John Wayne's Grave | Hidden Historic Travel & Hollywood Legacy - Talk With History

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The Wyoming wind whipped my face, carrying grip in the tank's sweat.

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Dust devils danced between the towering pines, a constant reminder of the

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unforgiving landscape we were filming in.

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Out on the dusty plain, hundreds of extras milled about their covered wagons and

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makeshift town for the next few weeks.

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This was Hollywood, 1930.

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Miles from any soundstage and I, green horn grip on my first

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big picture, The Big Trail.

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Back then, John Wayne wasn't Duke yet.

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He was Duke Morrison, a scrappy kid with a jawline that could cut glass, and a

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voice that rumbled like distant thunder.

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He wasn't a star, not yet.

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He was our lead, Breck Coleman, a Wrangler thug.

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Thrust into the role of a lifetime.

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I first saw him during a stunt rehearsal.

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The horse went crazy, rearing up and threatening to throw its rider.

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The stunt double bailed, but the duke, all raw nerve and determination, clung on.

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The beast bucked and twisted, a whirlwind of brown hide and flying hooves.

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My breath caught my throat.

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I'm sure he wasn't gone.

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But then, with a yank of the reins and a mighty shout, Duke

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brought the horse under control.

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Through erupted in cheers, the sound echoing through the valley, there

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was a fire in his eyes that day, a hunger that promised greatness.

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The days on set were a blur of long hours and back breaking work.

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We hauled equipment over treacherous terrain, battling the elements

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and the ever present mosquitoes.

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Duke was always there, leading by example.

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He'd haul cables with the best of us, a quip always on his lips.

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Even when exhaustion painted lines across his face, he had a way of

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making you feel like you were part of something bigger, a grand adventure

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unfolding before our very eyes.

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One evening, huddled around a crackling campfire, guitars strumming under

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a sky ablaze with stars, Duke sang, his voice rough edged but filled

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with a quiet strength, resonated with a yearning for something more.

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We all felt it.

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The dreamers and the drifters who made up this traveling

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circus we called a film crew.

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We were chasing our own piece of the American dream, out

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here on the edge of nowhere.

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The Big Trail wasn't a box office success, but for those of us who

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were there, it was a baptism by fire.

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And John Wayne?

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He wasn't Duke yet, but the seeds of that persona were firmly planted.

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The grit, the determination, the twinkle in his eye.

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They all shone through, years later when I saw him on the silver screen,

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a steely glint in his steely glaze.

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I saw not a movie star, but the young wrangler who tamed a wild horse and stole

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our hearts under the endless Wyoming sky.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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Welcome to Talk with History.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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I'm your host, Scott, here with my wife and historian, Jen.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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hello.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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On this.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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podcast, we give you insights to our history inspired world travels,

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YouTube channel journey and examine history through deeper conversations

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with the curious, the explorers and the history lovers out there.

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Now, Jen, this is our second podcast back from an extended break and

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we had asked some folks to, to write in saying, podcast episode?

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Because we do love hearing that.

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And I actually got an email from Hannah.

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She had actually written us back in mid May, but it ended up in my spam folder.

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So sorry about that, Hannah, but I found it.

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I replied back, but she said, Hey, I love both your channel and your podcast.

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My favorite podcast is probably the women of bull run.

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I like how not only men joined the fight, but also women as well.

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So I thought that was, that was really cool because that was a fun.

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Kind of place for us to visit when we went to manassas We went to

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the battle of bull run and we gave a different perspective on that.

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So thank you Hannah for the email.

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We really enjoy and appreciate that feedback We also got I want to give

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Kenneth a shout out He actually donated to the channel over at walk with history gift

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shop comm so if you ever go over there you can see t shirts, we have Different things

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that we have on on the gift shop There's some really fun stuff that we've created

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over there and some I think especially the history or die one and and if you

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donate, then we'll give you a shout out.

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So thank you, Kenneth.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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Thank you, Kenneth.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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All right.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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So Jen, as our listeners just heard in like the act one kind of vignette that

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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I had, we're talking about John Wayne.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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He started his career really in 1930, right?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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He had been, that was one of his first movies.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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yes.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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And if I remember correctly, he had been a USC football player,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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hurt his knee, and basically just started working in the movie industry.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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Yeah, I mean, he's in USC, so right in Hollywood, right?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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And so what, think of it as a working studio.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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It's still working studios today, right?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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So if you want to get a job being a laborer, a carpenter, a grip,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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someone who's pulling scenes and pulling materials for scenes,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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that's how he started background.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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He even uses the name Duke Morrison, so he's not even using

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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the moniker John Wayne yet.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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And that's how he gets his start.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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And he starts with John Ford, who will become a huge mentor to him and director

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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that he works with throughout his career.

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And it's John Ford who takes a notice of him.

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He won't use him again.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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as a main character until stagecoach is probably where he gets his

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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big notoriety as the Ringo kid.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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But yes, so John Wayne is getting his roots started in Hollywood and

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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we're Californians.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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I, I would consider you a Californian.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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I'm not a Californian, but I married you in California and I had, we had

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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all of our children in California.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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You are a true Californian.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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And you're born in SoCal and raised in SoCal.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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Your great grandfather was part of the movie industry.

