Rose Greenhow | Civil War Spy & Washington D.C. Historic Travel

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:00:00</time>
<p>The Allen Pinkerton of the Pinkerton detective agency because they're actually</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:00:03</time>
<p>working at the time for President Lincoln.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:00:06</time>
<p>So he hires him.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:00:06</time>
<p>Why don't you watch her house?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:00:09</time>
<p>First Battle Bull Run happens in July.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:00:11</time>
<p>In August.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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<p>Pinkerton's hired to look at Rose Greenhow House</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
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<p>and he's literally just like peeking in the windows.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:00:16</time>
<p>He's peeking, like he's standing on someone's shoulders</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:00:20</time>
<p>looking in the windows,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
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<p>welcome to Talk with History.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:35</time>
<p>I'm your host Scott here with my wife and historian Jen.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
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<p>Hello.</p>
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<cite>Scott:</cite>
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<p>On this podcast, we give you insights into our history inspired Travels</p>
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<cite>Scott:</cite>
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<p>YouTube channel journey, and examine history through deeper conversations</p>
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<cite>Scott:</cite>
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<p>with the curious the explorers and the history lovers out there.</p>
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<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:51</time>
<p>Now, this week I wanna tell folks about the, our hashtag historic newsletter.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:56</time>
<p>We've actually seen some solid growth recently, and we're excited this is</p>
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<cite>Scott:</cite>
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<p>starting to gain some traction because there's a lot of history we can share</p>
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<p>through the newsletter that might not ever make it to the podcast or a video.</p>
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<p>So if you're curious to check out that newsletter, it's.</p>
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<p>Doesn't cost a single thing, all you gotta do is go to history newsletter.com.</p>
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<p>and you can sign up for free.</p>
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<time>00:01:19</time>
<p>So that's history newsletter.com.</p>
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<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:22</time>
<p>History newsletter.com.</p>
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<p>Check it out.</p>
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<time>00:01:24</time>
<p>It's a lot of fun.</p>
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<cite>Scott:</cite>
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<p>You can feel free to, to email us back when you get the kind</p>
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<cite>Scott:</cite>
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<p>of welcome aboard initial email.</p>
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<cite>Scott:</cite>
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<p>. And actually, with that, I wanna call out someone who's been listening both to the</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
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<p>podcast and subscribing to the newsletter.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
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<p>It's a monthly newsletter and she actually responded to one of</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:39</time>
<p>our newsletter posts recently.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
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<p>Her name is, . So she said, hello.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
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<p>I've been listening to your podcast for a bit now.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:46</time>
<p>Currently I'm sitting, drinking coffee and reading.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
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<p>You never forget your first.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
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<p>It's a book about gw.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
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<p>Anyway, it got me thinking the book references that many of Washington's</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
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<p>letters were never found or saved.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
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<p>My question is, when did preserving presidential PA</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
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<p>papers become an official act?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
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<p>So I know, Jen, you actually already knew something a little bit about</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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<p>this.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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<p>So I knew I had worked at the James Garfield house.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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<p>I had done an internship there.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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<p>and basically inventoried all of their, not artifacts, but all of their</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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<p>artifact holding material, everything that it encloses the artifacts.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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<p>I inventoried all of that for the National Park Service.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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<p>The James Garfield house in Mentor Ohio is considered the first presidential</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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<p>library because his wife Lucretia after he's assassinated, thought people</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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<p>might want to read his paper someday.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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<p>People might want to read what he wrote.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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<p>People might want to read his letters, his journal.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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<p>So I'm going to save everything.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:02:50</time>
<p>Now, that wasn't official.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:02:52</time>
<p>She did it because she just had some forethought.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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<p>So Tina George.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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<p>Washington's papers were destroyed.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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<p>And.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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<p>Purposely.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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<p>So what happened with George Washington is before, and I'll get to the date,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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<p>it is really in the 1970s, before the 1970s presidential papers and vice</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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<p>presidential papers belong to the person.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:03:13</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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<p>Belong to that person, the president or vice president, and they could take</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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<p>them home and they can disseminate them.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:03:19</time>
