran and, and Iraq War, if you're talking

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:43</time>
about Iran and Iraq or US and Iraq.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:46</time>
Ah, Iran and Iraq.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:46</time>
The

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:47</time>
Iran and Iraq, yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:48</time>
The Iran and Iraq War.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:50</time>
I was in Iran when it started,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:52</time>
Oh, I didn't realize that.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:54</time>
I was actually picked up in the middle of the street and

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:57</time>
thrown into the Iranian army.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:59</time>
For about six months fighting with the Iraqis.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:02</time>
And I have some scholars from it too because I, and it was basically, it

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:08</time>
took me six months to prove that because if you are a student, you were exempt.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:12</time>
So it took me six months to prove first I'm not Iranian.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:16</time>
Second I'm a student.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:17</time>
And it took about six months to do that.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:20</time>
I had lost a couple of my really good friends, one to chemical

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:23</time>
attack in Halal in Iraq.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:26</time>
I had to carry his body back from the front lines, the, to get to bury him.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:31</time>
There were rockets coming down on us pretty much every

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:34</time>
night watching the fireworks.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:36</time>
We would come out into the streets and watch the airplanes bomb, and we

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:40</time>
would count the bombs because we knew how many bombs each plane could carry.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:44</time>
And then we would know when it's when the number of bombs hit a certain amount.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:49</time>
Then we would say, okay, it's time to come back out.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:52</time>
Wow.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:53</time>
And you wrote your, your character again, your experience is all through that.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:57</time>
I'll alter that.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:58</time>
Yes.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:58</time>
Mm-hmm.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:59</time>
So then your execution order doesn't come until the eighties

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:02</time>
then if you're still in Iran

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:04</time>
It's onto 8 19 87.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:06</time>
1987. Okay.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:07</time>
Okay.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:08</time>
So when you come to America, how old are you?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:10</time>
I'm 19.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:11</time>
You are 19 and you come alone.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:13</time>
No, mom, are you?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:14</time>
mom, no family, didn't know anybody, had $50 in my pocket and landed in Detroit and

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:21</time>
sat on the bench at the airport figuring out, okay, now what, what am I gonna do

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:25</time>
Oh my gosh.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:26</time>
And can you speak any English at that time or very little?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:29</time>
very little, very broken English.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:32</time>
And it was a culture shock.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:34</time>
And, and this is the funny part, because my image of America, before that we

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:39</time>
came to America one time before the revolution in Iran and stuff to look

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:43</time>
for my dad and we couldn't find him.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:45</time>
By the way.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:45</time>
I found out my dad works for the CIA the whole time

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:48</time>
I, I, I saw that in some of your

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:50</time>
35 years later in Las Vegas,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:52</time>
crazy.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:54</time>
which is another story around own.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:57</time>
But my image of America was from movies and the things that we saw in, in Iran.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:04</time>
So at the time, break dancing was really big, and Michael Jackson was

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:09</time>
the, the, the big thing and all of that.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:11</time>
So my image of America was, I'm gonna go to Detroit, I'm gonna join a gang,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:16</time>
and I'm gonna break dancing the streets.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:19</time>
I love

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:20</time>
that.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:20</time>
That's amazing.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:21</time>
I love that.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:23</time>
. So 87, you're sitting on a bench in Detroit and you're

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:26</time>
like, what am I gonna do now?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:28</time>
So what did you do?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:29</time>
What?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:29</time>
What does your character do?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:30</time>
What do you do next?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:31</time>
So there was a taxi driver.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:33</time>
He was sitting on the bench over there because it was summer day, it was

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:36</time>
in August, and it was a summer day.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:38</time>
It was hot.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:39</time>
He was sitting there on the bench with as well.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:42</time>
I had my one little suitcase.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:44</time>
I'm just sitting there just looking around thinking, okay, now what am I gonna do?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:49</time>
And had a conversation with the guy with my broken English, and

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:53</time>
he said, where are you going?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:55</time>
I have no idea.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:56</time>
He said, you want to go to a hotel?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:58</time>
I'm like, I pulled out my money.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:01</time>
I said, this is what I got.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:02</time>
He said, that's not going to get you far.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:04</time>
Oh my gosh.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:06</time>
So he took me to a YMCA downtown Detroit which he could rent a

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:11</time>
bed basically for $10 a night.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:14</time>
And I rented a bed over there, put my suitcase, locked it up, and went

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:20</time>
walking the streets to find a job because I thought that's what you do.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:25</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:26</time>
I walked into Wendy's and there was this beautiful lady,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:30</time>
the that ran was the manager.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:33</time>
And, and she asked, I asked her for an app for a job and she gave me

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:37</time>
an application and she said, and I'm looking at this application.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:41</time>
I have no idea what to write in this application.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:45</time>
So with my broken English re communicated and she said, so do

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:49</time>
you have a social security card?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:50</time>
I'm like, what is that?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:51</time>
Oh my God.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:52</time>
Yeah, of

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:53</time>
I had no idea you needed a social security card.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:56</time>
She helped me through this whole process of getting the job and all of that stuff.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:01</time>
And my idea at the time was, so I was ripping burgers in the back

