John Kiriakou Interview | The Navy Pilot Life & Post-9/11 Service

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<p>Welcome to Talk With History.</p>
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<p>I'm your host Scott, and today my wife and historian Jenn comes to you as a</p>
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<p>guest on another podcast, Jenn recently guested on the Deep Focus Podcast</p>
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<p>with host and former CIA Agent John Kiriakou john was actually just on the</p>
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<p>Joe Rogan podcast to talk about his career in the CIA, how he was the head</p>
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<p>of counter-terrorism in Pakistan after nine 11, and how he famously blew the</p>
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<p>whistle on the agency's torture program and became the first former CIA official</p>
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<p>to serve prison time related to the case.</p>
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<p>John Kiriakou a rapidly growing audience on YouTube, and he was gracious enough</p>
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<p>to have Jenn on as a guest to talk in depth about her military service,</p>
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<p>what it was like being one of the first female pilots in her helicopter</p>
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<p>squadron, and what it was like to fly in combat right after nine 11.</p>
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<p>We have the first part of that conversation for you here, and if you</p>
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<p>want to see the full interview, check out the first link in this episode's.</p>
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<p>Show notes.</p>
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<p>Hi, I am John Kiriakou and welcome back to Deep Focus.</p>
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<p>You know, it's not often that we have someone who is a bonafide hero.</p>
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<p>On the show, but we have such a person today, and not only is she a hero, at</p>
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<p>least in my estimation, not only does she have a wonderful story to tell about</p>
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<p>wartime and what it was like going into war in the immediate aftermath of nine 11.</p>
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<p>But she has a fascinating story about her post-military career.</p>
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<p>Jennnifer Bennie was a helicopter pilot.</p>
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<p>She had a great career, an important career, and, and a career in which</p>
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<p>she accomplished a great many things.</p>
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<p>We're gonna talk about that.</p>
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<p>But then after her military career, she decided to focus on history, the</p>
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<p>same kind of history that I like.</p>
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<p>So.</p>
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<p>I'm not gonna tell her story.</p>
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<p>I'm gonna let her tell her story.</p>
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<p>Jennnifer, welcome to the show.</p>
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<p>It's good to see you.</p>
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<p>Thank you for having me.</p>
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<p>It's good to see you too.</p>
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<p>So, I wanna talk first about your decision to join the military.</p>
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<p>Do you have a military tradition in your family or was this something you</p>
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<p>just decided was the right thing to do?</p>
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<p>My parents are both, uh, mil Air Force.</p>
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<p>Uh, they're Air Force Veterans.</p>
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<p>They're Air Force Security Police.</p>
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<p>I was born at, in Fayetteville, North Carolina.</p>
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<p>My parents was stationed at Pope, but I was born at Fort Bragg because the Army</p>
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<p>Hospital was the only hospital there.</p>
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<p>And uh, and it's interesting because my mom was one of the</p>
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<p>first female security police in.</p>
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<p>The Air Force, and she was the, actually the first one in Abdo, Italy.</p>
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<p>And, uh, she met my dad.</p>
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<p>My mom's from Queens, New York, uh, raised in Jackson Heights,</p>
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<p>went to PS 69, Bryant High School.</p>
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<p>My dad is a small town Pennsylvania boy from the outskirts of</p>
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<p>Pittsburgh, a big corn fed.</p>
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<p>You know, he, his claim to fame was his high school football team won the entire</p>
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<p>state championship for Pennsylvania.</p>
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<p>Right.</p>
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<p>What, what, what town was that?</p>
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<p>It's Houston, Pennsylvania.</p>
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<p>It's south of Pittsburgh.</p>
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<p>I actually went to the same high school, 'cause when my father</p>
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<p>got out of the military, we moved back to be close to family.</p>
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<p>I graduated with 69 people.</p>
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<p>That's how big this high school is, and they won the entire state</p>
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<p>championship for Pennsylvania.</p>
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<p>So that was his big claim.</p>
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<p>But he's a big guy.</p>
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<p>Six three.</p>
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<p>Two 40 big guy, a lineman, and so he meets my mother in, in Italy.</p>
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<p>Doesn't think women should be in the military, thinks that they</p>
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<p>make everyone weaker, that he, they have to watch out for the women.</p>
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<p>My mom stood up, Queens, New York, said, I you, if you have a problem</p>
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<p>with that, then you shouldn't be here because I'm doing my job.</p>
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<p>You need to do yours, not focus on me.</p>
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<p>And they got married three months later.</p>
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<p>So.</p>
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<p>Those are my parents, right?</p>
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<p>And so when my mom was in, they from Aviano, they got stationed at,</p>