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He was a lead prop master.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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We needed to get back out there to make more videos.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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We just haven't had a chance to get out to Hollywood

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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but you, you recently got a chance and that's why we're talking about John

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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Wayne today because we just, we just made a video from his gravesite and we'll get

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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into that here in just a little bit, but you got the opportunity to go out there.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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So what kind of, what came up that gave you this opportunity?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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I was selected as a pinup for vets calendar girl.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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So this calendar is it's a nonprofit to support VA hospitals

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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and veteran medical care.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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And every girl in the calendar is a veteran.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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And I was selected to be a part of the calendar this year.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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So if you need to Get your calendar.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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It's pinupforvets.

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com, but yeah, and like I said, it's a nonprofit.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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You buy the calendar.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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I'm supposed to be Miss October because I'm the only Navy veteran

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they have in the whole calendar.

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October is the Navy birth month.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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And so I flew out to L.

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A.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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to do this photo shoot, two days in Manhattan Beach.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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And you and I, we have big wish lists of things we want

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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to film and do for the channel.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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And we keep them in our back Burner if we ever make it out to here,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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if we ever make it out to here.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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And I would say these, these wishlist items are based on time.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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If how much time if I have a day in LA, I'm doing this.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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If I have two days in LA, I'm doing this.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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If I have a week in LA, I'm going to hit this.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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This was like, I have one day in LA.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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So our two big things for one day in LA was John Wayne and Jimmy Stewart.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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So I'm so excited that I got to see John

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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you've talked about that for quite some time, because if you, if you've

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listened to the podcast for any, any period of time, or if you've watched our

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channel for any period of time, we've done Jimmy Stewart, many Jimmy Stewart videos.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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We've done many John Wayne videos, so you know that they are

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favorites here on the channel.

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So for you to get out there, and the funny thing is.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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In the video, right?

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And I will leave a link to the video and the podcast show notes in the video.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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You I don't remember if it's John Wayne or Jimmy Stewart, but there's

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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so many famous people that are buried not far from either of these men.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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I would say that Jimmy, Jimmy Stewart is in a

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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more famous celebrity area.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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John Wayne is more South.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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He's in Corona del Mar, but a very famous person has just been buried

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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in that cemetery, Kobe Bryant.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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Oh, really?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:54</time>
So now John Wayne shares the same cemetery, but Kobe

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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Oh, I didn't know that.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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So that has made his cemetery.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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Now, he's there with a lot of like B list actors, and I hit one

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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actress that is important to me.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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there, but it's a lot of like old Hollywood, but now that Kobe Bryant is

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
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there, I notice there's a lot of people visiting the cemetery to visit him.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
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Oh, interesting.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:16</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:16</time>
And the Jimmy Stewart one, that'll be our next podcast episode.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:19</time>
There's famous people there.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:20</time>
I think you said Marilyn Monroe, Clark Gable.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:23</time>
So all like the, the uber famous, Hollywood figure.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:28</time>
We'll talk a little bit more about also one of the things that you talked

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:31</time>
about because it was Memorial Day, but why don't you take us through a little

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:36</time>
bit of John Wayne's career and then how his involvement with the military

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:39</time>
before we get to the end of his career.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:42</time>
Sure.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:45</time>
John Wayne, he starts out as he's born Marion Robert Morrison, May 26th, 19.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:51</time>
07 in Winterset, Iowa.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:54</time>
And we go there.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:55</time>
We go to the house that he's born in.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:58</time>
His museum is right there beside it.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:00</time>
We spent the day in Winterset, Iowa.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:02</time>
It's a great little town

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:10:04</time>
the beaten path.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:05</time>
off the beaten path.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:06</time>
I did not know.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:06</time>
It's also where the Bridges of Madison County is set and filmed as well.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:11</time>
But it's really a cute little iconic town that he is from.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:15</time>
But quickly he moves to the Hollywood era to California.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:19</time>
So his father was a pharmacist, I guess for lack of a

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:10:24</time>
owned a drugstore.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:25</time>
owned a drugstore.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:26</time>
And so they moved to California in 1916.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:30</time>
So he's not even 10 years old.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:32</time>
And he sets up a pharmacy in Glendale.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:36</time>
So it's it's really he goes to Glendale High School.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:39</time>
And that's what he does.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:41</time>
He gets the scholarship to USC.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:42</time>
So he really is someone I would think who grew up in California.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:10:47</time>
call himself a Californian.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:50</time>
And again, he calls himself Duke because his dog's name was

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:10:55</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:10:55</time>
His childhood dog, his childhood dog's name was, was, was Duke.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:10:58</time>
And I think if I remember correctly, he was always walking by like a fire

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:02</time>
station where he lived in the, in the fireman would, would say that they're

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:06</time>
like, Oh, look, there's, there's there's a little Duke or something like that.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:09</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:10</time>
He's playing for USC football.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:12</time>
He gets injured.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:13</time>
He injures his knee, but he also has a shoulder injury, so he has two injuries,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:16</time>
which as a football player, common injuries, also career ending injuries.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:21</time>
So that's what happens to him.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:23</time>
And as a favor to the coach, he had given like one of the silent film

