Finding Major Dick Winters Grave: His WW2 Legacy & Where to Visit

<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:01:42</time>
Can't miss this guy. Like, he's, he's the man.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:01:46</time>
I mean, he, He. He really is. And, And I always kind of wonder about Dick Winters.

Like, I mean, I know he had kind of his own stuff to say during the miniseries, but I always wonder about Dick Winters is like, how many other officers were out there doing what he was doing. And I think that's, you know, we, we put him on the pedestal, but really he's the. He. He kind of represents, in my opinion, you know, the best.

The best of us at that time.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:02:18</time>
And I, like, I think he. I. I did. I never knew him personally, but I think from what I gather, when he speaks, he feels that way, too.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:02:28</time>
Yeah.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:02:28</time>
Because I think you and I both feel that way, too. Like officers in the military, we know there are many people with integrity like us, as many people who are honorable like us.

There's many people who are brave. Just certain people get that opportunity to really shine in that. And I don't.

I don't want to say shine because you have to do what you have to do when it's done. And that. That's really what Dick Winters does. That night of, Of Normandy.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:02:56</time>
Yeah. And it's one of those things, too.

I mean, even now, you know, I'll talk to officers that work for me or enlisted or whatever like that, and you have the typical miscommunication, or people get frustrated because they think someone else is trying to pull one over on them or something like that. Right. Even. Even in the military, people are people.

But I always tell them, like, 99.8% of the time, that person on the other end of the phone and other end of an email or the other end of the table during a conversation is they're, especially in the military, I think they're coming from the right place. They're trying to do the right thing. They're just doing it through their lens.

And that's why part of me, and I know this is kind of like not a popular opinion, but sometimes I feel a little bit for Sobel.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:03:46</time>
Yeah.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:03:47</time>
Because he was trying to do what he thought was right in his own way. Now, the way it was portrayed in the book and the movie. And I don't know if it was.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:03:56</time>
I don't think it was 100% accurate, because you're looking for that conflict.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:04:00</time>
Yeah, you're looking for that conflict. But I kind of. I feel for him a little bit because he's kind of the. Painted to be the bad guy.

But the reality of it is, and you saw it A couple times through the miniseries was his leadership. What's his name, the colonel? Sink.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:04:18</time>
Sink.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:04:19</time>
He told him, you've trained the best men out of. Out of everybody. I don't know if the ends justify the means.

Again, displayed for the miniseries, he was kind of painted as the antagonist, but sometimes I feel a little bit for him. But back to Dick Winters, he's just.

His leadership lessons and the examples that they brought out that Stephen Ambrose wrote about in the book and that they kind of highlighted in the miniseries and stuff like that. I mean, those are. I mean, they're studied now.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:04:54</time>
Yeah. So I think of it as.

When we talk about the Greatest Generation, we talk about World War II, and really when we talk about Dick Winters, I think of Dick Winters more as the symbol of those men. Because it's a lot I want to express to people that even the military was a lot different when we served. People did not push themselves forward.

People did not push their merits forward. People did not talk about what they did. It's become so popular now for people to be like, I was the one who did it. Nobody did that.

Even when I was going through, we kept quiet, we put our heads down. We didn't take pictures, we didn't take videos of ourselves. We did the job. Dick Winters is that guy. And there were many guys like Dick Winters.

And I think that that's what I try to stress is, yes, is he a great example of somebody who served their country honorably? A small town boy who went and helped save America. But there were many small town boys who went and helped save America.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:05:58</time>
Yeah. And I think you do a good job of talking about that in a video.

I think he even said kind of, you know, he reminds you a little bit above of the, like, the Bedford boys. Right. And we have separate videos on that.

And for folks listening to the podcast, I'll link those old episodes, podcast episodes and video episodes in the show notes. But yeah, he was quite an amazing person and pretty cool that he was from Pennsylvania, so you got to visit his grave.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:06:23</time>
Yeah. And I think, too, it's because of Ambrose, because of the miniseries, his story comes out.