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<p>uh, at Pope and my mom was thinking of getting outta the military.</p>
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<p>She had just had, she had me, she had my brother 18 months later, and</p>
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<p>a Genor was walking around My mother again, kind of poster child for.</p>
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<p>Women in the, in the military at the time, and so much so that she was</p>
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<p>testing out the new maternity uniforms.</p>
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<p>They didn't even have them at the time for the military.</p>
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<p>And a general had asked her, what could I do?</p>
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<p>Because she was like, I'm thinking of getting out.</p>
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<p>I just had kids.</p>
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<p>And he goes, what could I do to make you stay in the military?</p>
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<p>And she goes, if I had water to Hawaii.</p>
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<p>I'd stay in.</p>
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<p>So three months later, my mom had orders to Bellows Air Force Base in</p>
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<p>Hawaii, which is the recreational base.</p>
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<p>If you know anything about it, it's all cabins.</p>
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<p>Obama would stay there.</p>
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<p>They have a presidential cabin there.</p>
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<p>Uh, and so my father also got orders to bellows, uh, Magnum PI</p>
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<p>would film on Bellows while, while.</p>
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<p>Uh, it was there because the, the public couldn't come on.</p>
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<p>My mom was a personal bodyguard for Tom Selleck, right?</p>
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<p>So I'm a little kid not knowing anything, right.</p>
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<p>And I'm like, oh, Tom, you know, I thought his name was fabric.</p>
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<p>I mean a magnum.</p>
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<p>And he would carry me around.</p>
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<p>But it's this time we moved, we got orders after that to Wyoming and I</p>
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<p>saw the Thunderbirds for the first time and I said, I'm gonna do that.</p>
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<p>I'm gonna fly jets and.</p>
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<p>If you know anything about, my maiden name was Mitchell, so if you</p>
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<p>know anything about Top Gun, right?</p>
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<p>I, I was the real Lieutenant Mitchell Na, Naval Aviator, Lieutenant Mitchell.</p>
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<p>So my, my, I was never married in the military, so my name</p>
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<p>the entire time was Mitchell.</p>
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<p>And so Jet, jet, jet Jets, I'm gonna go Air Force.</p>
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<p>So my father gets out of the military in Wyoming.</p>
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<p>We move back to Pittsburgh.</p>
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<p>I go for the Navy scholarship.</p>
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<p>I, I go for the air, the military scholarship to Penn State.</p>
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<p>And I went to the Air Force first and the Air Force said, you have to major in math.</p>
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<p>We love you, we think you're great, but you have to major in math.</p>
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<p>And I was like, uh, I'm not sure if I want math.</p>
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<p>One floor up was the Navy.</p>
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<p>And I said, what, what can you guys offer?</p>
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<p>And they said, we love you.</p>
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<p>We would love for you to be a pilot.</p>
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<p>Uh, you made what you want.</p>
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<p>And I said, I'm gonna go Navy.</p>
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<p>So that's why I completely changed to Navy.</p>
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<p>Still jets, though.</p>
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<p>Still wanted to fly jets.</p>
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<p>So between your junior and senior year of ROTC, I had a full</p>
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<p>scholarship to Penn State, R-O-T-C-I.</p>
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<p>They send you to an aircraft carrier to see what you would wanna do</p>
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<p>in the, in the military, right.</p>
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<p>I got sent to the Eisenhower in the Mediterranean.</p>
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<p>Wow.</p>
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<p>1998. I've, I've</p>
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<p>Eisenhower, it's a city on the water.</p>
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<p>Yes, and it was, I flew into nice, like it's my first time going to Europe.</p>
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<p>I flew into Nice, I met the ship in in Cannes, right?</p>
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<p>I saw where the CANS film festival was.</p>
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<p>I'm like, this is amazing.</p>
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<p>And met the ship and they attached me to the helicopter Squadron because.</p>
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<p>They had a female pilot and they wanted me to interact with a female pilot.</p>
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<p>I'm like, helicopters.</p>
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<p>I didn't even know the Navy had helicopters.</p>
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<p>I thought that was Army.</p>
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<p>And on an aircraft carrier, the helicopter job is pretty much</p>
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<p>one of the most boring jobs.</p>
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<p>You're the first to launch, the last to land.</p>
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<p>You fly what they call starboard D, so it's a starboard, looks like a D.</p>
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<p>You fly in a circle on the starboard side of the ship and you're waiting.</p>
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<p>For someone to crash, right?</p>
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<p>You're the first.</p>
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<p>That's why their first one launched.</p>
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<p>So they can do all their air ops, and then you're the last one to land.</p>
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<p>So when all the air Ops are done, you land and you're just, you're</p>
