John Wilkes Booth's Secret Grave | History Road Trip to Baltimore - Talk With History

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The air hung heavy with the acrid scent of gunpowder

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and the screams of the wounded.

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Private John Blake gripped his musket tighter, his knuckles white.

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The Confederate line was faltering and the Union troops were pressing forward.

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Panic bubbled in his chest, but then he saw him, General Thomas J.

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Jackson, standing firm as a rock amidst the chaos.

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Jackson.

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Clyde in his usual faded frock coat and slouch hat surveyed the

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battlefield with a calm determination.

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Bullets whizzed around him, but he seemed impervious.

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His unwavering resolve inspired the wavering Confederate soldiers

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and they rallied behind him.

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Suddenly, General Bernard B., another Confederate leader, cried

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out, pointing towards Jackson.

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Look, men, there is Jackson standing like a stone wall.

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His voice boomed over the din of the battle, echoing through the ranks.

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Rally around him!

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Found the Virginians.

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The quote there is Jackson standing like a stone wall had an electric effect.

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It perfectly captured Jackson's unwavering presence and served as a

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rallying cry for the Confederates.

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John emboldened by Jackson's leadership and Bee's words poured

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another shot down the barrel of his musket and let loose another volley.

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As the smoke cleared.

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John saw B fall mortally wounded, but Jackson Unfazed stepped forward.

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His roar echoed bees call Rally around the Virginians.

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John and his fellow soldiers surge forward, a renewed sense

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of purpose coursing through them.

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They push back the Union forces in securing a vital

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victory for the Confederacy.

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News of Jackson's heroism spread like wildfire throughout the South.

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Newspapers hailed him as a Stonewall, a steadfast and

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immovable force on the battlefield.

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The nickname stuck, and Thomas J.

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Jackson became forever known as Stonewall Jackson.

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Track 4 effects Stonewall jackson gravesite: Mhm.

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Welcome to Talk With History.

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I am your host, Scott, here with my wife and historian, Jen.

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Hello!

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On this podcast, we give you insights to our history inspired world travels,

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YouTube channel journey, and examine history through deeper conversations

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with the curious, the explorers, and the history lovers out there.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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Now, Jen, we are back.

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back from a little bit of a break.

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At least this is the first podcast that I will publish after,

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after a little bit of a break.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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And one of the things that I asked in the teaser to this episode was for folks

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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to kind of write in about and tell us what their favorite podcast episode was.

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And so we had a new patron, new patron member, Larry Myers.

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He wrote in I'll kind of summarize his email.

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He said, you asked for a question about our favorite episode of Talk with History.

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That's a very hard question.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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Thank you, Larry.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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Being from the Cleveland area, I loved the Lakeview one, but

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also loved the Arlington ones.

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The Arlington ones I think are some of our favorites, but my pick

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is the Strong Vincent podcast.

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I am in the middle of reading a book about him and he's becoming one of my

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favorite leaders from from the Civil War.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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So I thought that was really cool because you are such a strong Vincent advocate.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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Yes.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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So much so, I think we've talked about this before, when you, if you go into

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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stores in Gettysburg, and you ask for like a shirt with Strunk Benson on it,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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if they're a true Civil War buff, they'll know exactly who and why I'm asking for

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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that, but they don't really carry it.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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But you'll find Chamberlain on almost everything.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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And, uh, I'll say it before I say it again, Chamberlain wouldn't be who he

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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was, wouldn't have stood that position without strong Vincent putting him there

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and telling him to stand, hold the line.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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So I find it great to remember him.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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He lost his life at Gettysburg.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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Doesn't get to tell his story and has no descendants because

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his daughter also died young.

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So, I feel like it's our job as historians to kind of tell their

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stories and he's one of them.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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And yeah, I just, I will, I'm proud to talk about Strong Vincent and I'm

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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glad that people are, it's resonating with people and that means a lot.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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So thank you,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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Yeah, yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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So thanks for writing in.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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And again, if anybody else is listening you can either write into us, there's

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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always a link in the show notes, or really if you're listening, one of the things

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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that we're hoping to that our audience can help us out with his followers.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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So if you know someone that enjoys, or if you enjoy these podcasts, and you know

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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someone else that might enjoy some kind of history and travel oriented podcasts

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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like ours, please share it with them.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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So, Jen, we are upgrading the format.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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I'll say upgrading the format of this podcast episode.

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In the beginning, as the podcast, The listener will have just heard we're kind

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of doing, I'm starting to put in some kind of story vignettes to kind of really

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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give a feel for the person, place or thing that we're, we're talking about.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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And so we're talking about Stonewall Jackson and he kind of

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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got his initial fame at Manassas, but before we start getting into

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that part of his life, once you.

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us a little bit about who stonewall jackson was before

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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he was stonewall jackson.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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Sure.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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I mean, before he was Stonewall Jackson, he was just a Virginia boy.

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He's born in what is now West Virginia at the time, Virginia,

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and his parents die young.

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He's poor.

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He wants to go to a military academy.

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He gets into West Point because it's, you know, as it is still today,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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it's paid for by the government.

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If you go to a service academy, he's class of 1846.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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So he's born in January of 1824.

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four.

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So he's graduating at 22 years old.