Yeah, he was never that guy who was pushing out his story either. So you think about how many stories Dink had pushed out. Now we celebrate Dick Winters. I think to celebrate him is also to celebrate these other men.

But. But he's from Pennsylvania.

He's from a small rural area outside of Penn State, outside of Gettysburg, that I seem to mispronounce, even though I went to Penn State and I'M from the P, Pennsylvania area.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:06:53</time>
Yeah, so. So. So for those who haven't seen the episode or looked at the comments, you know, so we pronounce it. He's his.

The grave site is outside of Lancaster, Pennsylvania. And that's how you spell it. L, A, N, C, A, S, T, E, R. Yeah. Lancaster, Lancaster.

We have plenty of folks from the area who say it's pronounced Lancaster.

And I'm like, Jen and I were talking earlier, and please feel free to shoot us an email or drop us a comment if you have a thought on this, but just because someone's from an area and they have an accent does not mean that accent is the correct pronunciation of a word. So just because you say Lancaster does not mean that that's how the word is technically pronounced. But we just.

We find those kinds of things entertaining. JD Deals with that all the time, especially when he's traveling overseas from history underground. So. But yeah, just a funny aside.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:07:47</time>
And if you know me, I have a real hard time with pronunciation anyway.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:07:51</time>
Yes, my. My wickedly smart wife cannot pronounce words that are ever so slightly difficult or if the word is sheriff.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:08:02</time>
So I. I want understood, though. I don't want anyone to get upset.

Like, when I talk about heroes, and I do this really, when I talk about Little Round Top and Strong Vincent and Chamberlain, and when we talk about Winters and his heroism and other people's heroism, I'm not taking away from Winter's heroism. When I say there were other men like Winters. It's not like pie. I said that on the Dressing Gettysburg podcast.

It's not like everyone gets a limited amount of slices of heroism. It's me saying that we. Winters portrays these. This heroism.

But remember all the men that went over and fought during World War II, and they don't tell their stories because they were. They did it. They were done. They saw so much. Winter saw so much.

Even he says he didn't have PTSD until they were filming Band of Brothers, and he went to a location and saw people in. In reenacting, and he couldn't. He couldn't walk on set.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:09:01</time>
Yeah.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:09:01</time>
So they. They dropped. They left it behind. Right? They fought this war. They were drafted to do it. They were heroes. They saved the world.

And then they went back to their lives. And Dick Winter's story just got told because Stephen Ambrose picked it up and told the story. The miniseries was a huge success.

But just know that men came home and live their lives. They baby boomed. Right? They. He went back to work in Pennsylvania, had a farm Outside of Hershey. And I. I heard from people who'd, like, he would.

He would be involved in the community and stuff.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:09:38</time>
But, yeah, he was just a regular guy.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:09:40</time>
A regular guy.

And so I want it to be understood that Winters, to me, represents those heroes of America, just like the Bedford boys represent those heroes of D Day. And it was an honor to go there. We've talked about Winters before on this channel. I made a specific point to go to Alderborn when I was in England.

And Alderborn was the area that the 105th Parachute infantry of the 101st Airborne, the 2nd Battalion, Easy Company, was based at before they jumped on Normandy.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:10:16</time>
Yeah.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:10:16</time>
So.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:10:16</time>
So for our listeners, picture England in your head. Right? Picture the uk, Great Britain. Right. The little island up there, the kind of southern part of it. Then there's the English Channel.

Then on the other side of the English channels, you know, the northern part of France.

So the America shipped all its, you know, its folks out to that southern part of England so they could sit there, train, prep for D Day for the invasion of France so they could come drive the Germans out. So that's where Dick Winters was. That's where Easy Company was. So picture England, that southern, southern part of it. Right. Right down there.

And they were there for what, like, nine months?
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:10:56</time>
They were there for about nine months in November 1943, all the way into June of 44. That's that countryside they said best represented France.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:11:08</time>
Yeah.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:11:09</time>
And so they practiced jumping there.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:11:11</time>
Yeah.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:11:12</time>
So they could get an idea of what that looked like and felt like. And they stayed in these huts.