<p>How they decided, and with George Washington, he had planned.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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<p>To build like a library, like a vault with his papers.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:03:27</time>
<p>But unfortunately he died before he could do that, and he gives his his aid.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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<p>Get my papers in order, get my accounts in order.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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<p>Those are like his dying words on his deathbed, but never save my papers.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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<p>Now, his papers were given to some people at the time who wanted to write</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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<p>a Washington biography and they kept them and used them for biography,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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<p>but then they just stored them and.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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<p>There is one letter that said I had Washington's papers, but they've</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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<p>become so damp and overcome by rats.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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<p>Wow.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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<p>So you can imagine some George Washington's papers were just destroyed</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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<p>from someone just being careless and storing his papers and not realizing</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:08</time>
<p>that they would be of importance.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:10</time>
<p>Now you do get Martha Washington destroyed a lot of letters.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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<p>Arthur Lincoln's son, Robert Todd Lincoln destroys his father's letters.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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<p>Arthur's son will destroy his letters.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:22</time>
<p>Harding's wife destroys his letters, she says, cuz she doesn't want anything.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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<p>Embarrassing remembered about him.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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<p>I will say a lot of people destroyed letters at this time, and I talk</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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<p>about this a lot with Jane Austin and her sister destroying her letters is</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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<p>because correspondence is very personal.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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<p>So</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
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<p>was it.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
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<p>Like pillow talk type stuff.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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<p>It's not really pillow, it's more like health talk.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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<p>Oh.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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<p>Because, yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:49</time>
<p>It's the time where people are getting sick pretty consistently.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:52</time>
<p>So how often are you going to the bathroom?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:55</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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<p>Things like that.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:56</time>
<p>What's it like?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:57</time>
<p>What's, its consistency.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:58</time>
<p>Those are, and it's very personal and, people like, like</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:02</time>
<p>phlegm kind of type because.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:05</time>
<p>Sickness is a way of life then.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:07</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:07</time>
<p>And overcoming sickness is a way of life.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:09</time>
<p>And people don't want those kind of personal affairs Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:13</time>
<p>To be brought into the public.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:05:15</time>
<p>So when did like people really start saving more intentionally?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:05:19</time>
<p>Or did it start with Garfield then became like official policy and law later.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:23</time>
<p>It really starts with Garfield in 1939.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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<p>Our f d.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:28</time>
<p>Donates his papers and books for an official library, Uhhuh , and that's</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:33</time>
<p>when the official library system, presidential system really starts.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:39</time>
<p>Presidents can still destroy their papers.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:41</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:41</time>
<p>So if you don't like something you wrote or someone wrote or a correspondence that</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:45</time>
<p>was a little, you could just burn it.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:47</time>
<p>But it's not really, and this is really interesting.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:49</time>
<p>It's not until the Presidential Records Act of 1978 that those official records of</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:56</time>
<p>every president and vice president are the property of the United States of America.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:59</time>
<p>You can no longer destroy them.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:01</time>
<p>And this was brought on because Nixon.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:04</time>
<p>Sought to destroy his records relating to his indiscretion.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:10</time>
<p>Sure.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:10</time>
<p>And and everything he had about resigning in 1974.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:14</time>
<p>So he tried to destroy all of that the official records of it, and to stop</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:18</time>
<p>the national archives to stop him.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:21</time>
<p>Past this act.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:21</time>
<p>It really fell under the Reagan administration.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:24</time>
<p>All of his papers were now official records of the United States government.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:28</time>
<p>They did go back and retroactively get Nixon's papers, but this is</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:32</time>
<p>when it now becomes an issue.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:34</time>
<p>And even today we're getting into like President Trump's papers</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:38</time>
<p>and Vice President Pence's papers and President Biden's papers.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:43</time>
<p>People are taking these things home.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:45</time>
<p>People are putting them in storage and.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:47</time>
<p>They don't belong to them personally.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:49</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:50</time>
<p>And that goes for everybody who's a president or vice president.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:52</time>
<p>They all get to go to the national archives and the archive can decide,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:57</time>
<p>okay what is important and not</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:06:58</time>