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:06</time>
because my English wasn't very good.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:08</time>
So I'm like, okay, this is my career.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:11</time>
My dream was to make it to the cash register to be the guy that.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:17</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:17</time>
It's very much like coming to America.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:19</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:19</time>
Next week I'll be on fries and then the big buck start rolling in McDonald's.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:24</time>
Not McDonald's.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:24</time>
Yeah, McDonald's.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:26</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:27</time>
So that was my idea of career progression.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:30</time>
But there was this strip mall across the street and the Army

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:35</time>
Police Station in that strip mall.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:38</time>
They would come and eat lunch at the Wendy's once in a while.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:41</time>
And this gentleman, he would, and every, we started talking and having

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:46</time>
conversations and stuff and he said, Hey I know you're here and all of this stuff.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:51</time>
You want three meals a day as good paycheck, medical benefits.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:57</time>
You want a think about signing up for the Army?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:00</time>
I'm like, sign me up.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:02</time>
This is great.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:03</time>
Let's do it.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:04</time>
When I took the ASVAB test,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:06</time>
That's

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:07</time>
which I completely bombed it by the way the math and the physics and things like

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:11</time>
that was good English, not very good.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:15</time>
So the only thing I qualified for was infantry

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:19</time>
that's wild.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:21</time>
That's, I mean, that is, that is quite the, quite the story.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:24</time>
Now, I think you said too, or at least some of your interviews and

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:28</time>
I collected some stuff together.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:29</time>
You said the Army really?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:31</time>
Taught you the life skills and gave you that structure, gave you that

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:34</time>
foundation to, to, to make your, your, your life here in America.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:38</time>
Was that the, the same for your character through the book?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:41</time>
It is the same thing for the characters through the book.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:43</time>
I mean, army taught me what America is about and it gave me a family

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:48</time>
that I didn't have and it was, I. Unreal for me, going through basic

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:54</time>
training and all of that stuff because I went through basic training

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:58</time>
for three weeks when I was in Iran.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:00</time>
Oh yeah,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:01</time>
I first, I was really afraid when the sergeants would yell at you and

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:05</time>
scream at after the first few days, I figured, man, they can't beat you up.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:10</time>
I'm.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:13</time>
My guys.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:13</time>
Oh, they can't, they can't hit me.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:15</time>
So the difference between American basic and Iranian basic is the

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:20</time>
physi, the physicality of what the instructor can do to you.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:23</time>
So in Iran, they really could hit you and beat

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:26</time>
They hit you, they slap you, they throw you around.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:30</time>
Oh wow.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:31</time>
But in American Army, I figured out all they can do is make me do pushups.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:35</time>
I'm like, why not

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:37</time>
yeah, yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:38</time>
do that all little?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:39</time>
Well, your perspective was so like, Hey, I got, I got this.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:42</time>
And

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:43</time>
I, and, and I, I think too, all of us who've gone through if anybody's

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:46</time>
listening or watching, anybody who's gone through bootcamp has that moment.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:50</time>
When they realize okay, I can, I can do this right?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:53</time>
I can play this game, I can play this game.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:54</time>
It was the same for me.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:55</time>
And I had, I had nowhere near the experience, you know, doing my

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:59</time>
Navy version of, of bootcamp when I went through through college.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:02</time>
But after a fir, the first few days, after you get used to

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:05</time>
getting yelled at, I. Same thing.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:07</time>
All it can make me do is just do more pushups, and so it's, it's

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:10</time>
that you have that realization.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:11</time>
Mm-hmm.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:12</time>
Especially for you.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:12</time>
You had already been through a much, a much different experience.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:15</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:16</time>
I think that's amazing.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:17</time>
So how long before you joined the Army were you in America?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:20</time>
With about a year.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:22</time>
About six months.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:23</time>
months.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:23</time>
Okay.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:23</time>
So I love that you found the Army and IFI love that you found and happy

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:28</time>
250th birthday to the Army, by the way.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:30</time>
Yeah,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:30</time>
yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:30</time>
Happy birthday to the Army.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:32</time>
I love that you found that because that is what the military does.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:35</time>
I really do believe that.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:36</time>
It gives you that family, it gives you that sense of community.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:39</time>
It builds up you as a person.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:42</time>
It teaches you how to those life.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:44</time>
Skills.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:44</time>
And then it also offers you ways to develop yourself

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:47</time>
with education and training.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:50</time>
And I love that's what you found and you were able to do that.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:53</time>
I feel like it's almost like a blessing that happened to you.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:55</time>
It was a, it was a great blessing.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:57</time>
I owe everything to the army.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:59</time>
I mean, my whole life after.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:02</time>
Coming to the, to the us I owe it to the Army.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:05</time>
And I was so disappointed when I had to leave the Army.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:09</time>
And the reason was 'cause I got injured in Bosnia and I couldn't be on the

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:14</time>
teams anymore and I couldn't do the jump outta airplanes and all of that stuff.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:19</time>
So I, it, it was a real disappointment for me that I

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:24</time>
couldn't finish the whole 20 years.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:26</time>
Well, I love that the Army also recognized.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:30</time>
Your potential as half Iranian that they could use you in