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So so he's And and I don't think I to be honest

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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never really thought about it.

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So he's basically career military his whole life So he never really

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he wasn't like one of those who?

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Was a farmer or this that and the other he as a young kid wanted to be A soldier and

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went to west point and that's what he did.

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He did his entire

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Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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And he's teaching at VMI for 10 years.

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It's from 1851 to 1861.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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We just called up to for the civil war,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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Wow So he that's right because he did some time You served, got out.

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That's when he went to go teach at VMI.

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That's right.

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And then at VMI, then the Civil War kicks off and like, Hey, Thomas J.

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Jackson, because he didn't have the moniker

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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you know?

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Right now, was he, didn't he kind of have a reputation at VMI?

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I thought like he had his reputation being very strict.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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It says he served in the United States army during the Mexican American war.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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So he did, he was in one conflict and it's in Mexico that Jackson

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will first meet Robert E.

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Lee.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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Okay.

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So he actually met him, While he was during basically his initial

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term of, of, commissioning before he, before he got off of, you know,

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what we would call active duty.

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So that's what he was fighting in the Mexican American war.

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And that's when he met

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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It's when he met Lee and he has an interesting event that

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happens in the Mexican American War.

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He got what he felt was a bad order to retreat and he felt that if he

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would have retreated his troops, it would have been more hazardous and

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it would have claimed more lives.

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So instead he stands his ground and he doesn't retreat and he confronts

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his superiors later with his choice to stay and that judgment proves correct.

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And he was able to And, and holding that ground, they were

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able to fight off the enemy.

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so it was a little bit of a preview of what he did during

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the Civil War consistently.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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So.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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It just showed his strength of character.

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He just shows that he was able to like go up against what he thought was a, you

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know, a superior officer in rank and, and, and prove his rationale for staying.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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So again, it's just a, it's a taste of.

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Jackson.

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Then he goes to VMI.

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He's accepted there as a teaching position.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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He becomes professor of natural and experimental philosophy or

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physics and instructor of artillery.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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Jackson was disliked as a teacher.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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They nicknamed him Tom fool,

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That's what I was thinking

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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believing Jackson could never be anything more than a,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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a half soldier, half preacher.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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Like he wasn't really tested.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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It was like somebody who, uh, do as I say, not as I do, what

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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those who can't do, teach.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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Right?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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That kind of that

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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interesting that, that he, that he had that reputation of VMI

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and then became this shining icon.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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later on, uh, during the Civil

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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And they say when students would ask for explanation about

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:47</time>
something, he wouldn't explain it.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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He would just repeat what he said slower.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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Really?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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How interesting.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:54</time>
So that was the other thing that bothered students, which I

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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think gave him that nickname fool.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:58</time>
And things like that.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:00</time>
So, but that's, like I said, at VMI is where he has his home.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:04</time>
If you want to visit the Stonewall Jackson house, that is in Lexington, Virginia,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:09</time>
because VMI is in Lexington, Virginia.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:11</time>
So you can visit.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:12</time>
And that's the only home he ever owned.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:14</time>
And that is still a museum there.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:16</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:18</time>
I just thought that was such kind of an interesting chapter of

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:20</time>
his life for someone who's, who's so well known for what he did,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:24</time>
you know, as a general, right.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:26</time>
In the Confederate army.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:27</time>
And kind of everybody sees and thinks of him as this career soldier.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:32</time>
And he was because he was at VMI, right.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:36</time>
It is a little bit, but he wasn't continuously serving.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:39</time>
So it's, it's just interesting.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:40</time>
It's different for someone like that.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:42</time>
And so, like you said, his reputation is going to precede himself.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:46</time>
What I want people to know about Jackson, though, is the way I

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:49</time>
understand Jackson, the way I think of Jackson is it's very difficult when

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:56</time>
you think of the Civil War and you think of Lee to not think of Jackson.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:00</time>
His first right hand man general, Stonewall Jackson.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:04</time>
Like even when we think of Grant, you're like, Oh, who's his right hand man?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:07</time>
Could it be McClellan?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:09</time>
Could it be Sherman?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:10</time>
Sherman proves himself in the march to Atlanta,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:10:13</time>
But there's no name that really is, is as

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:16</time>
but Jackson proves himself from the very beginning of the civil war.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:20</time>
So much so that he's a threat throughout the civil war and by his

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:24</time>
own folly, he's, um, distinguished, but his fire is put out.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:29</time>
But even later in life, General Patton will have two pictures on his desk.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:37</time>
It'll be Jesus and, and Stonewall Jackson, right?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:43</time>
And he would tell Eisenhower, I'm your Jackson, right?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:46</time>
And people would tell MacArthur, I'm your Jackson.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:48</time>
Like people would distinguish themselves to these great generals as

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:53</time>
I want to be your Stonewall Jackson.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:55</time>
That's

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:10:55</time>
I, I'm your go to.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:10:57</time>
I, I am your set it and forget it.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:10:59</time>
I will, I will get the job done.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:01</time>
And as much as like.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:03</time>
We don't want to give a lot of credit to the confederacy and give them

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:07</time>
any accolades for their strategic battle maneuvers or anything

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:12</time>
like that Stonewall Jackson was what made Lee so Successful and