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:28</time>
stars tickets to a USC game that movie star hires Wayne as a prop boy.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:34</time>
So it's like it, the whole, uSC movie industry is helping each other

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:39</time>
I mean, he's, he's living in that, that area.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:41</time>
You're near the industry.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:43</time>
It naturally, if he's not playing football, he's got to earn his way.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:46</time>
He's got to work.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:46</time>
And that's where he starts working.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:48</time>
Exactly.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:48</time>
So he starts as a prop boy, as an extra, like I said, and he's just big, right?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:55</time>
I mean, imagine he's playing football.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:56</time>
he was incredibly handsome when he was young.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:59</time>
I found some pictures that I hadn't seen before and I was like, good

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:02</time>
grief, no wonder they spotted this

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:04</time>
Exactly.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:04</time>
Like he's just a big guy.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:06</time>
He has a presence about him.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:08</time>
He's good looking.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:09</time>
He has a strong personality.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:10</time>
face, strong chin.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:12</time>
And so he starts to work as a minor uncredited roles in a lot

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:17</time>
of movies in the 1920s, just small bit parts and small bit movies.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:21</time>
It's while he's working there that he starts with that Duke Morrison

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:25</time>
name because Marion Morrison, it's like, Oh, it's Marion.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:30</time>
Not a, not a, not a manly name, name back then.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:32</time>
I mean, and I think it was the studio executives that kind of tried to

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:35</time>
get him to, to get a stage name like

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:37</time>
Exactly.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:38</time>
But it was in 1930 when he was moving studio furniture as a prop

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:43</time>
boy that he was cast as his first starring role in The Big Trail.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:48</time>
And that's when, for a screen name, he suggested Anthony, the director suggested

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:55</time>
Anthony Wayne after the Revolutionary War General, Mad Anthony Wayne.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:00</time>
But it's a, it's a, They felt it sounded too Italian, so suggested John Wayne.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:07</time>
John is very basic, and so that's how he gets the name John Wayne.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:12</time>
it's so interesting that someone as famous as him now, you

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:16</time>
look back on that and that's, it was just like a, yeah, we need something

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:19</time>
Yeah, and the story is that John Wayne wasn't even

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:23</time>
present for that conversation.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:26</time>
It was a conversation between the, the studio chief and the director.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:30</time>
That's wild.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:31</time>
So it was like, let's, let's change his name.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:33</time>
So it's more marketable.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:35</time>
And so he's John Wayne just took it.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:36</time>
His pay was raised to a hundred dollars a week when he got that name.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:41</time>
So big trail was, it was a minor success.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:44</time>
And again, he's just larger than life and he's really portraying

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:51</time>
this, this this big character.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:53</time>
And I think people are getting the sense he's in these big sceneries,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:57</time>
these big Western sceneries.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:59</time>
He feels this the screen with his presence with this big background behind

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:04</time>
And he just stands out, right?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:06</time>
I remember seeing clips from that movie when I was putting one of our videos

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:11</time>
together, and he just stands out, even as, even though obviously he was one of

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:16</time>
the main characters in the movie, so that was intentional by the filmmaker's part,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:20</time>
he's just a little bit different, right?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:22</time>
And he's so young and he's so much young.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:24</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:24</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:25</time>
Bigger than a lot of the men that are around him acting and it's a lot of times

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:30</time>
especially hollywood nowadays You get actors that are shorter You can kind of

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:33</time>
if you if you look for it, you can tell when they're putting you know shorter male

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:37</time>
actors with taller female female actresses on books or kind of The way they film it

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:42</time>
the way they don't have to worry about that with john wayne like He's athletic.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:46</time>
He's good looking.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:47</time>
He's big.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:48</time>
He just he fits the part

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:51</time>
And I think He did a lot of Westerns in the 1930s here

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:55</time>
and you're going to see like this kind of built his Western persona.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:58</time>
A lot of actors can get lost in a huge background, right?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:02</time>
The majestic background of Monument Valley or the majestic background of a ranch.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:08</time>
And John Wayne doesn't ever get lost in the background.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:11</time>
He fills the background like he's part of it.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:15</time>
And I think.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:17</time>
As your eye, as you're watching a film, you gravitate towards him.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:21</time>
He doesn't just become part of the scenery.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:23</time>
And I think people notice that right away.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:25</time>
His next major role will be in 1939.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:27</time>
So this came out in 1930, this first big trail.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:30</time>
And then so nine years later, he's been making Westerns the whole time,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:33</time>
building his leading man persona.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:35</time>
But it was 1939.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:37</time>
That is, John Ford stagecoach where he plays the Ringo kid and

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:43</time>
the kind of like the camera zero ends on him I even hear directors.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:49</time>
I think it was Spielberg or Scorsese who is like that moment for them

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:54</time>
was Understanding movie magic right how you're taking this character

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:58</time>
and making him larger than life John Wayne was that persona.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:03</time>
And again, this is John Ford.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:05</time>
This is the beginning of a beautiful friendship, right?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:07</time>
Which they will have for the rest of their lives, making movies together.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:11</time>
But John Wayne is just really becoming the movie star, John