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:35</time>
this, in the Middle East, right?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:37</time>
And so I'm glad that they able were to recognize that as well.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:40</time>
And you were able to do that.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:41</time>
What was it like going back in that capacity?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:45</time>
What did that feel like?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:46</time>
The interesting part was, and, and I never forget that day when the steam

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:51</time>
port one landed that we spent 17 hours on the Blackbird Steel 1 41 from Pul

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:57</time>
first base into the Haran airport, when the first Gulf War happened.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:02</time>
And I got off that plane because they told us we were going to Turkey.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:07</time>
And they opened the door, and this was August 1st.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:11</time>
Iraq invaded Kuwait on August 2nd,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:13</time>
Oh wow.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:14</time>
and we opened the door and this rush of hot air hit me.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:21</time>
And as soon as he hit me, a friend of mine that was sitting with

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:25</time>
me, he's oh, we're in Turkey.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:27</time>
I'm like, no, we're not.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:30</time>
You knew.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:33</time>
You knew.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:34</time>
I could not forget that.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:36</time>
Desert

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:36</time>
heat.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:37</time>
And so when we get off the plane and and get ready, they finally tell us

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:42</time>
we're in Saudi Arabia and where ex they were expecting Iraq to invade Kuwait.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:48</time>
And they pulled us to the right, the edge of Saudi Iraq, Kuwait corner of the area.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:56</time>
And I never forget, we were standing there with a bunch of stinger missiles and.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:00</time>
Bunch of our weapons and stuff and general luck at the time was

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:04</time>
the, at Airborne Corps commander.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:06</time>
He was in charge and he came up to me and he said, son, see that highway?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:13</time>
I'm like, yes, sir. He said, if the Iraqis decide to come into Saudi Arabia,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:19</time>
they're gonna come through here and there's two battalion tank battalions

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:23</time>
sitting at the other end of this highway.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:26</time>
What do you think we're gonna do?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:28</time>
I said, well, sir, we're just gonna fight with them.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:31</time>
He said, we don't have enough ammo or people here to fight the tank batal.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:36</time>
I said, well, then we just throw rocks at 'em, sir. He said, yes.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:40</time>
The spirit that's.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:46</time>
That's, that's what general's looking for.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:47</time>
She's just some fight.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:49</time>
I just need some fight with my soldiers.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:50</time>
We'll figure it out.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:51</time>
So that's, that's amazing.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:52</time>
How did you feel?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:55</time>
Going back to fight

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:56</time>
how did you, how did that make you feel?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:58</time>
And I know that this is a, this is personal.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:01</time>
This is not who your character is, but when, when you write a character

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:04</time>
who's having this duality, and I think that is the biggest thing here.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:08</time>
It's survival, it's duality, it's, it's you, you're straddling two worlds here.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:13</time>
You're American and Iranian.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:15</time>
And what's hard about that is you don't really get accepted by either,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:19</time>
but your heart belongs to both.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:21</time>
Yeah, and the feeling was okay.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:23</time>
I spent all of this time running out of Iran, going through Europe,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:27</time>
getting to America, joining the Army.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:29</time>
Now here I'm back in the same desert, fighting the same guys from a different

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:33</time>
Mm-hmm.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:34</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:35</time>
Wow.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:35</time>
But even if Iran would've gotten involved into that war there is a

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:40</time>
big difference with fighting your people and fighting a government.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:43</time>
Yes.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:44</time>
Hmm.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:45</time>
And throughout this whole last few days where all of the attacks on Iran from

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:50</time>
Israel and all of this happened, everybody keep asking me, so what do you think?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:54</time>
I'm like, Israel is not fighting the Iranian people.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:58</time>
They're fighting the Islamic government.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:01</time>
And I was fighting against that Islamic government before I left Iran.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:05</time>
That's why my execution note was out.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:07</time>
There's a big separation of difference between the government

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:11</time>
and the military in Iran as well.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:13</time>
So when you hear about the IRGC in Iran, which is the kind of like the

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:18</time>
Iraqi Republican guards and all of that, they're the defenders of the

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:23</time>
government, not the defenders of Iran.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:26</time>
All of the heads that Israel took out, they're all IRGC commanders.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:31</time>
These are the same people that in 2019 and 2022.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:35</time>
Suppressed all of the uprising of women life freedom in Iran.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:39</time>
They're the same ones that executed a lot of my friends, so I don't

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:44</time>
see them as representative of Iran.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:46</time>
I see them as the Islamic government.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:49</time>
Yeah, I, I really appreciate that perspective.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:52</time>
'cause that, that very easily gets lost when you're just watching the news and

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:56</time>
you just, you see the highlights of, hey, bombed, nuclear, facility sites and you

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:00</time>
just, it's just the country in general.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:02</time>
But I, I appreciate that perspective, and that's something that I want our

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:05</time>
listeners and our, and our viewers to to really listen and, and to think about.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:08</time>
It's, to your point, it's, it's the, the, the, the government of the, that

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:13</time>
aren't really protecting the people.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:15</time>
And I think in, in some other spots, you said it's anywhere from 80 to 90%

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:19</time>
of the people are actually pro western.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:22</time>
right.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:23</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:23</time>
And they've just been suppressed and I like, I love that because