And I take you to the location where those huts were located, but I really took you to the church there because that is where Winters meets the Barnes family. And the Barnes family is who Winters is quartered with during this time. It's him and another officer.

And he says being with that normal family who just lost their son in the Battle of Britain, reinforce what he was fighting for. This normalcy of life, this normalcy of. Of living your life and wanting just your. Your basic hopes and dreams of. Of a normal life.

And so I take you to that location, sit on that bench exactly where Winter sat, so you can kind of get that same kind of feeling. Plus, I. It means a lot for me and you because as officers, we lead people. Yeah, Right.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:12:12</time>
We.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:12:13</time>
We have to instill that motivation. We have to instill that leadership and think Winters is about to lead his men on D Day. This is huge. And he's gonna. If you know anything about the.

The 101st and the airborne, they go behind the enemy line. So he's going to be jumping behind that front beach of Normandy.

They go behind Utah beach and Mayor Saint Igles in that area there, and they're kind of taking the enemy from the back side. And so you have to jump with all your gear. You have to jump with your weapon. Like, it's just a lot to.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:12:50</time>
Well, well.

And that's one of the things that I appreciated about the other miniseries that was put out a couple years ago was Masters of the Air is it shows how dangerous just flying in there was. Right. There was no guarantee they would even be able to jump. Right.

If you watch the Masters of the Air miniseries that they put, that Steven Spielberg put out on Apple tv. Plus, you know, it does a phenomenal job of kind of. This is more B17 centric. Right.

So it's not one massive, you know, thing, but it does a good job of kind of showing how dangerous just those flight missions were.

And so even on D Day, there was no guarantee that they were even going to make it past the coastline because they had those coastal, coastal defenses there shooting down airplanes all the time. And so that's, that's.

They could do all this, all this training and all this stuff and everything, and they would still be at risk of getting shot down out of the sky.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:13:42</time>
Yeah.

And so it's just these, these men just, it's just I want to honor that heroism because these men, if you look at Dick Winters training, I mean, he comes from this small town in Pennsylvania. He's born in New Holland, Pennsylvania. They moved to nearby.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:14:03</time>
When was he born?
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:14:04</time>
He was born in 1918. January 21st.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:14:06</time>
Okay, so just after World War I.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:14:08</time>
Just after World War I. And they moved to. How do you say that again? E P H R A T era.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:14:14</time>
E P H R A T A.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:14:15</time>
Yes. Efrata. That's where he's buried.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:14:18</time>
Pennsylvania.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:14:19</time>
Pennsylvania. And then they moved to Lancaster when he was eight years old. Lancaster, Lancaster.

He graduates from Lancaster boys High School 1937, and then he attends Franklin Marshall College. I also want to stress to people, most officers will have gone to college, and that's why he's an officer. He graduates in June 1941.

So the perfect time right before the bombing of Pearl harbor.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:14:44</time>
And then he signs up himself. Right. He's not even drafted.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:14:47</time>
I think he, I think he, he chose to volunteer under the Selective Service after graduating for college and complete. And complete the required one year of service rather than waiting for a conventional call up.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:14:58</time>
Yeah.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:14:59</time>
Because it might Interrupt his business career. So he was very kind of aw. Of, of he didn't want to be starting his career and then having to go. So he's like, I want to go first.

And he's deducted into the Army. August 25, 1941, near Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.

And then he goes to South Carolina for basic training and he goes to office of candidate school at Fort Benning. And that's where he's commissioned a second lieutenant out of OCS 7-2-1942.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:15:30</time>
Okay.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:15:30</time>
So you can think Pearl Harbors happen. 42. And then that's when he decides to join the Parachute Infantry. And that's when he goes to Camp Tokka.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:15:41</time>
I think it's Toccoa.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:15:42</time>
Toccoa. Oh my gosh. People are gonna lose their mind when they hear me say this wrong. Especially Band of Brothers.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:15:47</time>
Maybe I'll, maybe I'll leave it in. I won't edit it out.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:15:51</time>
I just know this is the joy of being around me and pronouncing words.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:15:56</time>
I'll let our listeners appreciate how while I produce our show.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:16:01</time>
And that's, that's the command that's commanded by Colonel Sink.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:16:05</time>
Yeah.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:16:05</time>
And we visit Sink's grave in Arlington.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:16:08</time>
Yeah. And, and it's interesting too that he said, okay, I'm going to sign up, you know, under my selective service agreement.