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:15</time>
Yeah, the hero the classic hero of of lore per se

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:20</time>
So then we're going to get, it's 1939, America's

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:24</time>
going to enter World War II.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:30</time>
what we talk about a little bit in this video, we open up with John Wayne service,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:36</time>
and we talked about that because one of the reasons I think that you

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:40</time>
addressed it when you went To make the video at the at the cemeteries because

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:45</time>
we I mean we get all sorts of comments across all of our videos But there's

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:48</time>
some John Wayne haters out there And in a lot of times when we post either

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:53</time>
like a short or real, One of the videos the haters will jump in and they'll

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:57</time>
say John Wayne was a draft dodger John Wayne never served, and they and

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:02</time>
they're you know, denigrating him now.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:04</time>
Those are much Those are few and far between, to be honest for John Wayne,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:08</time>
the vast majority of the comments we get people love watching, watching John Wayne

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:12</time>
and watching the stuff about John Wayne.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:14</time>
But, but there's kind of a, a little bit of a perception of that.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:17</time>
And that's something that you wanted to address while you were there.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:21</time>
Cause you were there on Memorial Day.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:22</time>
I was there on Memorial Day.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:24</time>
I do believe John Wayne did a service to his country in the

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:29</time>
way he portrays military people.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:31</time>
He's portrayed military.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:33</time>
I can't even.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:34</time>
say how many times he's portrayed a veteran or someone in the military in the

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:38</time>
movies and the storytelling he has done from a person of military experience has

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:45</time>
really given a voice to so many military people and given them like a identity

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:53</time>
and the way people see them and he's really painted them in a great picture.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:57</time>
He's done it for every war.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:59</time>
I would say.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:00</time>
it.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:00</time>
Sands of Iwo Jima, right?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:02</time>
I mean, there's all all sorts of,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:03</time>
portraying civil war.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:05</time>
He's portraying World War Two.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:07</time>
He's portraying Vietnam like he's, he's hitting the wars.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:11</time>
He's doing Alamo like he's really hitting all these people of service.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:15</time>
Now, he didn't serve.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:17</time>
He tried to serve.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:19</time>
And there were a couple reasons why he didn't serve.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:21</time>
And it always was a very sore point for John Wayne because he

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:29</time>
felt like he should have served.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:31</time>
He, I think he felt guilty that he didn't serve and, but he was already rejected.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:38</time>
He's what they call a four F.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:39</time>
So when you got put into the draft, you're given a rating based on your physical

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:46</time>
standard and your financial standard, your emotional standards, all these things.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:51</time>
about if, if you're, a little bit younger in our audience, if

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:54</time>
you ever watched Captain America, the very first one you remember, he

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:57</time>
keeps get like his before he, they.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:00</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:00</time>
Pump them up.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:19:01</time>
Pump him up or whatever like that.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:19:03</time>
Everybody's getting one a, which is the one that you've accepted in draft.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:19:06</time>
And then you can go, but he, Steve Rogers, captain America before he's

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:19:10</time>
captain America can't because he's tiny.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:19:13</time>
He's too small.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:19:14</time>
He's got flat feet.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:19:14</time>
He's got all these, these issues.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:16</time>
so there's certain things the military is looking for.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:18</time>
You have to meet a height and weight standard.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:20</time>
That's what he's not hitting in Captain America.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:22</time>
He doesn't, he's, it's too low weight, which what does that mean?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:26</time>
Too low weight to die for your country?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:27</time>
No, too low weight to carry the gear needed day in, day out to be a soldier.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:32</time>
You can't.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:33</time>
physically do it.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:35</time>
Now, John Wayne's 4F was for a couple of reasons.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:39</time>
His injuries came back to haunt him, this shoulder and the knee.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:42</time>
So already you're at a physical disability.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:45</time>
They don't want to put you in military gear when you already

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:49</time>
have these physical ailments that you can't be a hundred percent.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:52</time>
And he has, four children at the time.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:19:55</time>
I think age was a thing too, right?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:57</time>
And age was a thing.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:58</time>
Age you could get waivers for, but the four kids and then taking a military pay.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:04</time>
So the huge pay cut would put him in financial distress.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:08</time>
if you think about it by the time that America's entering

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:11</time>
the war, he's in his mid thirties.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:14</time>
I'm, if I'm remembering correctly, so he's,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:16</time>
at the time of Pearl

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:17</time>
So he, he's 34, probably, 35 by the time he's trying

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:20</time>
to, see if he can sign up.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:22</time>
So that's, that's a bit further along than most men who were joining in the war.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:27</time>
Now, not all of them, but he is farther along in life.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:30</time>
Four kids, this huge career, already injured.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:34</time>
So he had all these, all these things already stacked up against

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:37</time>
So usually they want to do 18 to 30 to 34.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:41</time>
And it's not too old if you're an officer, but remember John Wayne didn't finish USC.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:47</time>
So when we talk about enlisted in officers, you have to have a

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:50</time>
college degree to be an officer.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:52</time>
So John Wayne would have to enlist.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:53</time>
So enlistments 18 to 30 because they want the kids right out of