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:27</time>
it's real world experience from you this clash of east versus west.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:31</time>
Why do you think people don't wanna hear the truth?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:33</time>
Like why do you think people think Iran?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:35</time>
Iran is.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:38</time>
Is all of this, and it's not these people who are being oppressed.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:42</time>
And when you think about women's rights in Iran, like I'm telling what rights, right?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:46</time>
Like I'm always like talking about the way women are treated there.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:50</time>
I I was over there 20 years ago, right?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:53</time>
And I made a point to always wear my hair down so that you

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:56</time>
could see that I was a woman and.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:59</time>
What I learned through my military experience is I actually gave hope

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:03</time>
to those Iranian women that there is a, the westernized culture does

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:08</time>
support women's rights and do actually see women as being something, being

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:12</time>
more than just being suppressed.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:15</time>
And I wanted to do that to give them hope and I don't know why here

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:21</time>
in America that's hard for people to see that or understand that.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:25</time>
What do you

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:25</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:25</time>
So this is a, this is a symptom of the Western culture because the governments

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:31</time>
are representatives of the people.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:34</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:34</time>
When your government is a representative of people, your military is a

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:38</time>
representative of your people, so the government and the people,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:42</time>
even though you might be on the left, you might be on the right.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:45</time>
You might not disagree on a lot of the topics and the decisions and all of

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:50</time>
that, but the government is the people, and the people is the government.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:54</time>
So when you grow up in that type of a society, you don't understand when

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:59</time>
a dictator runs things on their own.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:28:02</time>
You think the people are supporting 'em.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:28:04</time>
That's why they're in power.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:28:06</time>
a lot of people ask me, so why doesn't people in Iran

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:28:08</time>
just overthrow the government?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:28:10</time>
They think it's just like Rich, but it's

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:28:13</time>
Mm-hmm.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:28:14</time>
Not that simple.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:28:16</time>
It's, it's a very different way of looking at things and the way

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:28:20</time>
different, so in, in America, in Europe, in most of these countries,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:28:26</time>
they feel that the government is theirs.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:28:29</time>
But in Iran, the government is a separate entity.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:28:33</time>
Yeah, that's, that's a great point.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:28:34</time>
And that's something again, I think that we try to talk

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:28:37</time>
about through history, right?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:28:38</time>
When we talk about our history topics, we try to try to be cognizant of the lens

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:28:43</time>
that we are looking at something through.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:28:46</time>
Whether it's our modern day morals and values and, and what we know of,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:28:50</time>
whether it's like a slavery topic or the American Revolution or whatever it is,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:28:55</time>
we try to be cognizant of our modern day lens that we're looking at it through.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:28:58</time>
But to your point, this is the American Western lens that we're

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:29:02</time>
looking at other countries through.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:29:04</time>
So that's, I think that's a really good point.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:29:06</time>
And for, for folks who are history fans and, and, and listeners and, and, and

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:29:10</time>
audience of ours, I would, I would.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:29:12</time>
I would hope that they they make that connection because I think

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:29:15</time>
that's a really good point.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:29:16</time>
Yeah, absolutely.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:29:18</time>
And, and the thing is, and and I'm go, I'm gonna break this topic up because

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:29:21</time>
I feel very passionate about it.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:29:23</time>
Is, is that when people talk about the Israeli and Gaza war, and there's a lot

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:29:29</time>
of people that say, oh my God, those poor people are dying over there, and Israel

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:29:34</time>
is bombing them and doing this and doing that, my argument to that is, did you

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:29:40</time>
feel the same way when we bombed Berlin?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:29:43</time>
Hmm.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:29:44</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:29:45</time>
destroy the Nazis.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:29:46</time>
Yep.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:29:47</time>
There were a lot of innocent people there.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:29:49</time>
There were a lot of women and children that

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:29:51</time>
Mm-hmm.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:29:52</time>
and those were the people that, maybe not all of them, but

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:29:55</time>
majority of them elected Hitler.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:29:57</time>
So the thing is, in every war, unfortunately, there is casualties and

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:30:04</time>
there is civilian casualties, and there is innocent people that are gonna die.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:30:09</time>
That doesn't change the fact that we have to fight the Just war.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:30:13</time>
Yeah,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:30:13</time>
I know, and people love to use World War II and Nazism as

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:30:17</time>
their example for everything.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:30:19</time>
But they never forget the other side of it.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:30:21</time>
Like I always remind people we didn't come into the war.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:30:24</time>
For a long time, right?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:30:26</time>
And we just kinda watched things happen for a long time, America, right?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:30:30</time>
We like to tote ourselves as the heroes, but like for a long

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:30:33</time>
time we just let that happen.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:30:34</time>
So imagine if we had the opportunity to bomb areas before they

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:30:41</time>
opened the concentration camps.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:30:42</time>
Before they did that.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:30:44</time>
What?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:30:44</time>
Imagine we had that opportunity, what would that have looked like for America?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:30:48</time>
And people don't like to think about that with the modernization of

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:30:52</time>
everything, but I really loved your analogy where you talked about your,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:30:58</time>
your character and your book with the mirror and the window, right?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:31:03</time>
So looking at themselves, themselves, their life, who they are and

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:31:07</time>
the window, the opportunity.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:31:09</time>
Can you explain that analogy for me?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:31:11</time>
'cause for the, our listeners, because I thought that was just insightful about