Just so I can only need, initially need to do a year. Right. So I can go run my business afterwards. And that was again, because pre, pre Pearl Harbor, Pearl harbor probably happens. And I imagine, right.

If he's in the middle of his training, he hasn't even finished, you know, some of his basic training yet. Everybody like on that day are like, okay, you guys are going to stick around a little bit longer.

Because I imagine they, they probably just said, hey, yeah, if you were, if you had a one year contract, you now have a four year contract.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:16:44</time>
Yeah. And I think too, it was probably like us who were in the military during 9 11.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:16:48</time>
Yeah.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:16:49</time>
We didn't care.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:16:49</time>
Yeah.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:16:50</time>
I bet. Because there was so Pearl harbor motivated so much of America to join the war. When you think about us being attacked.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:16:58</time>
Same for 9 11. After 9 11, like recruiting couldn't, couldn't keep up with the amount of people that wanted to sign up.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:17:04</time>
Yeah.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:17:04</time>
Yeah.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:17:05</time>
So he probably felt, okay, yeah, whatever is needed, I'm going to do. But that's when he joins the Easy Company. It's Company e of the 2nd Battalion, 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment E Easy.

So that's where that Easy Company comes from. And, and then the Training at To Koa was very difficult. Of the 500 officers who had volunteered, only 148 completed the course.

So it was very difficult.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:17:33</time>
I didn't realize that.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:17:34</time>
Yeah. I. And just think about when they did kind of show on Band of Brothers, them running.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:17:39</time>
Yeah. Kurt, Was it Curry Hill?
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:17:41</time>
Yeah. Like, people yell it, but they're in full gear.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:17:43</time>
Yeah.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:17:44</time>
And I don't know if anyone's ever run in full gear. I mean, boots alone, every. I think I have, like, two pounds per foot when you have your boots on. And they're not very forgiving when your feet.

And then you're carrying your rifle.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:17:57</time>
Yeah. And their pack and all the stuff.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:17:59</time>
And they're packing your helmet.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:18:00</time>
Yeah.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:18:00</time>
That's a. That's a lot.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:18:02</time>
Yeah. I didn't realize it was that much of a attrition out of that course. Out of that. That. Out of that training. That's cool.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:18:07</time>
Yeah, it's cool. But when you think about it, too, like, what do you think you're gonna have when you jump into theater?
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:18:13</time>
Oh, yeah, yeah.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:18:13</time>
Right. You're gonna be running with all of this gear. And I was just watching something about the American Revolution yesterday.

There was a group heard the fighting and ran four miles in full gear in 40 minutes to meet the enemy. Patriots. Right.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:18:29</time>
This is American Revolution.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:18:30</time>
American Revolution. But this is over terrain. Things that haven't been cut. Right. And they're carrying their rifles and they hear the fight and they're running to it.

So that's the same kind of mindset that you're getting here. Like, you have to be able to do all of this in your full gear because that's what you're going to have with you.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:18:48</time>
Sure.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:18:49</time>
And so that all that training takes place in. Is that in Georgia? Yeah, I'm pretty sure you can go today. I think JD Has a couple videos from there. You can go up to the top of them.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:18:59</time>
He did, like, a cleanup effort or something like that.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:19:01</time>
Yeah. Because people were spray painting at the top of the mountain. But you can go there. You can see their barracks and. Super cool.

Then we've gone to Alderborn and then Normandy, so we have videos from there as well. They're going to jump about a little after midnight on June 6, 1944. So when you think about people hitting the beaches, they hit the.