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:57</time>
college or right out of high school.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:59</time>
And then his family status, he's classified, it's, it's three a,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:02</time>
when you have a family determined, which is deferment, which means

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:05</time>
you have too many children.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:07</time>
Your pay that you would make as a E one would put you in a

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:12</time>
financial distress, hardship.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:15</time>
Now he tries to enlist, he tries to serve under John Ford,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:19</time>
the director who he loves.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:21</time>
John Ford serves in the military in a capacity where some

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:24</time>
other directors did as well.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:25</time>
Frank Capra.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:26</time>
They.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:27</time>
They took footage of the war.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:28</time>
They made propaganda movies, but they also just were documenting

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:32</time>
the war and they did a very good

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:34</time>
John Ford was at Midway.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:35</time>
I mean, they go right into the heat of the battle to, to capture it all.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:40</time>
And so John Wayne tried to,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:52</time>
So he tried but unfortunately, he never got to serve.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:55</time>
He stayed home.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:55</time>
He made movies at home.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:57</time>
But it wasn't for lack of trying.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:59</time>
It wasn't for lack of want.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:01</time>
It wasn't like he was a dog.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:04</time>
People say a draft Dodger.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:05</time>
He wasn't any of those things.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:07</time>
He unfortunately had age working against him, injury working against

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:11</time>
him, and he had too many kids.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:13</time>
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:15</time>
And I appreciated you addressing that because we've talked

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:17</time>
about John Wayne so much.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:19</time>
That was, that's one of the few things that we've never really

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:21</time>
had an opportunity to talk about.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:23</time>
And I think that was appropriate on a day like Memorial Day.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:26</time>
Where we're able to address a lot of those, those comments

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:29</time>
that we get in our videos.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:30</time>
So it was, it was fun to, for you, for you to get there and

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:35</time>
to be able to talk about that.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:37</time>
And then for us today to talk a little bit more about his, his career.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:40</time>
I want people to know John Wayne toured US hospitals during the war.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:44</time>
John Wayne did a lot for the USO during the war.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:46</time>
John Wayne continued to be an advocate for the United States

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:50</time>
military up until his death.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:52</time>
He was not.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:53</time>
He was not a draft dodger.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:55</time>
It wasn't like he didn't agree with the war.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:57</time>
It wasn't like he didn't agree with fighting.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:59</time>
He was all in on all of those things.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:01</time>
Unfortunately, he just couldn't get in and the archives, the US archives

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:05</time>
have found applications from John Wayne trying to get in and every time they

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:10</time>
just were ultimately unsuccessful.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:13</time>
So he did his best and I give him a lot of credit, but I honor his service.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:19</time>
Because I leave a flag for him because his portrayal, which is what we love.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:23</time>
Actors for is their portrayal of telling the story of military men.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:28</time>
And to me, he just does that so well.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:31</time>
And so many movies I love my favorite movie, right?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:35</time>
The searchers, like he's playing a civil war veteran so he just does

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:39</time>
a really great job in my opinion of portraying service members on screen.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:44</time>
And I think he should be honored for that service that he gave to his country.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:23:50</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:23:50</time>
I thought it was, it was neat to be able to talk about that.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:23:53</time>
And I was looking forward to talking about.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:23:56</time>
the ways in which he served because not everybody can serve and us both

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:00</time>
of us you having, veteran me still serving, we get people all the time

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:05</time>
that tell us whether we interview them on the podcast, or we talk to them out

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:08</time>
in town, they'll say, I always wanted to serve, I always wish I would have.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:12</time>
And by a certain time, I was too late too late in life.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:14</time>
And there's people out there, you can still support your country, you can

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:17</time>
still support Service in a different way.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:20</time>
So I thought that was great to be able to talk about now Let's let's

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:24</time>
go past that into kind of really what is like more the peak and then the

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:29</time>
kind of golden years Of his career.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:31</time>
So

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:37</time>
Monument Valley stretched before me, its stark beauty both familiar and alien.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:43</time>
Here I was again, dust clinging to my sweat dampened brow, years

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:47</time>
after the Wyoming winds had whipped my face on the big trail.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:51</time>
This time, 1956, I was a seasoned set supervisor on John

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:55</time>
Ford's latest, The Searchers.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:59</time>
John Wayne, or Duke as everyone still affectionately called

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:25:02</time>
him, wasn't the same young buck with a twinkling eye I remember.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:25:06</time>
The years had etched canyons into my heart.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:25:08</time>
His face mirroring the ones around us.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:25:10</time>
But the fire that burned in him back then hadn't entirely died.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:25:14</time>
It had transformed a quiet intensity simmer beneath the surface.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:25:19</time>
This film felt different.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:25:21</time>
There was a rawness to it, a complexity that went beyond the usual

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:25:25</time>
good versus bad tropes of Westerns.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:25:28</time>
Director John Ford pushed Duke demanding a depth I hadn't seen before.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:25:33</time>
The character, Ethan Edwards, a Civil War veteran searching for his