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:19</time>
that, and that kind of started from the beginning.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:22</time>
At

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:23</time>
Exactly, and that is where you career soldiers, even World War II, who

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:28</time>
will refer to Jackson as a right hand man.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:31</time>
Because when we talk about Jackson's demise, Lee will say he lost his right

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:36</time>
arm, because he feels like he did.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:39</time>
And that, and honestly, there's a lot of people who believe maybe the Confederacy

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:43</time>
wouldn't have fallen if, Jackson.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:45</time>
You can conjure up anything that never happened, of course.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:48</time>
But this is where Jackson gets the myth and this lost cause scenario.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:53</time>
And he kind of lives today in that.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:55</time>
I don't want him to make him bigger than what he really is, but

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:59</time>
I want people to understand how he's seen in the military mindset.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:04</time>
And he was that strategic military leader.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:08</time>
Did not have that reputation at VMI.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:11</time>
But what I think happened, and, As a former military soldier and you, former

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:17</time>
military soldier, I think what happened with Stonewall Jackson is in his first

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:21</time>
test at the Battle of Bull Run, he really put his teaching into action.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:29</time>
I really think he's, he was so well versed in military maneuvers and

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:34</time>
teaching it, that now he has a chance to practice it against the North.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:38</time>
That's not really ready.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:40</time>
for a conflict and that they have not been tested and they have not been practicing.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:46</time>
He can put these ideas and maneuvers into action.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:52</time>
If,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:53</time>
interesting and I'm glad you brought up kind of what he did in the

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:56</time>
Mexican American war because Having been through something like that.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:02</time>
I know people I've served with people who've had similar experiences not

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:05</time>
like that in battle, but something where they stood up for what

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:09</time>
they thought or knew was right.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:12</time>
Everybody else disagreed with them.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:14</time>
And in the end, it came about that they were actually right.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:17</time>
And what that does is that kind of solidifies something in you that

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:21</time>
says, okay, I've done this before.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:25</time>
I was right when everybody else thought I was wrong.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:28</time>
I'm confident in my decision making and my approach to things

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:33</time>
because I, I I've done it before.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:35</time>
And so that had, And my guess is his experience previously before VMI

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:43</time>
further, you know, kind of gave him that, that, that boldness that he was known for

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:48</time>
of holding the line and really being out there when, when it came to the civil war.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:54</time>
So it's, it's interesting to kind of see that, see that arc from early in his

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:58</time>
career to when he really gained his fame.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:02</time>
if you make a choice like that as a military person, right?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:06</time>
And you're proven right.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:08</time>
It's a great thing.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:10</time>
If you're proven wrong, that's it.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:11</time>
Your career is And you're You know, you'll be lucky if you

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:15</time>
get an honorable discharge.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:17</time>
So to be proven right, it does solidify something.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:20</time>
I think it makes you braver in testing out those tactics again, because

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:27</time>
anytime you're in battle, you're going to be, it's just the fog of battle.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:31</time>
You're going to be scared.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:31</time>
You're going to be nervous.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:32</time>
You're going to be not sure if you're making the right

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:33</time>
decisions, especially as a leader.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:35</time>
And so for him to do it again, battle, bull, run, we have

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:39</time>
an entire video from there.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:41</time>
This is where he's going to get that name, Snowball

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:43</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:43</time>
So he, he gets that name at Bull Run, right.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:46</time>
And then kind of really starts gaining some fame, especially through the South.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:49</time>
Gets the reputation even, uh, even in the North, right, for kind of

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:52</time>
the fierceness of his fighting.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:54</time>
And then another time, you know, and we'll kind of go quickly through his,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:58</time>
his career during the Civil War, but at Antietam, he is really kind of one of the

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:15:02</time>
reasons that the Confederacy essentially like doesn't win, but doesn't lose, right.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:15:08</time>
They kind of, they held at Antietam.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:15:19</time>
Two years, two long, bloody years since the chaos of bull run.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:15:25</time>
Private John Blake, his uniform now a faded reflection of its

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:15:28</time>
former glory, crouched behind a crumbling stone wall at Antietam.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:15:33</time>
The air vibrated with the relentless roar of musket fire.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:15:36</time>
Unlike Bull Run, here, the fight felt different.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:15:39</time>
No clear lines, just a swirling vortex of death.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:15:45</time>
John's heart hammered a frantic rhythm against his ribs.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:15:48</time>
He missed the sight of Stonewall Jackson.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:15:49</time>
The man who had become a symbol of confederate defiance.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:15:53</time>
Jackson, rumor had it, was delayed, capturing some damned federal outpost.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:15:58</time>
John couldn't help but feel a tremor of fear.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:00</time>
Without Jackson's stoic presence, the line felt brittle, easily shattered.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:06</time>
Suddenly, a ragged cheer erupted from the confederate right.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:09</time>
John craned his neck, squinting through the smoke.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:11</time>
There, amidst the carnage, stood Stonewall Jackson, his

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:14</time>
weathered face etched to black.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:16</time>
With a grim determination, a sense of relief washed over John.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:20</time>
It was as if a dam had held and a surge of renewed confidence ran