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<p>airborne in case something happens.</p>
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<p>Right?</p>
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<p>I</p>
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<p>didn't know they did that.</p>
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<p>That's the first time I've ever heard that.</p>
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<p>Yes.</p>
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<p>And so I was like, oh, helicopters, whatever.</p>
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<p>I wanna fly in the F 14.</p>
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<p>So I had gotten all of my qualifications before I left.</p>
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<p>I, now I, I, we'll caveat about this.</p>
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<p>I'm a swimmer and I'm not just a swimmer.</p>
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<p>I'm a butterfly.</p>
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<p>So I have very strong arms, strong shoulders.</p>
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<p>So I had to do all the parachute stuff where they drag you through the pool</p>
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<p>and you have to unleash yourself.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:07:54</time>
<p>I had to do the dunkers, and I got all the qualifications too, if I was to get a hop.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:08:00</time>
<p>In a jet.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:08:01</time>
<p>I was ready to do that.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:08:02</time>
<p>I made sure I had all of it before I went out on this Midship and Cruise.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:08:07</time>
<p>This is 1998.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:08:09</time>
<p>No women and any of these Judd squadrons, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:08:12</time>
<p>Women had just been allowed into combat three years earlier.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:08:15</time>
<p>But it wasn't like, I tell people that it was like it was</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:08:17</time>
<p>all these women waiting, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:08:20</time>
<p>They, they allowed it, but there weren't women doing it.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:08:23</time>
<p>There were a couple women who had qualified, but they weren't</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:08:26</time>
<p>deployed or anything like that.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:08:28</time>
<p>And so I walk into, and this is the Jolly Rogers, so they're the</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:08:32</time>
<p>skull and the crossbones, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:08:34</time>
<p>And, uh, they, they took no midshipmen, usually midshipmen</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:08:38</time>
<p>get attached to a squadron.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:08:39</time>
<p>I was attached to the helo squadron.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:08:41</time>
<p>I think there was s threes that took another midshipman.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:08:45</time>
<p>Uh, I walk into this F 14 ready room.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:08:48</time>
<p>I sit right in the front row and if you any know anything about a</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:08:51</time>
<p>ready room on an aircraft carrier, the front row is CO xo, opso admin.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:08:57</time>
<p>It's all the high ranking office.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:08:58</time>
<p>I sit right in the front row.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:09:00</time>
<p>As the commanding officer is speaking at the podium and he looks at me</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:09:04</time>
<p>in very colorful language and tells me to get out of his ready room</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:09:08</time>
<p>and I say, no, I'm not leaving.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:09:10</time>
<p>I'm like, this is my dream and I wanna fly.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:09:12</time>
<p>I tell people, a lot of times my smart mouth either gets me something</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:09:16</time>
<p>pretty amazing or in a lot of trouble, and this was a moment, one of those</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:09:21</time>
<p>defining moments in my career.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:09:22</time>
<p>And he looked at me and he goes, in another California,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:09:26</time>
<p>where do you go to school?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:09:28</time>
<p>And I said, sir, I go to Penn State and he goes, big 10, you're flying.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:09:31</time>
<p>'cause he went to Indiana in the Big 10.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:09:35</time>
<p>And that moment he did that.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:09:38</time>
<p>Every guy in that squadron treated me fantastic.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:09:42</time>
<p>I was allowed to go into the, the Jolly Rogers.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:09:44</time>
<p>Anytime I wanted, they gave me their patches.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:09:47</time>
<p>I flew in an F 14 off a carrier, sat in the backseat like Goose.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:09:52</time>
<p>We the co flew at the same time in his jet, played the Indiana fight song.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:09:56</time>
<p>And I was, I was like, this is it.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:09:58</time>
<p>I'm gonna fly jets.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:09:59</time>
<p>We caught the trap on the way in.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:10:00</time>
<p>It was amazing, right.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:10:02</time>
<p>I, I, it was one of the greatest moments in my aviation career.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:10:07</time>
<p>Like, I just, it was amazing.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:10:08</time>
<p>Everything I wanted, I knew this was what I wanted to do, and like I said,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:10:11</time>
<p>they were, he was great with me.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:10:12</time>
<p>They were all great.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:10:14</time>
<p>Three days later, I'm in the Hilo, because again, I could choose</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:10:18</time>
<p>what flights I wanted to fly every day on in the helicopter, because</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:10:23</time>
<p>I'm attached to that squadron.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:10:25</time>
<p>I just sit in the back with the rescue swimmers, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:10:27</time>
<p>And I'd be like, I'll go on this flight today.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:10:28</time>
<p>Get off the carrier.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:10:29</time>
<p>Something fun to do.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:10:30</time>
<p>We're in starboard D I'm back with the rescue swimmers.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:10:33</time>
<p>There's two of them back there.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:10:33</time>
<p>We're kind of just goofing around and we hear aircraft in the water.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:10:37</time>