<p>important.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:06:59</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:06:59</time>
<p>No and I just really appreciated, Tina, it's an interesting</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:02</time>
<p>question submitting the question.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:04</time>
<p>That was a great question.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:05</time>
<p>So thank you so much, Tina for anybody else that subscribes to</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:08</time>
<p>the hashtag historic newsletter at the at history newsletter.com.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:12</time>
<p>We have another monthly one coming up here in the next couple weeks.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:16</time>
<p>I've got some articles I'm putting together.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:18</time>
<p>So there should be interesting stuff.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:19</time>
<p>So if you're ever curious, we've got podcast recommendations,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:21</time>
<p>video recommendations.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:22</time>
<p>, things like that.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:22</time>
<p>. But Tina, that was a great question.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:24</time>
<p>Great question.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:24</time>
<p>Thank</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:24</time>
<p>you so much,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:28</time>
<p>.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:31</time>
<p>, we're obviously, we're talking about the video.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:33</time>
<p>Yes.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:33</time>
<p>So video that posted yesterday was about Rose Greenhow she's a</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:37</time>
<p>Confederate spy during the Civil War.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:39</time>
<p>During the war.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:39</time>
<p>So tell us a little bit about the background of Rose Greenhow</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:42</time>
<p>okay.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:42</time>
<p>So we have Rose O'Neil Green.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:44</time>
<p>How, and O'Neil is important because this is her background</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:48</time>
<p>and to learn more about her.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:49</time>
<p>She is born, they, I'm not sure, eighteen thirteen, eighteen fourteen</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:53</time>
<p>in a small rural farm in Maryland.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:56</time>
<p>It's a tobacco farm, and her family is a they produce tobacco.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:01</time>
<p>They have enslaved people who work the tobacco farm.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:05</time>
<p>So of course they're a proponent of enslavement.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:08</time>
<p>And then when she's about 13, 14 years old, her father is murdered.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:13</time>
<p>And when he's murdered, he leaves behind a lot of debt and.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:20</time>
<p>The children have to be disseminated to members of the family because</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:24</time>
<p>his her mother the widow can't take care of all these children.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:28</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:28</time>
<p>And Rose O'Neill goes to an aunt in Washington, DC at 13, 14 years old.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:33</time>
<p>Her aunt runs a boarding house in Washington, dc</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:36</time>
<p>which is a very common thing.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:39</time>
<p>Mary Surat is running a boarding house in Washington DC so they have</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:43</time>
<p>these boarding houses at the time.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:45</time>
<p>It's a it's what women did if they were widowed or single.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:49</time>
<p>It was a very acceptable job for women at that age and level.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:54</time>
<p>And because a lot of people are in and out of DC having.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:59</time>
<p>Government meetings or official meetings, a boarding house is a great business</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:03</time>
<p>because people aren't really buying</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:06</time>
<p>property there.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:06</time>
<p>And I thought it was interesting cuz we were trying to, we were trying to find out</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:10</time>
<p>when we were putting the video together.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:12</time>
<p>Exactly where this boarding house might have been, or, later on</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:17</time>
<p>the, like some places got turned into prisons or in Civil War.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:20</time>
<p>And this, that, and the other.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:21</time>
<p>. So we were trying to search out where these things were, but we found out</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:23</time>
<p>there was like 80 different boarding houses in the Washington DC area.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:27</time>
<p>And you, if you know back then, like DC it's still small even for</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:31</time>
<p>that, that time period.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:32</time>
<p>Sure.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:32</time>
<p>So when you think about it, people who.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:36</time>
<p>Representing government or in the government didn't do</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:39</time>
<p>what they do today, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:40</time>
<p>They don't have two houses, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:42</time>
<p>They don't have a house where you live and a house in DC They had a house</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:46</time>
<p>where they lived and they came to DC to do their job, to do their meetings,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:50</time>
<p>and they stayed at a boarding house.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:51</time>
<p>So the boarding houses were very common and they were or hotels.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:55</time>
<p>The Willard is a big hotel in DC that is known.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:59</time>
<p>Famous people staying there.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:00</time>
<p>And so that's what people did.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:02</time>
<p>They didn't really own homes in DC and.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:06</time>
<p>So her, so Rose O'Neill goes to live in this boarding house, and</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:10</time>
<p>it's a congressional boarding house.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:11</time>
<p>So it's a, it's clientele is government.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:15</time>
<p>Higher, higher end people.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:16</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:17</time>
<p>And,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:10:17</time>
<p>and I think too, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:10:19</time>
<p>So if Rose was the daughter of, her father before he got was a property owner.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:10:23</time>
<p>Sure.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:10:23</time>
<p>So she was probably decently educated, decently</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:26</time>
<p>educated.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:26</time>
<p>So lower class, but not the lowest class.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:30</time>
<p>Yes.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:30</time>
<p>. So this is how she gets first introduced to this new level of society, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:35</time>
<p>And so it's in her aunt's boarding house that she's starting to</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:39</time>
<p>meet congressional people.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:40</time>
<p>And this is how she meets Dr.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:42</time>
<p>Greenhow and Dr.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:44</time>