Hit the beaches very early in the morning, but right at sunrise, Easy Company and the Airborne are jumping at midnight, close to midnight, very dark. And if you go to Normandy, you can see what that felt like. You can stand there in the Dark jumping. And this is why so many were scattered.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:19:43</time>
Yeah.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:19:43</time>
Because you're not seeing anything. You're jumping at night. That's for protection for them. Right. And so they're jumping into St. Mary Glass. And he.

Winters will jump definitely safely near St. Mary Glass. Now, at that time, he's not commander of Easy Company. The commander of Easy Company is killed that night. Oh, really?

His plane will crash, and he's killed one of the airborne inside that plane.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:20:09</time>
Oh, I didn't know that.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:20:10</time>
Winters doesn't quite know that. But he can't find him when they land, and so he de facto just takes command.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:20:16</time>
Sure.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:20:17</time>
Right. And again, as officers, we understand how that works. It's quick, it's fast. You just. You have to keep moving forward.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:20:24</time>
Yeah. You get you, you get those around you organized, and you. And you get them set up, set in the right direction until you figure out.

Can figure out what's going on and that.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:20:31</time>
And he kind of just maintains that command all through the Normandy Campaign because again, they never. He never knows what happens to the. His fate is not known until after the fact.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:20:42</time>
Yeah.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:20:43</time>
And that's when he's going to lead that big assault. Bright court record. That is the one where they destroy the battery of the German howitzers. And this is where those were firing on Utah Beach.

So this is where he gathers his men, he trains, he gives them a real quick, you know, this is what we're going to do, a plan. And they go and take that area. Winters has 13 men, and they defeat a platoon of 50 German troops. That attack is still studied at West Point.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:21:17</time>
I think I remember you talking about that on. At the Normandy video.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:21:20</time>
Yeah, it's. It's a textbook example of an assault on a fixed position by a numerical. By. By an inferior force.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:21:27</time>
Yeah.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:21:27</time>
So how do you. And they use kind of what they call a kind of wagon wheel approach because they kind of move around. But. Yeah. So we go there in my Normandy video.

We'll take you there to where that was. That is the location where Dick Winters probably should have won the Medal of Honor. Probably should have received the Medal of Honor. Now he didn't.

He gets the. The second Silver Cross for valor. And the reason why he doesn't. Because people ask, why didn't he get it?

It's because at the time, you only got one per unit.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:22:01</time>
Oh, really?
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:22:02</time>
It was very controlled.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:22:04</time>
Oh.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:22:04</time>
And someone had already gotten it for his.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:22:07</time>
I know.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:22:07</time>
For that particular unit. So more than like before, for what Winters did in that moment, taking 13 men, taking command Giving them tactics, taking this whole battery of.

Of German guns that are firing on Utah Beach. And again, you can go there today. They have monuments right there. It's really awesome to see.

For those actions, more than likely, he should have received the Medal of Honor.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:22:33</time>
Wow.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:22:33</time>
And actually, if somebody wanted to go on our campaign to get him one, he probably still could get it.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:22:38</time>
He probably could now. I mean, they, they award that those.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:22:41</time>
You know, posthumously and honestly, I think for his actions that day. But we all know it.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:22:46</time>
Yeah.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:22:47</time>
And we all definitely commemorate him for it. But he. And so on July 1, he was promoted to captain, and that's when he was also told that he was.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:23:02</time>
The commander.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:23:04</time>
Commander of Easy Company as well. And Omar Bradley presents him with the Distinguished Service Cross.

So Lieutenant General Omar Bradley, he's the commander of the US first army, will give him the Distinguished Service Cross for his actions.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:23:20</time>
So for the miniseries. And I imagine. Right. If you haven't seen the miniseries. Absolutely. Go watch it. It's a generational type miniseries. It's phenomenal.

I don't know a single person that doesn't like it. Is it pretty accurate?