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:25:35</time>
kidnapped niece, was a man haunted by prejudice and a thirst for vengeance.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:25:41</time>
Don't call me uncle.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:25:43</time>
I ain't your uncle.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:25:45</time>
Yes, sir.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:25:46</time>
Don't need to call me sir, either.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:25:49</time>
What do you want me to call you?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:25:50</time>
Name's Ethan.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:25:52</time>
It was a far cry from clear cut heroes Duke usually portrayed.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:25:57</time>
During filming, there were long stretches of silence broken only by the creak of

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:01</time>
saddles and the whistle of the wind.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:03</time>
In those moments, I'd steal a glance at Duke.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:06</time>
His face, usually in open book, was a mask of conflicted emotions.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:10</time>
Anger.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:10</time>
Regret.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:12</time>
A flicker of something that might have been love.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:14</time>
It was a performance unlike anything I'd witnessed.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:17</time>
A raw vulnerability that resonated deeply.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:20</time>
Why don't you finish the job?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:31</time>
What good did that do you?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:33</time>
By what you preach nothin.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:36</time>
We all knew Ford was a visionary director, but on this set, there

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:40</time>
was a different kind of electricity.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:42</time>
There was a sense that we were creating something special,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:44</time>
something that transcended the genre.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:46</time>
Little did we know, the Searchers would become a landmark project.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:49</time>
Film forever changing the Western landscape.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:53</time>
It would spark debate, challenge audiences, and force them to confront

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:57</time>
the dark corners of the American ethos.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:03</time>
As filming wrapped a strange melancholy hung in the air.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:07</time>
We poured our heart and souls into this project, and part of us knew

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:10</time>
it wouldn't be easily replicated.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:13</time>
As I shook Duke's hand, his grip firm, despite the years I saw a

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:17</time>
flicker of that old fire in his eyes.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:19</time>
But this time it was tinged with a quiet satisfaction, a sense of a job well done.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:25</time>
He might not have known it then, but the searchers would become

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:28</time>
a defining moment in his career.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:31</time>
A testament to his ability to push beyond the limitations of the Western hero and

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:36</time>
deliver a performance that resonated with audiences for generations to come.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:40</time>
It was a far cry from the young wrangler I met in Wyoming, but it was the

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:44</time>
culmination of a remarkable journey, a journey I was privileged to witness.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:56</time>
I mean he really starts hitting his his true movie stardom stride I'd

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:28:02</time>
say, you know in in those 40s 50s and then 60s is you know on the back end

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:08</time>
Yeah, I would say like we both feel like he made his two best movies.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:13</time>
Now again, this is just our idea of his best.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:16</time>
If you want to see our top 10 John Wayne and why we consider them the top 10

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:21</time>
please find the walk with history episode.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:28:24</time>
find on our channel.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:28:25</time>
I'll put it in the show notes as well

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:26</time>
But I think he hits the stride like in his forties.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:30</time>
When you think of The Quiet Man and The Searchers, they're made within five years

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:35</time>
of each other where he's like 45 to 49.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:38</time>
And I think that's where he's really hitting his stride.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:41</time>
Quiet Man is 1952 and The Searchers is 1956.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:46</time>
And again, these are John Ford movies, but I think this is when he's really

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:51</time>
hitting his leading man status.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:54</time>
He's being able to pull an entire movie on his own.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:28:59</time>
his name on the movie poster, his name on the billboard, is The Draw.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:05</time>
It's the draw a hundred percent so much so that he's going to ride

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:09</time>
that out for his career, right?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:11</time>
And so when you watch like the longest day He's just one of the many actors

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:15</time>
but John Wayne is listed on the line.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:17</time>
I'm gonna watch that John Wayne's

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:29:18</time>
And I think he, he directed The Alamo.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:29:20</time>
Is that right?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:29:21</time>
And I remember reading when we visited the John Wayne Museum in Winterset,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:29:25</time>
it said the studio executives only allowed him to direct The Alamo.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:29:30</time>
If he would star in it and he would put his name as one of the leading roles.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:29:37</time>
That's the only way they would let him do it because they knew

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:29:40</time>
his name on a movie brought people

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:43</time>
He's bankable.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:44</time>
He's a leading Star, he's a leading man.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:47</time>
I think even today he's in the top five leading men of all time So

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:51</time>
he's just a very bankable actor.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:53</time>
He made a lot of movies He turned them out quickly and he was he was

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:57</time>
really great now You get the criticism that John Wayne doesn't really change

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:02</time>
character too much from movie to movie He's playing basically the same kind

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:07</time>
of hard man Who has been, run through the ringer and is doing some kind of

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:13</time>
he's reaching some kind of arc, right?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:30:16</time>
And, and, and I think there's some truth to that.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:30:19</time>
Absolutely.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:30:19</time>
But that's also the era, the era was Westerns.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:30:22</time>
The era was the era of big leading men that went in and won the fight

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:30:27</time>
almost every single time, but then as his career progressed, You actually

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:30:32</time>
saw him Change that character whether it's in the cowboys or whether it's

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:30:39</time>
in true grit or whether it's in you know his last movie the shootist Where

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:30:45</time>
he's he's playing that character that?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:30:48</time>
Is vulnerable at times in the movie and that's what really draws you into

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:30:54</time>
the character And he didn't do that quite as much early in his career

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:30:58</time>
But then he's he's still playing these big I can win any fight and