<p>Greenhow is.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:47</time>
<p>He's a federal librarian.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:49</time>
<p>He has a medical degree, he has a law degree, and.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:54</time>
<p>hit it off and they started dating</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:10:56</time>
<p>And she was actually, we didn't, this didn't make it into the video,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:00</time>
<p>but she was actually introduced to him.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:02</time>
<p>Met him through the, the social circles, through what's her face?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:04</time>
<p>Dolly Madison.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:05</time>
<p>Dolly</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:05</time>
<p>Madison.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:06</time>
<p>Yes.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:06</time>
<p>So she's, yes.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:07</time>
<p>Moving in those circles, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:09</time>
<p>She's moving in the Madison Circle.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:10</time>
<p>Former p.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:11</time>
<p>Madison circle Dolly is of course older at the time, so she meets Dr.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:16</time>
<p>Greenhow, and when you think about it, Greenhow's marrying</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:19</time>
<p>kind of below his status.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:21</time>
<p>, but he must but</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:23</time>
<p>her, if I remember right now, historical USA was with us on this video.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:27</time>
<p>, but I if it was either you or her that said that Rose's sister actually married</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:32</time>
<p>like a congressman or, or someone related to some well-known politician type.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:36</time>
<p>Yes.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:36</time>
<p>Yes.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:36</time>
<p>And.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:37</time>
<p>, she was, the doctor was marrying below, but he was also marrying the</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:40</time>
<p>sister of someone who just got married to someone a little bit more famous.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:44</time>
<p>Yes.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:44</time>
<p>So there's that balance</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:45</time>
<p>there that's balances.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:46</time>
<p>They're moving up.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:47</time>
<p>You could say that they're they're,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:49</time>
<p>and that's how families did it back then.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:51</time>
<p>Sure.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:51</time>
<p>They like, Hey, I'm gonna educate my daughter as best as I can.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:54</time>
<p>I'm gonna send her somewhere.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:55</time>
<p>And if she gets in high society circles and start, mar starts marrying up.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:58</time>
<p>That's how families</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:59</time>
<p>raised their status.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:00</time>
<p>Absolutely.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:01</time>
<p>And there were people who definitely sought that out.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:03</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:04</time>
<p>And that, so she marries Dr.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:06</time>
<p>Greenhow.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:07</time>
<p>They have, I think it's five, they have four children.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:10</time>
<p>He goes out west, she goes out west with him.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:13</time>
<p>Before she has her fourth child, she comes back to DC to have her fourth child.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:17</time>
<p>He stays behind and he actually dies.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:19</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:20</time>
<p>He falls off like an elevated.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:22</time>
<p>Sidewalk and is killed.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:24</time>
<p>This was in DC or out west?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:25</time>
<p>No, out</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:26</time>
<p>west.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:26</time>
<p>Okay.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:26</time>
<p>California West</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:27</time>
<p>or out?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:27</time>
<p>California west.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:28</time>
<p>Oh, wow.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:29</time>
<p>And so she becomes a widow with a pension and moving in these high.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:36</time>
<p>Echelon political circles, and this is about the onset of the Civil War.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:43</time>
<p>We got Buchanan.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:44</time>
<p>We got Davis.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:45</time>
<p>She believes in her southern allegiances.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:48</time>
<p>Yep.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:48</time>
<p>When the Civil War does break out, she is already embedded.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:54</time>
<p>And she doesn't leave DC cuz she's only her when she moves back.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:59</time>
<p>To have her child and her husband stays out west.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:02</time>
<p>She buys that boarding house four blocks to the north of dc.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:06</time>
<p>Okay.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:06</time>
<p>So she didn't take</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:07</time>
<p>over the one from her aunt, she</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:09</time>
<p>gets a new one?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:09</time>
<p>No, she gets her own.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:10</time>
<p>Okay.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:10</time>
<p>And that home is now where the Hayes Adams hotel is.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:15</time>
<p>But if you see our video, it's such a prominent spot in Washington DC</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:20</time>
<p>It's like you could literally, maybe.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:22</time>
<p>Patrick Mahomes could throw a football from that hotel</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:25</time>
<p>to the White House.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:26</time>
<p>I know.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:27</time>
<p>And if you can imagine, 1860 without Lafayette Square,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:31</time>
<p>without the White House lawn.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:33</time>
<p>Without, yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:34</time>
<p>The gate.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:35</time>
<p>You could walk from there in 10 minutes.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:38</time>
<p>It's not even 10</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:39</time>
<p>minutes, five minutes.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:39</time>
<p>It's literally a.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:40</time>
<p>Stones throw.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:41</time>
<p>So that's one of the fun things.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:42</time>
<p>I</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:42</time>
<p>mean, you could see, you could say, you could say, I wanna see you</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:44</time>
<p>walk to the White House and wave to me when you get to the porch.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:46</time>
<p>So I know you made it</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:48</time>
<p>. , Scott: That's literally, as</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:49</time>
<p>Be like, Hey go take this to the president.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:51</time>
<p>I</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:51</time>