Just in general, we're not going to try to break down the whole miniseries in this one podcast episode, but in general, is it relatively accurate to. To life as far as, like, what they did and what he did and stuff like that?
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:23:51</time>
Yeah, I would say it's. I haven't heard much. The only thing I've heard the criticism was Sobel, like you had said.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:23:58</time>
Yeah. Yeah.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:23:59</time>
So was family.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:23:59</time>
He was kind of like his antagonism was blown out of proportion.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:24:03</time>
Yeah, it's a little bigger than.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:24:05</time>
Yeah.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:24:06</time>
But no, I think for the most part it was accurate. And. And if you want to dive more into the accuracy of Stephen Ambrose, we have a whole other podcast.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:24:15</time>
Yeah, that's a great point. There was a couple things that, that are relatively obvious that weren't accurate in the miniseries. A couple people who Ambrose wrote who died.

That person totally didn't die, went on to have a successful career and went on to Korea. Right. So there's a couple characters in the miniseries and in his book.

So if you're ever reading the book or if you've read the book, I'd encourage you to kind of go watch our video and I'll link that particular video where we talk about Ambrose and some of those controversies while we're at the World War II Museum in New Orleans. But he, he did take some liberties to kind of tell the story. So again, his books are always a great place to Start.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:24:56</time>
Yes.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:24:57</time>
Not necessarily 100 factually correct. So just something to. To consider when you're doing this.

But yeah, that's one thing that I was always curious about, because Hollywood will do its thing and we'll make it appear very Hollywood. But it appears to me that the majority of the stories we hear about the characters and Dick Winters was actually pretty true.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:25:23</time>
Pretty true. I mean, you see at the end, the war weariness.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:25:27</time>
Yeah.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:25:27</time>
They. They give his men orders to go capture some German prisoners of war. And he's like, no, why would I put my men in danger?
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:25:35</time>
Well, after they had already done it once. But the night before.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:25:37</time>
Yes.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:25:37</time>
And the. And the. I think the colonel was like, that's great. Let's go do it again. And so he gives.

There's a classic scene, and I put it in a recent video, the classic scene where he says, okay, this is what we're going to do. This is what we're going to do. You know, we're going to go across the river and we're going to try to capture some prisoners of war.

Now, I expect you all to get a good night's rest, because in the morning you're going to tell me that you crossed the river and you were unsuccessful in capturing any prisoners of war. And they all just kind of look at them. They don't send. Nobody says anything.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:26:06</time>
Yep.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:26:07</time>
And he's like, do you guys understand? You understand? And they just say, yes, sir. Knowing that.

What that means to them is he's saying, without saying, we're not going to carry out this mission because we know it's just. It's going to get somebody killed.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:26:22</time>
Yep.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:26:22</time>
You're going to get a good night's sleep. And we're going to tell them we didn't catch anybody in the morning.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:26:27</time>
Yeah. I think again, good leadership. He's showing good leadership. He's showing his men are world.

He needs to really be thinking about his men right now and how just exhausted they are and. And why would he unnecessarily put their lives at risk for something with little gain and all that they have done?

Because he's going to be in the Battle of the Bulge. He's going to be in the Battle of Baston. I mean, he's going to be. They break into the Eagle's Nest, they're going to get into Hitler's headquarters.

And really, like, he has enough points to be done with his time in the army and he decides to stay. He remains during the process of occupation and demobilization, and he's offered A regular commission, but he declines it.

And then he separates from the army in November of 1945.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:27:16</time>
Wow.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:27:16</time>
So he. When you think about it, he's there for the duration of everything, basically.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:27:23</time>
The whole time America was in the war, he was in it.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:27:25</time>
Yeah. And so.

And again, like I said, he's recommended for the Medal of Honor, but he gets the second highest award for combat valor, the Distinguished Service Cross instead. And then he. It says here, after the release of Band of Brothers, representative.

Representative for Pennsylvania introduced a bill asking the President to grant the medal, but the bill died in the House Armed Services Committee in 2007. So maybe someone needs to pick that back up. I don't know.