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:31:15</time>
your character and what they're going through in their personal background

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:31:19</time>
and what they're doing in the world with this conflict that's going on.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:31:24</time>
Yeah the way I the message of the book it's, it's really about hope.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:31:29</time>
It's, it's about it's about no matter what you are going through,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:31:34</time>
it's not a basis of comparison.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:31:36</time>
Oh my God, this guy saw a lot of dead bodies.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:31:39</time>
I've never been in that situation and so my life is not as bad.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:31:43</time>
That's not the point.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:31:44</time>
The point is that no matter what life through you, you can't

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:31:48</time>
control the external things that into you, but you can make the

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:31:53</time>
decision to be a victim or survive.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:31:55</time>
And it's a personal decision, and what changes your life is

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:32:00</time>
those series of decisions that you make throughout your life.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:32:04</time>
So what I'm, what I was trying to do with that mirror is look at yourself.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:32:10</time>
Look at the decisions that you have made, and use that window to see

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:32:15</time>
what decisions other people have made and what changed their lives

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:32:20</time>
and what you can change in your own life in order to be a better person.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:32:24</time>
Yeah, I love that because history, I'm a big fan of history doesn't repeat itself.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:32:30</time>
But it echoes.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:32:31</time>
And if you can learn from history, if you can look through that window

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:32:34</time>
of history and see what people did in the past and how they acted, it

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:32:39</time>
can give you a good reflection in the mirror of how maybe you can use that

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:32:44</time>
knowledge and act and move forward.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:32:46</time>
And I really loved that.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:32:48</time>
Yeah, during my time when I was when I was in Iran and I'm working

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:32:52</time>
against the government, the French parties, and were my heroes.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:32:55</time>
yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:32:56</time>
Yes.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:32:57</time>
I did a lot of reading around World War II and really understanding their tactics,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:33:02</time>
what they did and how they did it, and all of that so that they were my heroes.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:33:07</time>
And so looking at that window was, is how they adapted to live on their Nazis

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:33:13</time>
and how that reflected in my life, living under the Islamic government.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:33:19</time>
Now that, that's cool that you.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:33:21</time>
And, and that's what I like about asking and seeing how people research

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:33:24</time>
their books and stuff like that.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:33:25</time>
'cause Jenn's working on her on her own historical fiction.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:33:28</time>
And I, I love hearing about how people research because

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:33:31</time>
different eras of history, I.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:33:33</time>
Have different resources, right?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:33:35</time>
If you're writing a book about a president, sometimes a president was,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:33:38</time>
kept all sorts of journals and you can get primary source or for you, right?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:33:43</time>
You live through large parts of it, but you're also studying World War ii.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:33:48</time>
And some of the experiences there.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:33:50</time>
'cause I, I think you quoted a couple times, Winston Churchill, or

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:33:52</time>
at least attributed him when you're going through, hell keep going.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:33:55</time>
And it seems like kind of like a core tenet of, of you and your character,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:33:59</time>
of going through these, these highs and lows of, of life and through

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:34:03</time>
these, through these conflicts.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:34:04</time>
And so it's always interesting to me seeing, and again for our audience,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:34:09</time>
realizing that when you're researching.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:34:12</time>
A, a topic or you're researching for a book.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:34:14</time>
It doesn't have to be just on that area, but you can see, war is

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:34:18</time>
different, but it's also the same, throughout, throughout the years.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:34:22</time>
And so the experiences and, and what different societies and cultures

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:34:27</time>
and areas of the world go through.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:34:29</time>
While there are very different in every conflict, people are still people.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:34:33</time>
Absolutely.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:34:34</time>
Absolutely.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:34:35</time>
So I had a question for you that I, you talk a lot about indoctrination

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:34:39</time>
and lies, and you have the people you know are swayed by politics

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:34:44</time>
and you say sometimes uneducated.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:34:46</time>
In today's day and age, we even see educated people who are swayed

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:34:51</time>
by indoctrination and lies and.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:34:53</time>
It happens in every country.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:34:55</time>
So what, what have you found is the best way to kind of like, is it just

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:35:00</time>
getting the stories out there, getting people to just listen instead of talk?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:35:05</time>
Is it getting people to just do their own research?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:35:08</time>
What do you think is the best way to overcome that?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:35:11</time>
Indoctrination and lies.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:35:13</time>
The thing is, is that when we, when I talk about uneducated, I'm not

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:35:18</time>
talking about school education,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:35:20</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:35:20</time>
there's a big difference.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:35:22</time>
You could have a PhD and still be in it.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:35:25</time>
Yeah, that's that's very true.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:35:27</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:35:29</time>
So it, it's not about school education, it's about life

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:35:33</time>
education, it's about looking at the past, looking at the history.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:35:37</time>
I'm a big, huge history above.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:35:39</time>
So it's really understanding what happened, what are the

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:35:43</time>
things that happened in the past.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:35:46</time>
Everything from when we look at World War I and the causes of

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:35:49</time>
the World War I, why it started.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:35:51</time>
Everybody likes to talk about World War ii, but World War I was

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:35:54</time>
actually the starter of World War ii.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:35:56</time>
So when you look World War I and what happened there and how Hitler came into