<p>made him some cookies.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:52</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:52</time>
<p>So that's how close she is to the White House.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:55</time>
<p>So again, people who are meeting with Lincoln and having discussions,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:59</time>
<p>and you got Sea Word's House is right beside Lafayette Square.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:03</time>
<p>So you have a block away, like a block away.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:05</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:05</time>
<p>He's Secretary of State.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:06</time>
<p>So you have all of these people in close proximity.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:11</time>
<p>So when war breaks out and she's already running in these circles,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:15</time>
<p>she's able to start to gather information and gather secrets</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:20</time>
<p>And Lisa had mentioned that she was actually kind a</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:23</time>
<p>big fan of Jefferson Davis.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:25</time>
<p>Oh, yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:25</time>
<p>She</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:25</time>
<p>loved</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:26</time>
<p>Jefferson Davis.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:27</time>
<p>And Lisa had said that in, in her research, That it was, she</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:31</time>
<p>started some of this kind of spy or getting information right.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:35</time>
<p>They probably didn't call it spying right up front.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:36</time>
<p>, Hey, go spy for me.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:37</time>
<p>It's like, like, Hey, how many troops do they have?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:39</time>
<p>Do they talk about that in your boarding house?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:40</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:41</time>
<p>At the behest of Jefferson Davis.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:42</time>
<p>Jefferson</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:42</time>
<p>Davis had asked her to do it.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:44</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:44</time>
<p>And she felt very loyal to him.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:45</time>
<p>She loved him.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:46</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:46</time>
<p>She really had like.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:47</time>
<p>When she, and I'll talk about when she goes to the prison.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:50</time>
<p>He, she is iconic to her.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:52</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:52</time>
<p>And she believes in him and she believes in, like I said, the southern allegiance</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:56</time>
<p>and what they're fighting for and what they believe in and state's rights.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:59</time>
<p>She she's very bought into that.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:01</time>
<p>So having the boarding house and having these.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:05</time>
<p>Single men or un single men, but men of higher status come visit her.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:10</time>
<p>She's able to get information and one of those men is of</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:12</time>
<p>course, general Irving McDowell.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:14</time>
<p>He's in charge of the Union Army in the beginning of the Civil War.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:19</time>
<p>Yep.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:19</time>
<p>And he comes and visits her and asks, Very undermined questions like, I</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:26</time>
<p>see you're getting troops ready.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:27</time>
<p>How many troops should I pray for?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:29</time>
<p>Should I pray for 3000 troops?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:31</time>
<p>And of course, he wants to boast.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:33</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:33</time>
<p>So he is no more like 30,000 troops.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:35</time>
<p>And she's oh.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:36</time>
<p>And then she's able to get that information back to Beauregard.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:40</time>
<p>Who is gonna be in charge of the Confederate army On the other</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:42</time>
<p>side, it's gonna be 30,000 troops.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:45</time>
<p>They're thinking of a place south of Manassas and in the July timeframe,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:50</time>
<p>yeah, they're gonna march the troops.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:51</time>
<p>They think it's gonna be a quick and easy decisive battle.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:54</time>
<p>The railroad line is there and that's why they're gonna go there.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:58</time>
<p>And so he's able to, Enough Confederates there to meet that level of union troops,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:07</time>
<p>30,000 to put up a good defense, to put up a good fight, to actually push them</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:12</time>
<p>back and it's enough to scare them.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:15</time>
<p>That it's not gonna be easy.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:16</time>
<p>And that's why she's so regarded.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:18</time>
<p>She gets a lot of credit.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:19</time>
<p>Beauregard gives her credit.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:21</time>
<p>She gets a lot of credit.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:22</time>
<p>Th this is probably her biggest claim to fame.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:23</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:24</time>
<p>First Battle Bull run.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:25</time>
<p>But she gets a lot of credit for this because of all the information</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:28</time>
<p>she was able to get to Beauregard and he was able to use it.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:32</time>
<p>And then the Confederates were able to put up a good defense.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:35</time>
<p>And this really is the.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:38</time>
<p>When Lincoln realizes, and that could be a quick war.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:41</time>
<p>He also realizes that McDowell is an incompetent leader.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:44</time>
<p>So you're gonna get a lot of us and you're gonna get a lot of stuff</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:46</time>
<p>that comes out of this battle.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:48</time>
<p>Next week we'll be bull run.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:49</time>
<p>We'll talk about the things that come out of this.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:50</time>
<p>But you're gonna get the union very much falling back on reputation.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:55</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:55</time>
<p>You're gonna lose a lot of reputation and you're gonna get the south</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:58</time>
<p>really exploding their reputation and you're gonna get some famous.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:02</time>
<p>Names and monikers that are gonna come outta the first Battle of Bull Run.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:05</time>
<p>So you're gonna see the morale kind of switch a little.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:09</time>
<p>Yep.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:09</time>
<p>It's kinda like a big rally for,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:10</time>
<p>for the south, big rally for the south.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:12</time>
<p>And it's a big hardship for the</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:14</time>
<p>union.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:16</time>
<p>One of the reasons that we did this video this month, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:20</time>