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:24</time>
through the Confederate ranks.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:27</time>
John watched mesmerized as Jackson surveyed the battlefield.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:30</time>
He pointed parked orders and within moments, Confederate reinforcements were

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:34</time>
streaming toward a particularly felt.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:36</time>
Fierce union assault.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:39</time>
John could almost hear Jackson's voice a steady counterpoint to

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:42</time>
the symphony of destruction.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:44</time>
It was a far cry from the booming rally, cry of bull run.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:48</time>
Yet it had the same unwavering resolve, but Antietam was a different beast.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:53</time>
The day bled into a horrific stalemate.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:56</time>
John, his ears ringing, his body screaming in protest, loaded

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:59</time>
and fired until his limbs ached.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:02</time>
Each time he glimpsed Stonewall Jackson directing troops with the same unwavering

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:06</time>
determination, a flicker of hope rekindled as the sun dipped down below the

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:10</time>
horizon, casting long shadows across the battlefield, littered with dead and dying.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:15</time>
The Union attack finally faltered.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:17</time>
John slumped against the stone wall, his body spent.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:21</time>
He saw Stonewall Jackson on a nearby rise, surveying the carnage.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:24</time>
The man looked older, wearier, yet his eyes still held that same steely glint.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:31</time>
John knew the battle wasn't a decisive victory, but they had held, and that, in

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:35</time>
this bloody hell, felt like a triumph.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:37</time>
As John drifted into an uneasy sleep, he thought of Stonewall Jackson as a symbol

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:42</time>
not just of defiance, but of resilience.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:45</time>
A quality John desperately clung to in the face of an uncertain future.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:52</time>
So, Jackson is the reason for the stalemate, because it was

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:57</time>
looking like a Confederacy loss.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:00</time>
And, uh, he comes, he comes in, gets there and holds the line.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:05</time>
And again, so many casualties that they both kind of just,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:08</time>
Yeah, I mean the bloodiest, the bloodiest

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:10</time>
But he's battle so many casualties that they just kind of haven't

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:15</time>
say just they just stop fighting

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:18</time>
they're just like, we can't do this

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:19</time>
Yeah, and they clean up their men right because it's like

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:21</time>
piles So and that's that's where Lee really starts to see like this

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:27</time>
man can't be It can be replaced.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:32</time>
It's a bull run that he is on his horse and he doesn't move from

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:38</time>
the artillery fire and he doesn't move his men and another general

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:43</time>
will rally his men around Jackson.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:47</time>
He'll point to him and say, you know, look at Jackson standing like a stone wall,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:52</time>
rally, rally around the

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:54</time>
rally around the Virginians.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:56</time>
And so that's where he gets his name.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:58</time>
Now, I.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:59</time>
I, again, this is another movement that could have been a folly

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:05</time>
because to not move during artillery is also as smart as it dumb.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:08</time>
Like at that time, the aim isn't great.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:12</time>
So you're really calling it 50 50 if they can hit you anyway to move, you

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:16</time>
might be moving into fire to stand still.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:19</time>
You might be, so you might be worry free.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:22</time>
He was worry free.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:23</time>
He never got hit.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:25</time>
So it became like almost a legend.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:19:29</time>
and that's what you know that the listeners now as we kind of make our

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:19:33</time>
way through the podcast They've they've heard the couple, you know, probably

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:19:36</time>
act one and act two by now and they've heard you know in in these vignettes,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:19:41</time>
there's a private John Blake, right that I'm writing in here and In that story

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:19:46</time>
that we're telling through this podcast is there is a lot of hope and confidence

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:19:53</time>
that is built up from all the soldiers into this one entity, because they're

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:19:59</time>
just like he seems to just just just He's blessed in some sort of way, right?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:05</time>
And they're not thinking of it in People have to realize that when

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:09</time>
you're in the thick of battle, you're not thinking about the larger picture

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:12</time>
You're trying to stay alive and you're trying to you know, get the fight

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:16</time>
the other side back so that you don't die That's the quick and short of it.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:20</time>
They're not thinking about oh Is it overall about the economy

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:23</time>
or about slavery or anything like or anything else like that?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:26</time>
They're thinking I got to kill the other guy So the other guy doesn't

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:28</time>
kill me and when you have someone like that That's just seems to Not get hit

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:33</time>
by any sort of bullet anywhere anytime and succeed almost everywhere that

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:39</time>
inspires a lot of confidence And so that's what's kind of gaining momentum

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:44</time>
throughout the war all the way up through Antietam Even though it's a stalemate.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:48</time>
It still is kind of The confederacy kind of feels like it's still semi a win

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:53</time>
because they almost should have lost.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:55</time>
Yeah, and he has some big victories, right?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:57</time>
The Battle of Fredericksburg, that's a Confederate victory.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:00</time>
That's because of Jackson.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:01</time>
They held off a strong Union assault against the right flank.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:05</time>
So he's getting a lot of notoriety.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:07</time>
Battle of Chancellorsville.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:10</time>
Now, Chancellorsville, that's, that's more towards the end.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:13</time>
So he actually won that.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:16</time>
But that was, that was kind of when his, his light started to go out.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:20</time>
So tell us about that.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:21</time>
Jackson is proving to be effective.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:24</time>
He's, you know, Lee is very satisfied with Jackson's, actions.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:28</time>
Chancellorsville is going to be a confederate victory, but this is where