<p>Like you hear the thing that you're like, oh my gosh, and I'm,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:10:41</time>
<p>my eyes got so big, we all, and they start throwing their gear on.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:10:45</time>
<p>Two F fourteens had hit each other.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:10:47</time>
<p>Oh my God.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:10:48</time>
<p>They had clipped wings, just like, um, they were trying to dog fight,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:10:53</time>
<p>which we don't really practice as much anymore because there's not really a</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:10:57</time>
<p>country that can fly as well as us.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:10:59</time>
<p>It's not an ally.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:00</time>
<p>So they clipped wings.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:02</time>
<p>They got too close.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:03</time>
<p>The pilot I had flown with actually was one of them.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:06</time>
<p>He made it back to the carrier.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:09</time>
<p>The other one went into the Mediterranean.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:12</time>
<p>And just like in Top Gun, the pilot died, he hit his head on the canopy, got</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:16</time>
<p>wrapped up in the parachute and drowned.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:18</time>
<p>We rescued the NFO Naval Flight Officer like Goose who sat in the back.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:23</time>
<p>When you sit on an ejection seat, you wear these shin straps that pull your</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:27</time>
<p>legs up under the seat 'cause you're basically sitting on a rocket, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:32</time>
<p>Well one of them had failed and he basically saw his leg</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:34</time>
<p>shoot up right in by his face.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:37</time>
<p>So he had broken his leg basically.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:39</time>
<p>And um.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:40</time>
<p>I was barely attached.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:42</time>
<p>And so when they got him into the Hilo, he's screaming, the rescue</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:45</time>
<p>swimmer's splinting it and wrapping it, and we're going back to the</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:48</time>
<p>carrier, and then they eventually will fly him to Turkey to save his leg.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:52</time>
<p>I help with the stretcher, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:55</time>
<p>Because they get him and, and I'm, again, I'm a midshipman.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:58</time>
<p>I know nothing, but I'm wearing a flight suit.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:00</time>
<p>I'm in the back of this Hilo.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:01</time>
<p>I'm watching everything, and I just help with the stretcher</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:04</time>
<p>as we get to the carrier.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:07</time>
<p>And he looks up at me and he said, when I heard the rotors coming,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:10</time>
<p>I knew I was gonna be okay.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:12</time>
<p>And that's when I said, I'm gonna be a helicopter pilot.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:16</time>
<p>Oh yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:16</time>
<p>Right.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:17</time>
<p>What year was that?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:18</time>
<p>This was 1998.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:21</time>
<p>And I'm still friends with that NFO.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:23</time>
<p>I am friends with him on LinkedIn.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:26</time>
<p>Um, the pilot I flew with has subsequently, he, he, we went on</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:31</time>
<p>to be a commanding officer of flu f fourteens, but he subsequently has</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:34</time>
<p>died of cancer and he's at Arlington.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:36</time>
<p>I visit his grave and tell his story.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:38</time>
<p>His call sign was Rhino.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:40</time>
<p>But, uh, after that I went to flight school.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:43</time>
<p>So this is, I graduate from Penn State, 1999.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:47</time>
<p>You graduate in uniform, your commission the day before you graduate.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:51</time>
<p>So when my parents come to my graduation, they can at least</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:54</time>
<p>pick me out of the 10,000 people.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:56</time>
<p>'cause I'm in my, uh, uniform instead of cap and gown.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:59</time>
<p>And then I go to flight school and flight school again.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:04</time>
<p>Being a swimmer was such a benefit for me.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:08</time>
<p>I beat everybody in the pool.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:10</time>
<p>We do a mile swim in full flight gear.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:13</time>
<p>I beat everyone like.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:15</time>
<p>Everyone, men, women, didn't matter.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:17</time>
<p>I was first outta the pool.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:18</time>
<p>So much so that the guys who ran the training tank gave me the best time.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:23</time>
<p>They're like, Mitchell, this is the best time.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:25</time>
<p>Can you beat it?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:26</time>
<p>I'm like, I can beat it.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:27</time>
<p>Get everyone outta my way, because you have to swim around everybody, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:31</time>
<p>And they're like, oh, we can't do that.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:32</time>
<p>I'm like, I can't.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:34</time>
<p>I'm trying to maneuver between everyone who's slower, but I can beat that time.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:38</time>
<p>Now, I didn't beat it because again, there was like 20 of us in the pool.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:42</time>
<p>But um.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:43</time>
<p>But I beat everybody and I made a point.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:46</time>
<p>I could do pull-ups, I could lift a guy on my shoulders.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:50</time>
<p>I could do, I mean, I'm not a small girl.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:52</time>
<p>I'm five seven.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:53</time>
<p>And so it kind of helps because when you're going through aviation,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:57</time>