<p>Was obviously Women's History Month, but also ties into our video from</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:24</time>
<p>last week, which was, A Union.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:26</time>
<p>, civil War spy, but also another female.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:28</time>
<p>Yes.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:28</time>
<p>And so we talk a little bit about in this video, how no one really</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:33</time>
<p>suspected Rose Greenhow because she</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:36</time>
<p>was a woman.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:37</time>
<p>Because she was a woman and, yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:38</time>
<p>And that so the same way that the Union female spy is operating</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:43</time>
<p>under this pretense that women.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:47</time>
<p>Are not at the level to be privy to this information.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:50</time>
<p>They don't understand this information.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:52</time>
<p>It's just too much for them to comprehend war, and they, so</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:56</time>
<p>they can slide under the radar.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:57</time>
<p>Same thing.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:58</time>
<p>Rose Greenhow using the same thing to herd advantage.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:00</time>
<p>I'm a southern bell.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:01</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:02</time>
<p>All I care about is entertaining.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:04</time>
<p>I'm not interested in your war talk, but I'll listen to it because that's what</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:07</time>
<p>you seem to wanna talk about when really that's all she really wants to talk about.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:11</time>
<p>Yep.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:11</time>
<p>But she'll pretend like it's not.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:14</time>
<p>And I wanted to do women focused Cuz of Women's History Month.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:18</time>
<p>And I wanted to do a union spy who was pivotal in the Battle of the Ironclads</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:23</time>
<p>and then a Confederate spy who's pivotal in the first Battle bull run.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:27</time>
<p>And they both happen to</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:28</time>
<p>be women.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:29</time>
<p>So we go to bull run.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:30</time>
<p>And Do that kind through the lens of of women, of the women that serve there.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:33</time>
<p>, which is, I think, different.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:34</time>
<p>But again, one of the things I just, it just was so interesting</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:37</time>
<p>to me that last week's video.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:38</time>
<p>In this week, video doesn't matter what side of the union, what side of</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:41</time>
<p>the war you were on, whether you were black or white because you were a woman.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:45</time>
<p>people just didn't assume that you weren't</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:47</time>
<p>doing anything.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:47</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:47</time>
<p>They now, they just didn't assume you were at that level</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:51</time>
<p>of intelligence or importance.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:53</time>
<p>Yes.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:53</time>
<p>Like you were good enough to wash dishes.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:56</time>
<p>You were definitely good enough to men wounds.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:59</time>
<p>Good enough to stitch clothes and, but you're not good.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:02</time>
<p>Have to know anything about strategic, maneuvers and</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:05</time>
<p>what, military Tactics, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:19:07</time>
<p>That's not now.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:19:08</time>
<p>Now there was one person, yeah, , that suspect, that suspected rose Greenhow.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:19:12</time>
<p>And this name's actually pretty well known.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:16</time>
<p>Yes.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:17</time>
<p>So what happens is, People are like he knew Bogar knew.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:21</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:22</time>
<p>And the union realizes that he knew.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:24</time>
<p>And so it's actually s seaward seaward who first suspects</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:28</time>
<p>because he sees so many people.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:29</time>
<p>Cuz again, he could probably see her porch from his porch.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:32</time>
<p>Sure.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:32</time>
<p>He's just looking across the, he's probably looking across the</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:34</time>
<p>way going, look at all the union</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:19:35</time>
<p>guys.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:19:36</time>
<p>Just went in there.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:19:37</time>
<p>And</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:37</time>
<p>And she loves Jefferson Davis.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:38</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:38</time>
<p>And he buy, and so he's.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:40</time>
<p>Pinkerton.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:41</time>
<p>Yeah, the, like</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:42</time>
<p>The Allen Pinkerton.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:43</time>
<p>The Allen Pinkerton of the Pinkerton detective agency because they're actually</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:47</time>
<p>working at the time for President Lincoln.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:49</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:50</time>
<p>And they're actually working intel for President Lincoln.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:52</time>
<p>So he hires him.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:53</time>
<p>He goes, why don't you watch her house?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:55</time>
<p>So in August so first Battle Bull Run happens in July.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:59</time>
<p>In August.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:00</time>
<p>Pinkerton's hired to look at Rose Greenhow House again.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:03</time>
<p>Four blocks.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:05</time>
<p>From the White House,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:05</time>
<p>and he's literally just like peeking in the windows.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:07</time>
<p>He's peeking, like he's standing on someone's shoulders</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:11</time>
<p>looking in the windows, like really?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:12</time>
<p>If you're walking by and you're like, look at them.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:15</time>
<p>That guy doing over there, shoulders looking, and he sees her.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:20</time>
<p>Entertaining union soldiers.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:22</time>
<p>He sees her pulling out maps with union soldiers and they're pointing</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:26</time>
<p>at things and you see her again.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:28</time>
<p>She's very good at pretending like she doesn't care.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:31</time>
<p>Oh my gosh, I'm just entertaining you and listening to what you have to say.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:35</time>
<p>But really, that's all she cares about cuz that's, those are the</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:37</time>
<p>things she will bring is ciphered maps and ciphered intelligence.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:42</time>