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:39</time>
Sergeant John Blake stood among the weary victors at Chancellorsville.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:44</time>
The victory felt hollow.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:46</time>
Whispers of a friendly fire incident involving Stonewall Jackson

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:49</time>
had turned into a grim reality.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:51</time>
Jackson, the man who had inspired John at Bull Run and bolstered his

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:55</time>
spirit at Antietam, lay wounded.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:58</time>
The camp was shrouded in a heavy silence.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:00</time>
A stark contrast to the usual celebratory cheers that followed a victory.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:06</time>
Days bled into each other, filled with a tense anticipation that gnawed at John.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:10</time>
He, along with many others, found himself drawn towards the makeshift hospital.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:14</time>
A constant vigil kept for any news.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:17</time>
Rumors swirled, some hopeful, others grim.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:21</time>
John remembered the unwavering figure of Jackson at Antietam,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:24</time>
his voice a beacon in the storm.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:27</time>
Now that beacon flickered weakly.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:31</time>
One day, the news arrived.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:33</time>
Carried on the hushed tones of a medical officer, amputation.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:38</time>
John's gut clenched.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:39</time>
Snowmobile Jackson, the man seemingly impervious to bullets, had lost an arm.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:44</time>
It felt like a betrayal of their collective.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:45</time>
To faith, a symbol of their own vulnerability.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:49</time>
John pictured Jackson, the man who embodied Confederate resilience, and

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:52</time>
wondered how he would weather this storm.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:55</time>
Days later, another blow.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:57</time>
Pneumonia.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:58</time>
John felt a cold dread settle in his stomach.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:23:01</time>
The whispers grew louder, filled with a morbid certainty.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:23:04</time>
Finally, the news came crashing down.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:23:06</time>
Stonewall Jackson was dead.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:23:09</time>
John stood numb, the cheers of victory from just a week ago

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:23:12</time>
echoing hollowly in his memory.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:23:16</time>
The camp was plunged into a deep morning.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:23:18</time>
John watched as the once vibrant general was laid to rest.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:23:22</time>
A sense of emptiness gnawing at him.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:23:24</time>
He had lost more than a leader, he had lost a symbol.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:23:27</time>
A man who embodied the spirit of the Confederacy.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:23:30</time>
As the army prepared to move on, John found himself

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:23:33</time>
lingering by Jackson's grave.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:23:36</time>
He looked at the fresh mound of earth.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:23:38</time>
A stark reminder of their shared mortality.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:23:41</time>
Stonewall Jackson was gone but his legacy remained, a legacy etched not just in

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:23:45</time>
victories but in his unwavering spirit.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:23:48</time>
John straightened his shoulders, a newfound resolve hardening in his eyes.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:23:52</time>
They would fight on for Jackson, and for themselves, but a question

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:23:56</time>
lingered in the back of his mind.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:23:58</time>
Could the Confederacy, without its Stonewall, stand against the

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:02</time>
relentless tide of the Union?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:08</time>
Samuel Jackson is going to be injured and injured

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:11</time>
to the point of amputation.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:13</time>
Right.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:14</time>
So he's kind of basically, like, kind of walking his lines.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:18</time>
With, with some men.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:20</time>
And I think some of the, there's a unit from North Carolina.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:24</time>
Yes.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:24</time>
So it's May 2nd, 1863.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:27</time>
He's, he's kind of like you said, he's going between these

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:31</time>
lines, checking the night, right?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:33</time>
Making sure people kind of like bedded down for the night, but

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:35</time>
on his troops.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:36</time>
where the lines are.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:37</time>
And they, yes, I think it was a group from North Carolina who think that

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:41</time>
their union And fire upon them and they have to yell at them to stop.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:45</time>
And I want to stress that men died.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:48</time>
It wasn't just Stonewall Jackson got hit in the arm, that a couple men died.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:52</time>
I tried to find their names.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:53</time>
I wanted to know more about those men who died.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:55</time>
It's hard to figure out even those men.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:57</time>
If you listen to this and you're like, I know those men who were killed,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:01</time>
write it and let us know because I really have tried to look that up

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:04</time>
and find the men who were killed.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:06</time>
Because I think it would even be an urban legend to be like, I, my family member

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:12</time>
was one of the members who were killed when Stonewall Jackson's arm was hit.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:17</time>
So his arm was hit in three

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:25:20</time>
It says left

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:20</time>
His left arm, halfway between the elbow and the shoulder, his

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:24</time>
wrist and the palm of his right hand.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:26</time>
So we actually got the right hand was hit too.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:28</time>
And it basically shattered.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:31</time>
Between that halfway point between the elbow and the

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:33</time>
shoulder, it shattered the bone.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:36</time>
And so Hunter McGuire, who we visited his grave, Dr.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:40</time>
Hunter McGuire is the one who amputates his arm on the battlefield there.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:45</time>
Now, as they are carrying him with the stretcher, they drop

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:25:51</time>
That's right.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:25:51</time>
You talked about that

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:52</time>
and it's a very high drop and he can't brace himself because one arm