After the discharge from the army, he worked with a close friend, Captain Nixon, and at his family business in New Jersey, now in Edison Township.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:28:04</time>
Okay.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:28:04</time>
And he became a general manager. And then he gets married in 1948 to Ethel. Remember the E names?
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:28:11</time>
Yeah. His mom had an E name.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:28:12</time>
Yeah. Edith.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:28:13</time>
Yeah.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:28:14</time>
And then he pursues his education through the GI Bill. He takes some courses at Rutgers, and then they buy a small farm in 1945 and they raise two children.

He actually is recalled to active duty during the Korean War. He was ordered to join the 11th Airborne Division, and he's given six months to report.

He actually met with a general, explained that he had seen enough of the war, explained that if he was needed, he would go. He reports to Fort Dix, and then he was assigned as a training officer.

And then he volunteers to go to Ranger School, where he passed and became a Ranger. He received orders to deploy to Korea, traveled to Seattle, and then he was offered the option of resigning his commission, which he accepted. So.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:29:01</time>
So he basically kind of just was recalled and ended up training soldiers. Yeah. You know, for the Korean War.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:29:06</time>
He was going to go into theater and then was offered the resign commission. He took it. And I think after you've seen so much. Right. I always say that, too.

You'll know when you feel like you've spent your nine lives and you'll know, like, I don't want to push the envelope.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:29:24</time>
Well, and one of the things that I kind of appreciate about the whole.

I'll call it, example of Dick winners is that at that time in that era, it was rare, and you kind of had to have the highest level of attention to get to be spotlighted in.

I'll call it the media at the time, because it was just difficult to do in the 40s, 50s, 60s, you know, became a little bit more prevalent in the 60s with 60s and 70s.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:29:54</time>
Yeah. You got the Black sheep with Pepe Boyington and stuff. People really wanted to push that Aviation.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:29:58</time>
Yeah.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:29:59</time>
For it. Because people.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:30:00</time>
And, and again, if you. We. We look back on it, we're like, how do people not know more about him? You know, back then?

It's because there was, you know, tons of men doing what he did. Right. And he was recalled because that's what. The draft was still a thing.

And so rather than draft, they would recall soldiers that were already trained. And the draft didn't go away until the 70s.

And so that's kind of what I appreciate about the whole example of him is he wasn't really pushed to the forefront. Easy Company wasn't really pushed to the forefront till the book in the miniseries.

And then he passed away not too long after, I think the miniseries came out.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:30:38</time>
So he. Well, I. He. He goes into business for himself. He sells animal feed in Pennsylvania. He moves his family to Hershey. He retires in 1997 at 79.

Now, Stephen Ambrose book comes out in 1992, but the miniseries comes out. Right. At 9 11.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:30:57</time>
Yeah, that's right.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:30:57</time>
Right. He's featured in a number of books in 90s. And he's also. When the miniseries comes out, he goes to the Emmy PrimeTime Awards in 2002.

There's a lot more written about him. People will write about the. The Biggest Brother, the life of Major Dick Winters.

He writes his own memoir in 2006, and then he gives a number of lectures. He's given an honorary doctorate at Franklin and Marshall. So once his story comes out, people do want to recognize him.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:31:26</time>
Right. And that's what, again, that's kind of what I like about him as the example is he wasn't pushed to the forefront.

When he was right after he finished his military service, it was like he was 80. Right. Basically, he was basically 80 by the time, you know, in his 80s, by the time he was kind of recognizing and had this spotlight.

And at that point in your life, you're kind of like. I understood, like, his, his stance. Right. Like we talked about in the beginning of the podcast is he feels like he was just.

He wasn't the hero, but he.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:32:03</time>
Yeah.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:32:03</time>
Served with heroes.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:32:04</time>
So that was his. That. I love that quote, and I. I say that quote at his grave. And despite the many accolades he received, he always remained humble about his service.

And then it was an interview for Band of Brothers.

And so in the miniseries final Scene, he's quoted a passage from a letter he received from a sergeant, and it said, I cherish the Memories of a question my grandson asked me the other day when he said, grandpa, were you a hero in the war? And Grandpa said, no, but I served in a company of heroes.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:32:36</time>
Yeah. It's just. It's just so phenomenal. You know, I love in the recognition he got is a thousand percent deserved, but I love that he is just kind of the.