<p>Pinkerton sees that and he knows, and I say that Pinkerton is really like the</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:48</time>
<p>true feminist because he believes that Ro Rore Rose Greenhow capable of this, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:54</time>
<p>Like he's giving her a lot of agency that.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:57</time>
<p>Other men at the time probably would not, or are not basically</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:00</time>
<p>nobody else except Seaward who had gotten into some arguments</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:02</time>
<p>with her in the past and kinda lived across the street from her,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:05</time>
<p>essentially.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:05</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:06</time>
<p>And so Pinkerton is giving her a lot of credit, which is</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:10</time>
<p>totally due because she did it.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:12</time>
<p>And so he tries to accost her on the street.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:15</time>
<p>Right after this happens, and again, you're having this scenario of a Southern.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:19</time>
<p>Elite woman being accosted on the street by a working class gentleman.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:23</time>
<p>So Pink Pinkerton gets arrested?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:25</time>
<p>Yeah, because people go like, why are you harassing this woman?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:29</time>
<p>Why are you looking in her windows?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:30</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:30</time>
<p>Why Young men are on the street.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:31</time>
<p>So he gets arrested.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:33</time>
<p>Take it to prison.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:33</time>
<p>And when he's questioned, he says, I'm here for a bigger cause.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:36</time>
<p>I'm here for a bigger purpose.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:38</time>
<p>And so then he's allowed to go to Rose Greenhow home.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:42</time>
<p>And when he searches her home, he finds the ciphers right and the maps.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:46</time>
<p>And she gets arrested.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:47</time>
<p>And she gets arrested and she's put on house, arrested first in her</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:50</time>
<p>home, which she doesn't stop spying.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:53</time>
<p>. Scott: She keeps getting information.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:54</time>
<p>This is what I thought was so interesting for her.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:57</time>
<p>She believes in her side of the cause so deeply that she continues to get</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:01</time>
<p>information through her network.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:03</time>
<p>She had built up like network of 48</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:05</time>
<p>women, 40 to 50 women and two men.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:07</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:07</time>
<p>And she uses like colored curtains and she uses colored handkerchiefs and</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:11</time>
<p>candles in the windows and candles.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:12</time>
<p>In the windows.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:13</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:13</time>
<p>And p they can't stop her, so they're like, okay, we're gonna put you in prison.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:18</time>
<p>And she.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:19</time>
<p>Okay, do it.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:20</time>
<p>And so she's taken to the old Capitol prison in January of 1862.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:25</time>
<p>So things are moving relatively quickly when you think about it.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:27</time>
<p>The old Capitol Prison is located directly behind the US Capitol.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:32</time>
<p>It's where the United States Supreme Court stands today.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:35</time>
<p>Right.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:35</time>
<p>But this was a prison in DC that used to hold con congressional</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:41</time>
<p>hearings and meetings and Rose Greenhow when she went there.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:45</time>
<p>She writes this whole biography of herself after then, I'll tell you when she writes</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:50</time>
<p>this, so you get a lot of this first source account of what happened from her.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:54</time>
<p>She sits in the prison and all she can think about is Jefferson Davis giving</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:57</time>
<p>a talk in one of the rooms and she hopes to see that room again because</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:01</time>
<p>that talk was so inspiring for her about him and so she can't even get</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:05</time>
<p>Jefferson Davis off the mind in prison.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:09</time>
<p>Now this prison is gonna hold.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:13</time>
<p>Confederate officers, it's gonna execute Confederate conspirators.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:17</time>
<p>This is where the Lincoln conspirators will eventually be</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:19</time>
<p>held before they are executed.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:22</time>
<p>So this prison is a pretty renowned prison in Washington DC and she's</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:27</time>
<p>held there from January of 1862 to May of 1862, so about four months.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:34</time>
<p>because she still doesn't stop.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:23:35</time>
<p>Yeah she's still getting messages</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:37</time>
<p>out.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:37</time>
<p>She still, she uses her daughter, like she's put in prison with her</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:40</time>
<p>eight year old daughter and she uses her daughter to get messages out.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:43</time>
<p>To pass messages.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:44</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:44</time>
<p>Her daughter's allowed to play in the middle of the grassy field, to</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:48</time>
<p>get some exercise and her daughter will pass messages to people because</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:52</time>
<p>sympathizers and So eventually they're not gonna execute her.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:55</time>
<p>They don't know what to do with it.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:57</time>
<p>This is the time why I say the federal government has not executed</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:00</time>
<p>a woman in history an American white woman in history yet.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:04</time>
<p>So they prison exchange her.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:09</time>
<p>So in May of 1862, she's exchanged for some union prisoners.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:13</time>
<p>She's exchanged to the south.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:15</time>
<p>She's told do not come.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:20</time>
<p>Stay on the Confederate side.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:22</time>
<p>So she's exchanged down to Richmond, Virginia and one of the first things</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:26</time>
<p>she does is meet with Jefferson Davis</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:29</time>
<p>. Scott: Yeah, of course.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:30</time>
<p>I, you think about it like this, she was like at the point of brainwashed.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:34</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:34</time>
<p>Like to, her loyalty was just so intense.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:36</time>
<p>And we've been to Davis's house.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:38</time>
<p>The Confederate White House.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:39</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:40</time>