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:57</time>
shattered, the other arm's been shot and they say his chest hit some rocks.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:03</time>
be important because he's going to develop pneumonia and his lungs are injured.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:08</time>
And usually that is, that's the most telltale sign of pneumonia.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:14</time>
If your lungs are so injured that they can't take a full breath.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:17</time>
And so they sit with the virus in them.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:21</time>
That's how pneumonia can be fatal.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:25</time>
And so, because you might ask, well, how does he die from arm amputation?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:29</time>
So many people have limbs amputated during the Civil War and they don't

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:33</time>
That, that was part of it.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:34</time>
That was, it was the pneumonia that actually kills him.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:37</time>
He's weakened by

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:38</time>
Yeah, because if I remember right, because we've made videos before.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:41</time>
We've made probably two or three videos about Stonewall Jackson.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:44</time>
Where his arm was and where he died and

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:47</time>
Yeah, we take you to where he was shot, to where the arm was

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:50</time>
amputated, to where the arm is buried, L word, and then to where he's buried.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:56</time>
We also take you to where Hunter McGuire is buried, the.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:59</time>
doctor who performs the amputation.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:02</time>
So he's he shot on May 2nd, like late at night, his arm is amputated like the

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:08</time>
early morning hours of May 3rd, 1863.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:11</time>
So he's been fighting for two years, almost two years.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:14</time>
He gets the name Stonewall in July of 1861.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:18</time>
It's almost two years later that he's, you know, this is South is really, pushing,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:25</time>
and I would say winning at this point.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:28</time>
And his, uh, it happens quickly.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:31</time>
May 2nd, he's shot.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:32</time>
May 3rd, it's amputated.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:35</time>
A chaplain will come and once he's given last rights to people and he sees

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:41</time>
that Stonewall Jackson's arm has been amputated and asks, where is his arm?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:45</time>
And they say it's out in the pile.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:47</time>
He's able to decipher which one is his.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:49</time>
He takes the arm back to his brother's farm, which is not

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:53</time>
far from where it's amputated.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:54</time>
And

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:54</time>
I think it's like a mile or two.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:55</time>
see our video, it's his plantation, Elwood, they have names

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:00</time>
and he buries the arm in their family cemetery and the arm will stay there.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:06</time>
And what's interesting is that house actually becomes a headquarters for Grant

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:12</time>
during one another civil war battle.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:14</time>
And little do they know that Stonewall Jackson's arm is in the graveyard.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:28:19</time>
30 yards

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:20</time>
30 yards away.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:21</time>
Like, I just found that so fascinating, but that's beside the point.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:24</time>
So eight days later, he's going to die of pneumonia and we've gone to that

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:28</time>
places where it's called Giddy Station and it's right off the interstate.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:32</time>
They have signs says Stonewall Jackson death site.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:35</time>
It's the Chandler home.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:38</time>
Also another plantation off a railroad track.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:40</time>
There was like a back house office space and that's where

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:45</time>
Stonewall Jackson is buried.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:48</time>
put a nurse, Hunter McGuire, still with him.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:51</time>
He'll pass on May 10th, 1863.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:54</time>
And he gets, his wife is able to get there.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:57</time>
His second wife is able to get there before he passes.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:00</time>
He's delirious.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:29:02</time>
giving orders.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:03</time>
orders to A.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:03</time>
P.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:04</time>
Hill.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:04</time>
And then he like gets a peaceful look on his face and says, let's go rest amongst

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:10</time>
the trees and let's go across the, like the brook and rest amongst the trees.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:15</time>
Like those are his final words.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:16</time>
And then he.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:17</time>
Passes.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:19</time>
And then his body is taken to Richmond, Virginia to lay in state.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:22</time>
It's capital of the South.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:23</time>
And then he's further taken on to Lexington to be buried.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:26</time>
His wife never wants to disturb the arm.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:30</time>
She felt because it was given a Christian burial that the arm should stay.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:35</time>
The arm has gotten a legend of its own.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:37</time>
So if you want to see our arm video, it's,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:29:41</time>
I'll I'll link that in the show

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:42</time>
it's had some history through the years.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:29:44</time>
yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:29:45</time>
Marines have allegedly buried, unburied, dug it up and stuff like that.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:49</time>
people have guarded it.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:29:51</time>
crazy.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:51</time>
But there is a stone there.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:53</time>
So that's kind of neat to

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:29:54</time>
But we actually visited, so our video for this was actually because we

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:29:58</time>
visited his true grave site in Lexington.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:00</time>
So in Lexington, Virginia, again, there was a This is where VMI is.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:04</time>
This is where Stonewall Jackson's house is.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:06</time>
I want to also stress Stonewall Jackson wasn't enslaver.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:09</time>
He had six slaves who worked in his home.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:12</time>
But again, his story gets complicated because it's actually run today

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:18</time>
by an African American woman.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:21</time>
And Stonewall Jackson was known more to the African American people in

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:26</time>
Lexington than they said he was even known to the white people in Lexington.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:30</time>
Because he was so adamant on teaching Sunday school and the black church and

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:35</time>
he, the six people who lived in his home, people asked to be bought by him,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:41</time>
African American slaves, because he would let you work towards your freedom.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:30:45</time>
Oh, interesting.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:46</time>
if you work for him, you could earn your freedom.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:50</time>
He was, he was big into that.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:30:52</time>
So, and, and that's, I love that you bring this up because again, we always