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:36:01</time>
power and influenced big populations based on what happened in World War I and how

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:36:08</time>
used that to basically, create the Jews as the enemy of Germany and, and all of that.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:36:15</time>
So there's a lot of lessons in there from the propaganda perspective, from

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:36:20</time>
understanding how he was able to change minds of people to do all of those things.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:36:26</time>
And then when it comes to religion, it's becomes a

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:36:30</time>
completely different picture and.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:36:33</time>
As Nietzche once said, good people will always do good and bad.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:36:36</time>
People will always do bad, but for a good person to do bad, it takes religion.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:36:42</time>
Interesting.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:36:43</time>
Yep.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:36:44</time>
that is really interest to understand the, your own belief system and what you

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:36:51</time>
own Compass in your life is and how you.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:36:55</time>
Look at things and Yeah, especially today with social media and all of these

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:36:59</time>
things, there's a lot of influences on you, but do your own research.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:37:04</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:37:05</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:37:05</time>
I think that's one of the most, one of the most important things we

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:37:07</time>
always try to just mention, right?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:37:09</time>
We've done, I don't know how many podcasts now, 150 plus 160,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:37:14</time>
and when we're talking about.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:37:16</time>
Fellow authors or the topics we're always trying to talk about, Hey, this

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:37:21</time>
is, these are great places to start.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:37:23</time>
If it's primary source, that's ideal, but if you're reading

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:37:26</time>
another author, you gotta make sure you do your own homework, right?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:37:29</time>
We talked about Steven Ambrose not too long ago, and he did some, some

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:37:32</time>
amazing things for history and for World War II in the World War II Museum.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:37:35</time>
But he had his own weaknesses as well.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:37:38</time>
And and we always say that doesn't mean that.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:37:41</time>
It's not good information.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:37:42</time>
It just means that you need to make sure that you have the critical

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:37:46</time>
thinking skills enough, right?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:37:48</time>
The life experience enough to know Hey, if I have a question about this

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:37:51</time>
thing, I shouldn't just always take it in in blind faith as the truth.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:37:56</time>
I should, I should do my own homework, I should do my own research.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:37:59</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:37:59</time>
So I grew up in my uncle's bookstore.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:38:01</time>
My and it's in the book.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:38:03</time>
My uncle had this really small bookstore that he repaired all antique

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:38:08</time>
books and, and things like that.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:38:11</time>
So he was kind like my father.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:38:14</time>
For most of my time in Iran that I, I grew up with.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:38:17</time>
And he, he was a real critical thinker in, in this process and I

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:38:22</time>
learned so much from him and inside of that bookstore and and all of that.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:38:27</time>
And he always told me, he said, when you read in the book, keep in mind that

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:38:32</time>
that's the perspective of the writer.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:38:34</time>
And remember that the history is always written by the victors.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:38:39</time>
And so there's always another side to

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:38:42</time>
Mm-hmm.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:38:43</time>
So

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:38:43</time>
a great lesson to learn when you're

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:38:45</time>
you're reading these things.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:38:46</time>
Yep.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:38:47</time>
Absolutely.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:38:47</time>
That's, that's a phenomenal lesson to have built into you at a young age

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:38:51</time>
because it's too easy now, especially with the internet and stuff like that.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:38:55</time>
You just, you Google something and you assume that the top couple hits are true.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:38:58</time>
That's not the case.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:39:00</time>
Not not

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:39:00</time>
case.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:39:01</time>
Go

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:39:01</time>
Now your character in the book, you, you're gonna, you,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:39:04</time>
you wanna write more, right?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:39:05</time>
So where does the story end for your character?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:39:08</time>
What time is the story ending and what, what would be the next follow on to it?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:39:14</time>
So the next book is gonna be finishing Ricardo's story basically, and that would

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:39:19</time>
be probably somewhere around 20 18, 20 19.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:39:24</time>
That's where I'm gonna finish his story.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:39:27</time>
The third book is gonna be about my dad

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:39:29</time>
Okay.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:39:30</time>
Oh,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:39:30</time>
okay.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:39:31</time>
because he passed away two years ago.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:39:34</time>
And I spent three weeks before he passed away with and recorded all of his

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:39:38</time>
stories to write it as the third book.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:39:42</time>
And he was a Naval intelligent officer.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:39:45</time>
He was a Navy.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:39:46</time>
Okay.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:39:47</time>
All right.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:39:47</time>
Fell fellow Army, Navy.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:39:49</time>
Army, Navy, family.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:39:50</time>
Now, in our research, I saw that you've, you've talked about him, right?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:39:53</time>
He had worked for, was it CIA or was it Navy intelligence?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:39:57</time>
Yeah, he worked for the CIA quite an, sounds like his story

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:40:01</time>
would be quite interesting.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:40:02</time>
So can you touch a little bit on, on him and maybe what you'll write in that book?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:40:07</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:40:08</time>
His story, he was, he was in Vietnam during the Vietnam War and his ship

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:40:13</time>
docked in Iran at the time in the sixties, and that's where he met my mom and.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:40:19</time>
He was actually was supposed to be in Iran, and he was leaving