<p>In Richmond.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:40</time>
<p>She probably met him there, probably.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:42</time>
<p>She probably, and honestly that's probably when she got most of</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:46</time>
<p>her, just like in-person recognition.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:49</time>
<p>Yes.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:49</time>
<p>She's, she was very revered.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:51</time>
<p>She's a heroin.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:52</time>
<p>She's a heroin of the South.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:53</time>
<p>. And then eventually she runs off to, so eventually</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:57</time>
<p>she goes to overseas, to Europe.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:58</time>
<p>Okay.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:59</time>
<p>And she goes to Europe to raise awareness for the Southern cause.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:02</time>
<p>And this is where she's going to.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:04</time>
<p>Her autobiography.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:06</time>
<p>Okay, this is where she's gonna write my firsthand account of how terrible the</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:10</time>
<p>North is and what they did to me, and.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:15</time>
<p>She's giving you basically how she spied and what she did.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:18</time>
<p>So it's very, that's how we know the stuff she got across and how she did it.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:21</time>
<p>And she raises, she brings her daughter over with her.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:23</time>
<p>She raises a lot of funds.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:25</time>
<p>She raises $2,000 in gold and she comes back in August of 1860.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:30</time>
<p>Four.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:31</time>
<p>She comes back and she's on the HMS Condor, which is</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:35</time>
<p>a British blockade runner.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:37</time>
<p>So a fast ship when you think about it.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:38</time>
<p>And she has $2,000 in gold sewn into her dress to hide the gold,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:44</time>
<p>get it back to the south, and the.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:49</time>
<p>it's October 1st, the condor is coming into Wilmington, North</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:54</time>
<p>Carolina, and it gets grounded.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:57</time>
<p>It runs a ground.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:57</time>
<p>The captain thinks he sees union ships, so he tries to,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:01</time>
<p>be covert and he runs a ground.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:03</time>
<p>And so Rose is if the, if they're coming, I wanna get off the ship, can I get a row?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:08</time>
<p>And so she gets on a rowboat and because she's carrying all this</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:11</time>
<p>gold and, it's, makes it too heavy.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:13</time>
<p>Too heavy slim.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:14</time>
<p>And the ship sinks and she is pulled down with it because of the gold.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:18</time>
<p>And she drowns her body's found four days later.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:21</time>
<p>And then she is given a full military decorated funeral That's</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:26</time>
<p>wild in Wilmington, North Carolina.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:28</time>
<p>They drape the Confederate flag across her coffin.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:31</time>
<p>It is full regal.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:33</time>
<p>And.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:35</time>
<p>You can see her grave today, and it still has a plaque there.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:38</time>
<p>And it's decorated.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:40</time>
<p>Her daughter will stay in France.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:41</time>
<p>She didn't bring her daughter with her.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:42</time>
<p>She didn't wanna bring her daughter back in the middle of</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:44</time>
<p>a war, but That is her legacy.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:47</time>
<p>She's lived on in the South as this martyr, this heroin,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:53</time>
<p>this believer of a cause.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:54</time>
<p>Again, her big success was Bullen.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:56</time>
<p>She never really gets any secret.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:58</time>
<p>She really doesn't get the backing, the financial backing that she was</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:01</time>
<p>hoping to get from the, from England.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:05</time>
<p>People remember her for Bull Run.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:07</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:07</time>
<p>Another fun one for us to explore one, because we just got to walk around</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:11</time>
<p>Washington DC for the day because</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:13</time>
<p>it's a huge walk.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:14</time>
<p>It's from the Capitol Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:16</time>
<p>To the</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:17</time>
<p>Supreme Court.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:17</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:17</time>
<p>It was a hike.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:18</time>
<p>. And we got to hang out with Lisa.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:19</time>
<p>Yes.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:19</time>
<p>Which is really fun.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:20</time>
<p>That was really cool.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:21</time>
<p>If you guys are curious, go check her channel out at Historical usa.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:25</time>
<p>But that was a blast.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:29</time>
<p>One of the things that I was thinking about was, bravery.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:31</time>
<p>It comes in all shapes and sizes.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:34</time>
<p>And during the Civil War, many didn't think that bravery</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:38</time>
<p>also came in all genders.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:41</time>
<p>Rose Greenhow may have been fighting for the wrong side of the Civil</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:44</time>
<p>War, but no one will question that.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:46</time>
<p>She had a direct impact on various aspects of the war.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:49</time>
<p>Just look at what happened at Manasas.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:52</time>
<p>Yes, it took Alan Pinkerton.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:55</time>
<p>Himself giving her credit to be suspicious enough to investigate this</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:59</time>
<p>Civil War, Confederate spy, someone who is now viewed as a traitor to</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:28:04</time>
<p>the north, but a heroin to the south.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:28:08</time>
<p>So thank you for listening to the Talk with History podcast,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:28:10</time>
<p>and please reach out to us at our website, talk with history.com.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:28:13</time>
<p>But more importantly, if you know someone that might enjoy this</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:28:15</time>
<p>podcast, please share it with them, especially if you think today's</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:28:18</time>
<p>topic would interest a friend.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:28:20</time>
<p>We rely on you, our community to grow, and we appreciate y'all every day.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:28:25</time>
<p>We'll talk to you next time.</p>
<p></p>
<p></p>