<p>uh, physiology, you have to get measured everywhere, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:00</time>
<p>Shoulder to hip, hip to knee, uh, shoulder to the end of your hands.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:05</time>
<p>'cause you've gotta fit in a cockpit.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:08</time>
<p>That was built for men.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:10</time>
<p>Right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:10</time>
<p>And so being a bigger woman helped and being able to do those things helped.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:14</time>
<p>And I think having a mother who proved herself in, in a, a male dominated</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:19</time>
<p>field, she told me, just do the things.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:22</time>
<p>Just do all the things and let them see you do the things,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:25</time>
<p>Jenn, and that'll be enough.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:27</time>
<p>And it was true.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:28</time>
<p>I trained with all these guys.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:29</time>
<p>I could throw a guy on my shoulders and I never heard anything about she can't do</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:34</time>
<p>it.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:34</time>
<p>So you weren't, you weren't intimidated by this at all.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:38</time>
<p>No.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:38</time>
<p>And I tell people, they ask me, where does that confidence come from?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:41</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:41</time>
<p>And I think it's because I had a six foot 4, 240 pound father who</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:47</time>
<p>a hundred percent believed in me.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:49</time>
<p>Yeah,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:49</time>
<p>right.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:50</time>
<p>People always say, you're a woman in the military, do you have daddy issues?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:54</time>
<p>And I always laugh.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:55</time>
<p>I'm like, I've, if you meet a father who loved and supported me</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:59</time>
<p>and I never had to worry about, you know, having a male figure in my</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:03</time>
<p>life, uh, yeah, I had daddy issues.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:07</time>
<p>I had a father who was a, he beca became a high school football coach.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:10</time>
<p>After that, he was also a, uh, you know, in the law enforcement, and</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:15</time>
<p>he a hundred percent believed in me.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:17</time>
<p>He was like, you can do it, Jenn.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:18</time>
<p>Just go out there and do it.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:20</time>
<p>I have a hundred percent faith that you can, you can achieve this.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:23</time>
<p>So, because I had the support of both my parents, I didn't</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:27</time>
<p>care what anyone else thought.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:29</time>
<p>I didn't, and I was, I was making the grades, I was getting the scholarships.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:33</time>
<p>I that had that great experience on the Eisenhower.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:37</time>
<p>I felt very reinforced by my confidence that I could do this.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:43</time>
<p>But I tell people, flight school, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:45</time>
<p>I graduated in 99, started flight school in 2000, the beginning of 2000.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:48</time>
<p>It's, it's hard.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:50</time>
<p>I had never flown before.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:52</time>
<p>Right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:53</time>
<p>No private pilot's license.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:55</time>
<p>You started from scratch, so you started from scratch when you were,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:58</time>
<p>when you were 17, 18 years old, you weren't out at the local municipal</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:02</time>
<p>airport in the, in the Sessman 1 72, taking the, the flight lessons.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:07</time>
<p>No, because as much as like, I would have loved to have done that, my</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:11</time>
<p>parents were blue collar workers.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:13</time>
<p>Sure.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:13</time>
<p>Right.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:13</time>
<p>I, I could not have afforded school without the Navy.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:17</time>
<p>Uh, I had good grades, but not good enough to get a full academic scholarship.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:23</time>
<p>I had good grades to get a full Navy scholarship, you know, and,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:27</time>
<p>um, and so I, I had to work all my summers just to afford the</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:32</time>
<p>basics when I got back to school.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:34</time>
<p>And so, uh, I.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:37</time>
<p>Never had a chance for any, anything sub, you know, extra</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:42</time>
<p>before I went to flight school.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:43</time>
<p>Uh, I had just watched Top Gun a million times, but I tell people your</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:47</time>
<p>first flight, they show you everything.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:49</time>
<p>Your second flight, you take off by yourself.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:52</time>
<p>Your third flight, you land by yourself.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:54</time>
<p>You can't do that.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:55</time>
<p>You're out.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:56</time>
<p>We're talking helicopters here.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:58</time>
<p>I, I actually got my pilots.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:59</time>
<p>No fixed wings.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:00</time>
<p>Fixed wings, fixed wings first, okay?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:01</time>
<p>Mm-hmm.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:01</time>
<p>I got my pilot's license in, in 2000, the summer of 2000.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:06</time>
<p>Um, only because I, I worked in a, in a group of five guys in, in the CIA</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:13</time>
<p>station overseas and in the course of conversation one day they all mentioned</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:18</time>
<p>that they all had their pilot's licenses.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:21</time>
<p>And I said, oh, please.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:22</time>
<p>I said, if you dopes can get pilot's licenses, I can too.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:26</time>