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:40:25</time>
the Navy and coming to Iran.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:40:29</time>
And after I found him 35 years later in Las Vegas, I asked him, I said so, because

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:40:35</time>
then I found out that I have a whole bunch of half-sisters and brothers in Egypt, in

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:40:39</time>
Lebanon, in couple other places as well.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:40:43</time>
And I asked him, I said, so why do you have so many women

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:40:47</time>
and families and all of that?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:40:50</time>
And his answer was having a family is the best cover.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:40:54</time>
Oh my gosh.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:40:54</time>
You know when I read that about you and I was talking to

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:40:57</time>
Scott, CIA, I'm like his dad.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:40:59</time>
Sounds like the typical James Bond from the, from the work we have

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:41:03</time>
done with people like your dad.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:41:06</time>
I. That is the best cover, and I wasn't surprised to hear that you had, he had

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:41:11</time>
other families, because that was even my experience working with those people

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:41:17</time>
Yeah, but one thing I say about my dad, he wasn't an emotional person.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:41:21</time>
He wasn't in my life for a very long time, and but he did work with the

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:41:26</time>
US Army and directed a lot of the things that I did in the US Army.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:41:32</time>
He knew exactly where I was, what I was doing, and he had complete insight into

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:41:38</time>
everything from the time I left Iran.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:41:40</time>
Wow.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:41:41</time>
And I didn't know he was there.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:41:43</time>
Wow.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:41:43</time>
That's, that's gotta be, I mean, h how, what did that feel like when

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:41:48</time>
you found out that he had he, he had that insight oversight on your life.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:41:53</time>
Was that kind of a relief?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:41:54</time>
Was that like, I, I imagine you must have had some mixed feelings about that.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:41:59</time>
I working with special operations in the Army.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:42:03</time>
I understood him.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:42:05</time>
Ah, okay.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:42:05</time>
Of course, yeah, you could, you, you had a little bit of insight

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:42:08</time>
already so you could categorize

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:42:09</time>
my sister is completely the opposite of me.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:42:13</time>
She's oh my God, he's an idiot.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:42:15</time>
He's this, he's that.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:42:16</time>
He didn't take care of us, he, all of that.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:42:19</time>
But I completely understood him.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:42:22</time>
I only completely understood his mentality.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:42:25</time>
For him, it was country and his job, that's all he cared about in his life.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:42:32</time>
Everything else was a vehicle to get the job done.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:42:36</time>
Wow.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:42:36</time>
It's, it sounds like quintessential James bond, right?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:42:39</time>
That, that unforgiving love of country, right?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:42:42</time>
Like it make it, you just, whatever it takes for that love of country and.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:42:48</time>
I, I'll be honest with you, between, between our listeners

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:42:51</time>
and you, we need people like that.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:42:53</time>
And so I'm thankful for people like your father.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:42:56</time>
Yes, we do.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:42:56</time>
We, we need people like that.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:42:58</time>
Okay.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:42:58</time>
All right.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:42:58</time>
Right on.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:42:59</time>
That's good.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:42:59</time>
So if, if people want to find your book, if they wanna find more about

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:43:03</time>
you and keep track of you and, and look for your future books, because I

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:43:08</time>
think that, I mean, I, I'm, I'm gonna probably order your book because I

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:43:11</time>
just think it sounds so fascinating.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:43:13</time>
I'm enjoying this, this conversation and I think the future books

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:43:16</time>
will be just as interesting.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:43:17</time>
Where, where's the best place for, for folks to, to find you and

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:43:20</time>
So my website pn berg.com.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:43:23</time>
Okay.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:43:24</time>
That's, and by the way, I go by Nick because it was easier.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:43:29</time>
My first name is Pedro.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:43:31</time>
That's why I named the character Ricardo.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:43:34</time>
And with the last name, which is Berg, which is sounds Jewish and in in Iran.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:43:40</time>
And you saw on all those comments and everything else they're talking

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:43:43</time>
about that he might be Jewish.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:43:44</time>
I'm not Jewish.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:43:46</time>
My mom was Raan, actually she was a Muslim.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:43:49</time>
I grew up as a Zora and, everybody called me the Spanish

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:43:54</time>
Jewish person with the Iranian background that never fit anywhere.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:43:58</time>
So the, the, the book, they can find it on my website, pburg.com.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:44:04</time>
The book's available everywhere.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:44:06</time>
Book sold.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:44:06</time>
Amazon, Barnes and Noble.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:44:09</time>
Any of the local bookstores, they can, they can find it there.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:44:13</time>
We, we really appreciate you joining us today and, and telling us, about your,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:44:17</time>
your life and your, your book and, and all the stuff that's around that because

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:44:21</time>
it is chockfull of not only history, but.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:44:26</time>
I mean, you're the primary source in this, for a lot of this stuff, which

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:44:29</time>
is, which is fun for, for us as, as as history nerds, well, history nerd and,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:44:33</time>
and, and aspiring, married to a history nerd right here, as I joke all the time.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:44:38</time>
But it, it's fun to be able to, I. Learn about the research you did, but also

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:44:43</time>
that you are part of the primary source, which is, which is pretty unique for us.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:44:46</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:44:47</time>
And the book is called, Yes.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:44:48</time>
The book is called Shadows of Teran, and I want people to understand we're