In my eyes, the example of men who served at that time.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:32:53</time>
Yeah.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:32:54</time>
Who did their time, and then they came back and they went back to their regular lives and they ran a business in. Outside of Hershey, Pennsylvania. Right. Or Lancaster. Lancaster. Or whatever it was. Right. And that's what I absolutely love about that. And.

And that's what I respect so much about my fellow, you know, servicemen and women today. I just ran into an old match chief that I used to work with at Subway.

We were both sitting there, and I didn't recognize him because he had long hair and a beard. Classic Navy move. And he put his order in. I didn't recognize him. I started putting my order in. He turns over and looks at me.

He was like, hey, Master Chief. Camera. I was like, oh, my gosh. And I actually used more colorful language. I was like, how are you? Because he and I worked together.

It was probably seven or eight years ago. And I just absolutely love that when people retire and they go back to their regular lives. And we stood the watch. Right.

And Dick Winters, he stood the watch, along with his band of brothers.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:33:52</time>
Yeah. Unfortunately, he will pass January 2, 2011. So right before his birthday, he was in an assisted living in Campbell Belltown, Pennsylvania.

He dies at 92. He had suffered from Parkinson's, the ends of his life. He's buried in a private funeral service.

And we take you to that location in Bergstrass, Bergstrous Evangelical Lutheran Church Cemetery and very old cemetery. When I take you there, there were gravestones from the early 1700s.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:34:28</time>
Oh, wow.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:34:29</time>
Like it? This was one of the original areas of Pennsylvania.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:34:33</time>
That's cool.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:34:33</time>
And if you know anything about Lancaster, this is kind of the Amish country. Like, this is old school. You will see people in horse and buggies there. Like, this is the old school area of Pennsylvania.

Ethel will die in April of 2012 and join him. His gravestone is very unassuming.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:34:52</time>
Yeah, we've had comments, you know, comments on that. And it was like, well, an unassuming grave for an unassuming man.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:34:58</time>
It just says Richard D. Winters. His middle name was Davis, World War 201st Airborne. That's all it says.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:35:04</time>
Yeah. And you'll recognize it because There's. I mean, even when you went there, there was flags already around it.

And so people are kind of visiting and kind of paying their own homage to him. So I just think it was neat that you got to go do that.

You were out visiting Gettysburg and on the Addressing Gettysburg podcast, and you took the time to kind of make the drive out there to kind of visit that. And I think it was just really neat.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:35:27</time>
It was important to me. And I also.

I want to thank the History Museum of Gettysburg because there's a photograph of Winters leaving on the train station from Lancaster with his family. And I was able to go to the Lancaster train station. The building looks exactly the same from the 1940s and stand in the same position.

This is when winters leaves in 1943 to get. Pick up the ship to go to England. But I was able to recreate that photograph. So he's buried about 15 minutes from that location.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:35:58</time>
Yeah. Yeah. No, it was awesome. And again, for those listening for our audience, I encourage you guys to go check out our other episodes.

I will link our other podcast episodes to From Alder Barn and Normandy, as well as the video episodes if you guys want to watch those. So thank you so much for. For joining us and talking about Dick Winters, and we'll talk to you guys next time.
<cite>Jenn</cite>
<time>00:36:18</time>
Yeah, thank you.
<cite>Scott</cite>
<time>00:36:22</time>
This has been Walk with History production. Talk with History is created and hosted by me, Scott Benny. Episode researched by Jennifer Benny.

Check out the show notes for links and references mentioned in this episode. Talk with History is supported by our [email protected] our eternal thanks go out to those providing funding to help keep us going.

Thank you to Doug McLiberty, Larry Myers, Patrick Benny, Gail Cooper, Christy Coates, and Calvin Gifford. Make sure you hit that follow button in that podcast player and we'll talk to you next time.

Finding Major Dick Winters Grave: His WW2 Legacy & Where to Visit

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