<p>And we laughed and I mentioned to my ex-wife, um.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:31</time>
<p>Hey, everybody in the branch has a pilot's license.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:33</time>
<p>I think I'm gonna, I'm gonna give it a try.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:35</time>
<p>She said, what?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:36</time>
<p>You're too stupid to get a pilot's license.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:38</time>
<p>You have to, you have to be good in math and, and calculus and stuff like that.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:44</time>
<p>So I went home on r and r. My dad and I were in the car driving</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:50</time>
<p>to Walmart and there was, I, I'm also from Western Pennsylvania.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:54</time>
<p>Newcastle, Pennsylvania, which is just north of Pittsburgh.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:57</time>
<p>I know that.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:58</time>
<p>So, and we also had a killer football team.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:01</time>
<p>Uh, still do, in fact we're, anyway, we're number one right</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:04</time>
<p>now, but that's a different issue.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:05</time>
<p>So, um, I was taking a shortcut to the Walmart and it was past the local</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:11</time>
<p>airport and they had a banner out front and it said, learn to fly here.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:17</time>
<p>So I said, dad, let me pull over for a minute.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:19</time>
<p>I just wanna go in and ask him a couple of questions.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:21</time>
<p>So I park the car I run in.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:22</time>
<p>I said, how much does it cost and how long does it take?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:26</time>
<p>And he said, um, it's $5,000 flat, and if you're serious,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:32</time>
<p>you can do it in six weeks.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:35</time>
<p>And so I learned to fly in six weeks.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:37</time>
<p>Now landing is hard.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:40</time>
<p>Taken off is easy.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:42</time>
<p>Flying the plane, the plane wants to stay in the air, it flies itself.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:45</time>
<p>Mm-hmm.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:46</time>
<p>Landing is hard.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:47</time>
<p>And what I'm gonna ask you about in a second is flying a plane is one thing.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:52</time>
<p>Flying a helicopter is an entirely different animal.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:57</time>
<p>Yes.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:57</time>
<p>So</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:58</time>
<p>your training in a fixed wing aircraft.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:01</time>
<p>Mm-hmm.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:02</time>
<p>And then</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:02</time>
<p>what?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:03</time>
<p>So everyone who goes to flight school trains in fixed wing.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:07</time>
<p>Um, and again, it's to weed you out.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:10</time>
<p>And, and what do you, what kind of fixed wing are you training on a T 34 mentor?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:14</time>
<p>You probably have seen them.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:15</time>
<p>There's, they're on the flight deck of the intrepid.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:18</time>
<p>Uh, they're painted orange and white.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:20</time>
<p>Like, stay away from me.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:21</time>
<p>Right, right.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:22</time>
<p>Students are in here.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:24</time>
<p>It's, it's a, it's a turbo prop.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:25</time>
<p>It's a pretty powerful aircraft.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:27</time>
<p>'cause I'll do my, I'll do all my aerobatics in that aircraft.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:31</time>
<p>I learned how to fly form in that aircraft.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:33</time>
<p>I do a cross country in that aircraft.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:34</time>
<p>That's what you all, everyone does this in primary flight school and</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:38</time>
<p>um, it's a lot of testing beforehand.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:41</time>
<p>Like you said, it's a lot of like aerodynamics and thermodynamics and.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:46</time>
<p>Weather engines, they throw a lot of testing quickly at you in</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:51</time>
<p>eight weeks, and you fail till you're out and 80% is passing.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:55</time>
<p>So that's how they first weed you out.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:57</time>
<p>And then it's a lot of physical fitness tests, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:00</time>
<p>And that's, that's even before you fly a lot of physical fitness tests and eyes,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:06</time>
<p>all those things for pilots, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:08</time>
<p>Colorblindness, eyes, all those things that could also disqualify you.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:12</time>
<p>And then you start to fly fixed wing, which I like again,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:15</time>
<p>first flight, they show you.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:16</time>
<p>Second flight you take off.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:19</time>
<p>Third flight you land and you brief these flights for an hour</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:22</time>
<p>before you even get in the cockpit.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:25</time>
<p>You have to talk through every procedure.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:27</time>
<p>You have to have studied them.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:29</time>
<p>And I always would get like the hardest guys, like the people who had the</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:34</time>
<p>reputation of being very difficult.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:36</time>
<p>And I remember being like, okay, gotta do it, Jenn.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:40</time>
<p>Gotta do it.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:41</time>
<p>Right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:41</time>
<p>So I would just put my head down and study and learn and get in</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:46</time>
<p>there and just give it my best.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:48</time>
<p>I think they wanna see that, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:51</time>
<p>They want, they're trying to weed out people who are</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:54</time>
<p>not confident in themselves.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:55</time>