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:30:56</time>
talk about context, but this is the, the shades of gray that is history, right?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:04</time>
People like this, they have a reputation in the easiest thing for the human brain

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:09</time>
to do is to categorize a group of people into whatever sort of category, right?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:16</time>
Hey, the South, the Confederacy, they were fighting for to keep slavery.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:21</time>
It's a lot more nuanced, and there's many shades of gray, and so many so that

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:28</time>
different states had different takes on that, different cities within those

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:31</time>
states had different takes, different people within those cities and states

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:35</time>
had different takes on that, and this is a good example of someone like Stonewall

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:40</time>
Jackson who's such a, an iconic figure when you start talking about the South,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:44</time>
the Civil War, and the Confederacy, There's a lot of shades of gray, and

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:48</time>
I bet a lot of people probably don't, didn't know that that was his approach to,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:52</time>
those he had enslaved, was he was letting them work towards freedom, educating,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:56</time>
teaching Sunday school, stuff like that.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:58</time>
It's one of those things that it's, it's still, it's still enslavement.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:02</time>
There's nothing, there's no breaking that, but the different levels.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:06</time>
of abuse, mentally and physically, where Stonewall Jackson is at.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:11</time>
It just, to me, it's surprising.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:13</time>
And it's just something, it's the truth of history, which is

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:17</time>
the most important thing to us.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:18</time>
And we want you to know the truth.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:20</time>
And again, you decide how you feel about that.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:23</time>
But that's the truth of how he, uh, what he did.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:26</time>
Was connected to slavery and that story is told at the Stonewall Jackson house

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:32</time>
it'll tell the story of those six people who lived there and What their lives were

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:36</time>
like so he's brought back to at the time Presbyterian Cemetery and it was named

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:44</time>
that when it first opened and was built.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:49</time>
It's in, it's 314 South Main Street in Lexington, Virginia.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:54</time>
And a group of Presbyterian church was there.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:57</time>
And so that was their cemetery.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:58</time>
So Presbyterian cemetery, that's where his first wife is buried.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:01</time>
She dies in childbirth with their son, and she's buried, holding their son.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:05</time>
So he's been buried there.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:08</time>
And it's not until about 30 years later, that Edmund Ballantyne, Edward B.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:15</time>
Ballantyne, so.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:16</time>
double B, right, Edward V.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:17</time>
Valentine, who also sculpts the Robert E.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:21</time>
Lee sculpture that's over his grave, sculpts the statue of Stonewall Jackson,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:33:27</time>
that's the one that's in the cemetery

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:28</time>
the one in the cemetery.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:30</time>
And when that sculpture is made, which again, it was 1895.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:35</time>
So, About 30 years after his death, 32 years, his body is moved.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:40</time>
So when you see our video and I'm showing you, this is the original

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:43</time>
grave of Stonewall Jackson.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:44</time>
He's now at this other location.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:47</time>
When you walk into what is today Oak Grove Cemetery, there's a

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:52</time>
path straight to his statue.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:54</time>
It's like the center and it's a circle.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:57</time>
So you kind of walk in a circle around the statue and.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:00</time>
His body was moved in 1895 underneath that statue, but it's

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:05</time>
not just him who's buried there.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:07</time>
It's his first wife with a stillborn child.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:09</time>
She was moved.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:10</time>
Then his second wife, she was moved because she had died

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:15</time>
before the statue was made.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:17</time>
And then his second wife, infant daughter.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:19</time>
He has two daughters by her.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:21</time>
One dies as an infant.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:22</time>
She's buried there.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:23</time>
Then his older daughter, she dies in her twenties, but she's able to have,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:27</time>
she gets married and has children.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:29</time>
So she's buried there with her husband, which I always think is funny.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:32</time>
The poor dude, uh, William Edmund Christian, like people

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:34:36</time>
in the

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:36</time>
forever in the

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:34:37</time>
Stonewall Jackson.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:38</time>
don't know me at all.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:39</time>
He's buried there.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:40</time>
And then their second son, who is Thomas Jackson Christian.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:46</time>
is buried there.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:47</time>
And then there's a little like cenotaph, which is basically like a memorial,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:52</time>
a memorial marker to remind you of someone or in memory of someone.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:56</time>
His son, who fought in World War II, who they believe is buried somewhere

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:01</time>
in France, or died somewhere in France.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:03</time>
There's a cenotaph to him there.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:05</time>
So his entire family plot has been moved there.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:10</time>
But the original graves of the first wife, the original graves of Stonewall

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:14</time>
Jackson and his infant daughter who who died young and his second wife.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:19</time>
Those original graves are still there.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:21</time>
So I show you those and then I'll show you the plot as it is today.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:27</time>
Now, they're gonna change the name to Stonewall Jackson

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:31</time>
Memorial Cemetery in 1949.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:33</time>
So that's almost 60 years after or 55 years after the statues put up.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:40</time>
I think because the statue, if you walk there, is the centerpiece of the cemetery.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:35:44</time>
is.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:35:44</time>
And it's a draw.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:35:45</time>
It's a public draw.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:45</time>
a public draw.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:46</time>
But then in 2020, they've changed it to Oak Grove.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:50</time>
And they said because the original Presbyterian church would meet under an