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:02</time>
do anything But then there's these moments of true vulnerability, right?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:06</time>
I think he was only killed in a movie a couple times, right?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:09</time>
The cowboys is one of the most famous ones and bruce dern it followed him around

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:13</time>
for forever but when you get into You To the shootest and he's he's sitting there

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:21</time>
talking with jimmy stewart and it's the end of his career and Jimmy stewart is

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:28</time>
giving him the news that nobody wants to hear which you will hear the kind of

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:33</time>
The vignette here in just a little bit because that's what I I put in there

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:38</time>
But that's him playing almost himself, him, not John Wayne, not the Duke, but

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:44</time>
Marian Morrison at the end of his time through, through his movie career,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:50</time>
admitting that vulnerability and admitting ah, it's just like you, he almost, he

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:55</time>
doesn't say it, but you want him to say, I thought it was going to live forever.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:31:58</time>
And that I think he captures really well towards the end of his career.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:32:03</time>
And that's one of the things that I really, I really love about him.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:32:06</time>
Enjoyed and I enjoy talking about John Wayne because You see that true arc from

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:32:13</time>
the strapping young 20 year old who can do anything to Now he's in his Probably he

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:32:20</time>
was probably 70 something when he made the Shootist um you know, maybe late 60s and

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:26</time>
dies at 72.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:28</time>
I think he made the shootest in 77, so he was 70.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:32</time>
And I think that again, you see that like in the Cowboys and you're seeing

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:36</time>
that later in life, he's choosing these roles where he can be a little

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:40</time>
bit more vulnerable and show you that vulnerability and do it in a way that

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:44</time>
really makes you understand and believe that the human nature of people, even

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:51</time>
the human nature of vulnerability.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:52</time>
people we think is of heroes.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:54</time>
And that I think is the greatest example he gives to the military

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:00</time>
and in his service to his country is showing that anyone who is willing

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:06</time>
to serve their country as a hero.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:09</time>
And I think John Wayne does a good job of showing that with these really

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:14</time>
vulnerable characters who really do these noble things, even though they are

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:20</time>
have a flawed life or they don't live the best picturesque life in the end.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:25</time>
In the shoot is he's even proud.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:27</time>
I think in the end to give that advice, leave that advice on like kind

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:32</time>
of mentor a young Rod, Ron Howard.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:33:36</time>
yeah his character

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:37</time>
I think he's almost mentoring a young, a country is

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:40</time>
he's mentoring the people because we've grown up with John Wayne.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:44</time>
He took us through the war.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:46</time>
He took us through a couple of Vietnam.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:48</time>
He took us through history.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:50</time>
We've learned a lot about history from John Wayne and he's taken us, he's taken

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:54</time>
us through really the, the birth of cinema to what cinema ended up being.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:59</time>
being when he left.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:00</time>
And so that's like a lot of growing.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:04</time>
And I think he wanted to hand it off with this understanding that

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:08</time>
I did my best, but I'm only human.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:34:11</time>
Yeah, he had an amazing 40 year career, 40 plus year career.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:34:15</time>
He's just one of the all time greats.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:24</time>
So to be able to visit his grave was always a bucket list thing for me.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:31</time>
I knew it was in Corona Delmar that's Orange County, California.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:35</time>
That's South of LA.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:37</time>
I knew it was on the water.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:38</time>
John Wayne was big.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:39</time>
He had his, his, boat.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:42</time>
Though the wild goose was like an old minesweeper that he would

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:45</time>
take to Catalina all the time.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:48</time>
And so I know he wanted to kind of like see the water.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:51</time>
And so if you sit at his grave, you can see the Pacific

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:55</time>
Ocean, which is very beautiful.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:34:58</time>
Pacific View Memorial Park, where he's buried, is, was open in 1958.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:03</time>
So John Wayne dies in 1979, so really 20 years it's been open.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:08</time>
When I visited his grave, it's a very unassuming grave.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:11</time>
A lot of them are flat graves.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:12</time>
Usually it makes it easier for them for maintenance of the

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:15</time>
lawn, but it has a cowboy on it.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:18</time>
It looks like Monument Valley in the background, and it has his

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:21</time>
name, his moniker, John Wayne, does not have his birth name.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:26</time>
There's no Marian Morrison on there.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:28</time>
The dates of the the year dates of birth and death, 1907, 1979, and then a quote

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:35</time>
that has been attributed to John Wayne from an interview that he gave that

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:39</time>
tomorrow always comes in perfect and clean and beautiful and ready for what you,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:45</time>
it's up to you for what you do with it, which I really always appreciated that

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:49</time>
what he's telling you is it's up to you.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:52</time>
Your dreams are yours.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:54</time>
Your aspirations are yours and everybody gets the same amount of time and what