<p>'cause you want a confident pilot, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:58</time>
<p>You want a pilot who's like, I can do that.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:00</time>
<p>I'll figure it out.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:01</time>
<p>We'll get, we'll get in, we'll get out, we'll, we'll get them, we'll save them.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:05</time>
<p>And so I think they're looking for that foundation of you</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:09</time>
<p>as a, as, even as a learner.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:11</time>
<p>And so.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:13</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:13</time>
<p>And I loved it.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:14</time>
<p>I learned it quickly.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:16</time>
<p>Right.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:16</time>
<p>And I just, I loved being in the sky.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:19</time>
<p>And I tell people, my first solo was, my 13th flight is your first solo.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:24</time>
<p>And like you said, we fly every day.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:26</time>
<p>And if you, I think you become a better pilot flying every day.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:29</time>
<p>It's a lot of study.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:30</time>
<p>Absolutely.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:31</time>
<p>Absolutely.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:31</time>
<p>It's a lot of work.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:32</time>
<p>Yes.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:33</time>
<p>Right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:33</time>
<p>Mm-hmm.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:33</time>
<p>But it's just like driving.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:34</time>
<p>If you drive every day.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:36</time>
<p>You're gonna be better.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:37</time>
<p>And same thing with flying.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:39</time>
<p>It's a, like you're studying your butt off, but that 13th, that 13th flight,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:44</time>
<p>your solo, you take off, you go to another field, you do five touch and GOs,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:49</time>
<p>and they watch you and they grade you.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:51</time>
<p>And then you have like an hour to go back to the original, you</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:55</time>
<p>know, Pensacola original field.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:57</time>
<p>And um.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:58</time>
<p>I climbed up in close to the clouds and I could see my shadow on the cloud,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:04</time>
<p>and I could see just me in the cockpit like no instructor, and I put my hand</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:08</time>
<p>on the windscreen and I had never felt.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:11</time>
<p>Such a sense of accomplishment in my life.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:15</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:15</time>
<p>Why know?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:15</time>
<p>Like</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:15</time>
<p>I did it.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:16</time>
<p>I did this from nothing.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:18</time>
<p>Yes.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:19</time>
<p>From nothing.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:19</time>
<p>I, from nothing.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:20</time>
<p>My dream.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:21</time>
<p>I brought it all the way through to fruition.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:24</time>
<p>I can do this.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:26</time>
<p>Right.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:26</time>
<p>And that's just my first solo.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:29</time>
<p>From there you learn aerobatics, which is so much fun, you know,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:32</time>
<p>spins and dives and rolls.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:34</time>
<p>And then you do two solos doing that on your own in the cockpit.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:38</time>
<p>So you're pulling Gs and you're making sure you don't pass out</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:41</time>
<p>because you're flying solo.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:43</time>
<p>Uh, I loved flying form.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:45</time>
<p>You learn how to tuck in, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:46</time>
<p>So when you see the blue angels, when you see the thunderbirds, how they're</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:50</time>
<p>tucked into each other, looking at a sight picture, I tell people, you never</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:53</time>
<p>take your eyes off the other aircraft.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:56</time>
<p>You're constantly looking at them.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:57</time>
<p>You don't look at your cockpit at all.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:00</time>
<p>You're making little movements to keep that site picture perfect,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:03</time>
<p>and the only person navigating is the lead, the one who's looking</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:07</time>
<p>outside, you're just with them.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:08</time>
<p>So you don't even know when you're rolling.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:10</time>
<p>You're just so tucked into that site picture that you're just</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:13</time>
<p>going, you don't even realize that what you're doing aerobatics wise.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:18</time>
<p>And so, uh, I loved form.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:20</time>
<p>And then from there you graduate.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:22</time>
<p>Primary intermediate is your cross country, and then you go to advanced.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:26</time>
<p>And advanced is rotary wing.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:28</time>
<p>Wow.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:28</time>
<p>And yes, learning to hover is divine</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:33</time>
<p>because it is hovering is little micro movements they call it.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:39</time>
<p>I, I'm stirring the soup right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:41</time>
<p>Because to hover, to hold a hover is these little micro movements to</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:46</time>
<p>keep you in a nice, balanced hover.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:49</time>
<p>And, uh, you learn all these things with helicopters because you</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:52</time>
<p>have to learn how to auto rotate.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:54</time>
<p>Auto rotation can save your life.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:56</time>
<p>It's the only way to save the aircraft from an engine failure.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:00</time>