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:44:53</time>
living in the shadows of teran right now.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:44:57</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:44:57</time>
So if you wanna read something, learn something that is based in real history of

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:02</time>
what is happening in the world today, this would be a great book for you to start.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:07</time>
So we thank you for joining us today.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:10</time>
It was a great conversation.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:11</time>
We are praying for your mom and your family over there, we hope.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:16</time>
fine right now.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:17</time>
I talked to her yesterday.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:18</time>
She's fine.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:19</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:19</time>
And uh.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:20</time>
The, the, the biggest thing is, is coming to America and living here,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:25</time>
I really appreciate everything that this country has done for me.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:30</time>
And, there is no greater place to live.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:32</time>
And so I was talking to somebody, I said, if America changes and goes away the way

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:38</time>
it is today, there's nowhere else to go.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:42</time>
That's it.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:43</time>
Yeah, that's so true.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:44</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:45</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:45</time>
Look at that.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:45</time>
You got this one.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:46</time>
I got this one.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:47</time>
Emotional.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:47</time>
Well, thanks again and again for our watchers and our listeners.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:50</time>
I'll have all the information for Nick's book down in the show

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:52</time>
notes and the video description.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:54</time>
I'll flash some stuff up on the screen as well.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:56</time>
But thank you again, Nick, for joining us and and for our audience,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:45:59</time>
we'll talk to you guys next time.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:46:02</time>
All right.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:46:03</time>
So what'd you guys think of our interview , with Nick?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:46:05</time>
There was.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:46:06</time>
More surprises to me, even after I'd done my research and looked at his other

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:46:10</time>
podcast and interviews he's been on,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:46:12</time>
, we even found out he was a little starstruck talking to us because he's

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:46:15</time>
been following us for a couple years.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:46:17</time>
But what'd you guys think of that, Jen?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:46:19</time>
What'd you think of the interview?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:46:19</time>
I felt like it was so validating about where America is today, about our

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:46:25</time>
love of country, our love of, serving.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:46:28</time>
, in, , in the greatest military in the world.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:46:30</time>
But he really put a lot of perspective as someone who grew up through it all and

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:46:37</time>
what's happening today, what he's seeing today, I loved his perspective, his

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:46:41</time>
point of view, historical fiction, writing about what's going on today from a real

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:46:46</time>
life perspective of someone who lived it.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:46:48</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:46:48</time>
, and it sounds like he's got a couple more books coming out

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:46:51</time>
that are even more interesting.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:46:52</time>
Like the, the story about his father having worked for the, the Navy in

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:46:56</time>
the intelligence world, and then the CIA and then he found out he's got.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:47:00</time>
A bunch of half brothers and sisters all spread throughout

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:47:02</time>
the, throughout the globe.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:47:04</time>
, it was just a fascinating interview.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:47:06</time>
Nick was such a, a positive person and I, I just so enjoyed talking

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:47:12</time>
to him as a fellow veteran.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:47:13</time>
, someone who had served in the Army for 11 years and would've

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:47:16</time>
done more if he could have.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:47:18</time>
, and now he's getting this story out there.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:47:20</time>
It's fun to talk to someone who is a primary source.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:47:24</time>
Mm-hmm.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:47:24</time>
Right?

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:47:24</time>
That is incredibly rare for us.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:47:26</time>
, I don't know if we could ever really say that.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:47:28</time>
, and the fact that he not only researched what happened there in the Middle

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:47:32</time>
East, but other wars to help fill out some of the experiences of the

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:47:37</time>
characters in his story, which I just thought was a really interesting way.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:47:41</time>
I Interesting piece of how authors do what they do.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:47:44</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:47:44</time>
And as historians, you, we know you love this podcast in, in

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:47:48</time>
this show because of history.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:47:50</time>
If you wanna learn more about what's happening in the world

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:47:52</time>
today, this would be a great book.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:47:54</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:47:54</time>
This would be a great way to start.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:47:55</time>
Just get, get your feet wet in someone who's lived through this

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:47:59</time>
Iranian revolution, then through the Iranian Iraq war, then

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:48:02</time>
coming to America and going back.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:48:04</time>
It really is.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:48:05</time>
A great foundation to where America is today and all of these different

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:48:10</time>
conflicts that are going on.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:48:12</time>
, it gives you a great understanding of this from our generation.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:48:17</time>
So yeah, I really think this was.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:48:19</time>
A wonderful interview for us to do and , we don't really do a lot of like

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:48:24</time>
current events, but I feel like this is very important and the history of

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:48:29</time>
it is important for everyone to learn.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:48:31</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:48:31</time>
So if you want a book with good story that's well researched, that's accurate

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:48:35</time>
because he took his time making sure it was accurate and not just biased from

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:48:38</time>
his, from his view, from going through it.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:48:41</time>
That will help explain what's going on in the world today and give you

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:48:45</time>
some knowledge and foundation in that.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:48:47</time>
Check out shadows of Tehran.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:48:49</time>
Links are in the video description or podcast show notes below.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:48:52</time>
We hope you enjoyed this, this podcast, and our interview with Nick,

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:48:55</time>
and we'll talk to you next time.

<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:48:56</time>
Thank you.

The Story