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:35:59</time>
they do with it is completely up to them.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:36:02</time>
And so I think it's very much like a dream big quote and that is who John Wayne was.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:36:09</time>
I love these.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:36:11</time>
huge actors who came from nothing.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:36:14</time>
John Wayne's one of them.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:36:15</time>
Jimmy Stewart, no family.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:36:18</time>
There was no one in the industry.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:36:19</time>
No one gave him, there was no nepotism, right?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:36:22</time>
There was no one giving them a handout.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:36:24</time>
Like they just did it and they wrote the book along the way.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:36:29</time>
And John Wayne is really one of them.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:36:30</time>
And so it was just a real honor for me to be there.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:36:34</time>
I did say at the time that I don't think any other family members are around him.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:36:38</time>
Since then, I've looked up his daughter, his first wife.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:36:42</time>
They're close by.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:36:44</time>
They're not beside him, but they're, they're close by where he is.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:36:49</time>
So he's not alone there.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:36:51</time>
He was married twice and he has seven kids.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:36:55</time>
I think he's had two, three children who have since passed

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:36:59</time>
and I think two of them are there.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:37:02</time>
Not on the same row, but close by.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:37:04</time>
So he's not alone.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:37:05</time>
He does have some family close by, but it is a beautiful location and it

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:37:09</time>
was just a real honor to visit him.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:37:20</time>
It's 1977, and the flickering light of the television casts a mosaic

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:37:25</time>
of shadows in my living room walls.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:37:27</time>
The shoot is splayed on, John Wayne's face filling the screen.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:37:31</time>
How'd you ever kill so many men?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:37:32</time>
I think I've lived most of my life in the wild country.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:37:37</time>
You set a code of laws to live by.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:37:40</time>
What laws?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:37:42</time>
I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:37:47</time>
I don't do these things, to other people.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:37:49</time>
I require the same from them.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:37:52</time>
It wasn't the same.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:37:53</time>
Duke I remember from Monument Valley all those years ago.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:37:57</time>
Age had finally etched its story onto his features, but his eyes still held that

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:38:01</time>
glint a defiance against the inevitable.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:38:04</time>
A pang of grief hit me.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:38:06</time>
John Wayne, the Duke, the larger than life figure who dominated

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:38:09</time>
westerns for decades was gone.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:38:12</time>
News of his death had hit me hard, a reminder of my own

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:38:15</time>
mortality, my own fading memories.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:38:19</time>
As I watched him on screen, a gunslinger, facing down his final

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:38:22</time>
showdown, memories flooded back.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:38:25</time>
The Wyoming wind whipping at our faces, the camaraderie on the set of The Big

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:38:29</time>
Trail, the quiet intensity he brought to Ethan Edwards and the searchers, a

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:38:34</time>
role that, I now realized, laid bare the complexities of the American West.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:38:40</time>
John Wayne.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:38:41</time>
He wasn't just an actor, he was an icon.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:38:44</time>
He embodied a certain kind of American spirit, rugged, self reliant, a

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:38:49</time>
man of action who stood his ground.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:38:51</time>
Some might scoff, call it simplistic, but it resonated with audiences.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:38:56</time>
He was the hero who rode in, restored order, and rode off into the sunset,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:39:00</time>
a comforting fantasy in a world that often felt chaotic and unpredictable.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:39:07</time>
The Shootist felt different.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:39:08</time>
It was a poignant farewell, a reflection on a fading era.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:39:13</time>
John Wayne, the aging gunslinger, knew his time was up, but he

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:39:16</time>
faced his end with dignity.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:39:18</time>
A final act of defiance against the inevitable.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:39:22</time>
Oh, what can you do?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:39:24</time>
There's just very little I can do.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:39:34</time>
I, uh, When the pain gets too bad, I can give you something.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:39:42</time>
What you're trying to tell me, is it a

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:39:50</time>
Damn.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:39:52</time>
I'm sorry, Books.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:39:53</time>
You told me I was strong as an ox.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:40:02</time>
Well, even an ox dies.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:40:09</time>
The movie ended, the credits rolling in silence.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:40:13</time>
I sat there.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:40:15</time>
The quiet hum of the television filling the room.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:40:19</time>
John Wayne was gone, but the legacy he left behind would endure.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:40:23</time>
He'd captured a time, a spirit, and etched it into the silver screen.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:40:29</time>
He was a reminder of simpler times, a storyteller who wove tales of the

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:40:33</time>
Wild West, a man who, For a fleeting moment, allowed us to believe in heroes.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:40:39</time>
As I switched off the TV, the image of a young John Wayne full of fire

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:40:44</time>
and dreams flickered in my mind, a bittersweet smile touched my lips.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:40:50</time>
It was a long road from the Wyoming plains to Monument Valley, and

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:40:53</time>
finally to this quiet farewell.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:40:56</time>
But one thing remains certain, John Wayne, the Duke, would forever be a part.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:41:01</time>
of American cinema, a testament to a bygone era and the enduring

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:41:05</time>
power of a well told story.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:41:20</time>
Thank you for listening to the Talk With History podcast and please reach out

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:41:23</time>
to us at our website talkwithhistory.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:41:24</time>
com.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:41:25</time>
But more importantly, if you know someone else that might enjoy this

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:41:27</time>
podcast, please share it with them.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:41:30</time>
Especially if you think today's topic on John Wayne would interest a friend, shoot

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:41:34</time>
him a text and tell him to look us up.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:41:35</time>
We rely on you, our community to grow, and we appreciate you all every day.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:41:40</time>
We'll talk to you next time.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:41:41</time>
Thank you.

The Story