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:55</time>
oak there before they built the church.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:57</time>
So it's gone through three name changes now.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:36:00</time>
But it's Oak Grove Cemetery today in Lexington.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:36:03</time>
And when we were there, there were a bunch of lemons

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:36:07</time>
yeah, that was, that was interesting

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:36:08</time>
of his grave.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:36:10</time>
And there's like, again, urban legends that Stonewall Jackson

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:36:13</time>
always would be sucking on lemons.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:36:15</time>
He loved the taste of them.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:36:17</time>
He considered it a luxury.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:36:18</time>
He did it for health, for scurvy.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:36:21</time>
Uh, But historians have uncovered that he didn't like lemons

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:36:24</time>
any more than any other fruit.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:36:26</time>
And it was just one of those things, if you could get fruit during a battle, you

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:36:31</time>
would eat any fresh fruit you could get.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:36:34</time>
And so sometimes people would see him with lemons, but they saw him with

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:36:37</time>
oranges and cherries, and it would just happen to whatever fruit he could have.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:36:41</time>
So it wasn't like he liked lemons anymore, but it became an urban legend.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:36:46</time>
And you see lemon, they were, there were actually lemons.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:36:47</time>
That is

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:36:48</time>
It was actually Lemon's Head is Grave, and I had people ask me

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:36:50</time>
about the Lemon's Head is Grave.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:36:52</time>
I, and I, I joke about it in the video, and I will say the

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:36:56</time>
obvious, the statue does have two

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:36:58</time>
That's right That's right.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:37:00</time>
You do.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:37:00</time>
You do.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:37:01</time>
You do say that.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:37:02</time>
And we actually got some comments on that.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:37:03</time>
So it is a beautiful cemetery and there are actually some interesting.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:37:07</time>
graves that were there.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:37:09</time>
And if you're curious about some of those other kind of notable

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:37:11</time>
graves that were there, I encourage you to go watch our video.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:37:13</time>
And again, I'll link it in the show notes.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:37:15</time>
Or you can find it, I think, potentially at, at our website, talkwithhistory.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:37:19</time>
com for this episode.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:37:20</time>
So it was neat to go there cause Lexington is very, kind of

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:37:24</time>
really feels like old Virginia.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:37:26</time>
There's so much that's there, right?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:37:27</time>
VMI is there and, and all this stuff.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:37:30</time>
And it was just, you Neat because it's not it's not one of the more

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:37:35</time>
touristy parts of Virginia Because it's not on the coast, right?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:37:39</time>
So it's it's a few hours inland.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:37:42</time>
It was just a beautiful city We kind of enjoyed ourselves there.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:37:45</time>
I think we were at that we were without the kids for this

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:37:47</time>
trip So it was a ton of fun

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:37:49</time>
I do want to say Lee's last words.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:37:52</time>
When Lee first found out that Stonewall Jackson's arm had been

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:37:56</time>
amputated, he sent a message saying, give General Jackson my affectionate

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:38:00</time>
regards, say to him, he's lost his left arm, but I have lost my right.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:38:05</time>
When he learns of Jackson's death, he said, I have lost my right arm

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:38:10</time>
and I'm bleeding at the heart.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:38:12</time>
interesting

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:38:13</time>
And that will be.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:38:15</time>
The result of this death is Lee will never find another general who can

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:38:20</time>
meet that demand like Jackson could.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:38:24</time>
He there really put to the test at Gettysburg, which will be about

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:38:28</time>
two months later after this death.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:38:31</time>
And we've talked about this before the, the South was doing so well.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:38:35</time>
They're advancing so far into the North.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:38:38</time>
They're stopped at Gettysburg.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:38:40</time>
People always wonder what would have been like if Lee had Jackson there, because

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:38:46</time>
his generals just can't hold the line and they just folly right and left.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:38:51</time>
And it's a, it's a.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:38:52</time>
Total Union victory and the South will retreat and continue to retreat

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:38:57</time>
for the last two years of the war.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:38:59</time>
So this is this is it when you think of the switch of the North of the South's

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:39:06</time>
momentum This is the moment and this is why we talk about Jackson This is why

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:39:10</time>
we want to know the truth about Jackson.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:39:12</time>
And this is why we covered him on Walk with History.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:39:14</time>
Anybody who studies any sort of military history knows

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:39:17</time>
that that leadership really does matter It really does matter.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:39:25</time>
Thank you for listening to the Talk With History podcast and please reach out

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:39:28</time>
to us at our website, talkwithhistory.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:39:30</time>
com.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:39:30</time>
But more importantly, if you know someone else that might enjoy this

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:39:33</time>
podcast, please share it with them.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:39:34</time>
And I really do want to emphasize that share this podcast because

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:39:38</time>
word of mouth is really the best way to get podcasts to grow.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:39:43</time>
Shoot them a text, tell them to look us up.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:39:45</time>
We rely on you, our community to grow, and we appreciate you all every day.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:39:49</time>
We'll talk to you next time.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:39:50</time>
Thank you

The Story