<p>You practice auto rotation every time you fly, and so.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:05</time>
<p>It was a different animal, but I loved it.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:08</time>
<p>I loved, you're low, you're slow, you do a lot of land navigation and uh, I</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:14</time>
<p>knew my job in the Navy would be a lot more saving lives than taking lives.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:21</time>
<p>And so, but, so this is all happening in 2000 and I just finished flight</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:29</time>
<p>school the beginning of September, 2001.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:33</time>
<p>And again, my mom's from New York.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:35</time>
<p>I'm done with flight school.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:37</time>
<p>It's September 4th.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:41</time>
<p>I walk into my commanding officer's office and I said, uh, I, I, we</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:45</time>
<p>had talked before, they had never had a female pilot at all in Japan.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:50</time>
<p>I wanted to be that female pilot in Japan.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:52</time>
<p>My c said.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:54</time>
<p>If you're first, Jenn, if you're first, I'll make sure you're</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:58</time>
<p>the first female pilot in Japan.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:00</time>
<p>I walk into his office September 4th.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:02</time>
<p>I said, how's it looking?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:03</time>
<p>He goes, you're first, you're gonna Japan.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:05</time>
<p>I'm like, awesome.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:07</time>
<p>September 11th happens, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:10</time>
<p>My parents are coming in for my wings.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:11</time>
<p>September 14th, my mom calls me.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:13</time>
<p>I'm sleeping in because I'm done with flight school.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:17</time>
<p>Uh, I pick up the phone.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:18</time>
<p>My mom's from New York, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:20</time>
<p>And she's like, turn on the television.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:21</time>
<p>And I saw.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:23</time>
<p>We, we, the first plane had hit, right, and that's when I was</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:27</time>
<p>like, what, what's going on?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:28</time>
<p>Did they, was that a mistake?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:31</time>
<p>Were they, was it, was it.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:32</time>
<p>Out of fuel was the engine failure and they crashed and, and then</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:36</time>
<p>we saw the second plane hit on, I watched it on TV with my mother</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:39</time>
<p>and I said, mom, I gotta go.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:41</time>
<p>I knew in that moment it was an attack.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:44</time>
<p>I knew it.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:45</time>
<p>And um, my commanding officer shut down the base, right.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:50</time>
<p>All the bases was shut down.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:51</time>
<p>He called us all, told us to meet him at a waffle house off base.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:56</time>
<p>My whole winging class, I'm winging with about 20 people.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:01</time>
<p>And we meet at the Waffle House and he's like, okay.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:04</time>
<p>Uh, bases had been shut down.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:05</time>
<p>This is when we knew everything.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:07</time>
<p>We already, the Pentagon had been attacked.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:09</time>
<p>And so, um, Shanksville, the crash had happened in Shanksville.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:12</time>
<p>And so we all knew something was going on.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:15</time>
<p>And he's like, you're anyone who's coming to your winging, we</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:18</time>
<p>need all copies of documentation.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:20</time>
<p>There's cars will be searched.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:22</time>
<p>You only get one vehicle across.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:24</time>
<p>Uh, so who's ever coming to your winging?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:26</time>
<p>We need to all that documentation now.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:29</time>
<p>Orders are being pulled.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:31</time>
<p>And he looked at me and he goes, Jenn, they need you in San Diego.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:35</time>
<p>And I said, yes, sir. He goes, that's where you're going.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:37</time>
<p>I said, okay.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:38</time>
<p>So I didn't even question it, right.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:40</time>
<p>I didn't even question what helicopter was flying, what was needed.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:43</time>
<p>I, I tell people I joined the Navy.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:47</time>
<p>To see the world, to get college paid for, to fly, and all of a sudden</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:52</time>
<p>now I'm gonna be fighting, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:54</time>
<p>Fighting a war.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:55</time>
<p>Now, I knew that could be a possibility, but it was not what</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:59</time>
<p>I had specifically joined up for.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:02</time>
<p>But I was ready to do my job and, uh.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:05</time>
<p>So September 14th happens, my parents come to my winging, it's fantastic.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:10</time>
<p>And then I'm supposed to ship out to San Diego to start Sears school.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:14</time>
<p>So we'll talk about sea school and waterboarding, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:16</time>
<p>Um, I'm set to start SERE School in October, 2001.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:25</time>
<p>If you wanna hear what</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:26</time>
<p>SERE school was like, what it was like flying over a rack before</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:29</time>
<p>we had troops on the ground, and what continues to drive gin.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:32</time>
<p>Check out the Deep Focus podcast on YouTube, or just click the first</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:36</time>
<p>link in this podcast show notes.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:38</time>
<p>We'll talk to you next time.</p>
<p></p>
<p></p>