John Wayne's Birthplace | Historic Travel to Winterset, Iowa - Talk With History

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:00</time>
I was thinking.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:00:01</time>
It's dangerous.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:02</time>
It's dangerous.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:04</time>
Have I fall I don't know.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:13</time>
Because I know more about history than at least all the topics

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:18</time>
that we've than your average

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:00:21</time>
History nerd husband.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:24</time>
adjacent?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:25</time>
So would I be, like, history...

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:26</time>
history nerd friendly?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:28</time>
Like, what, what, what, like, what category

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:00:31</time>
Well, it's not like it's almost like you're

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:33</time>
I'm trying to claim.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:34</time>
it?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:34</time>
Yeah, I married into

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:00:35</time>
You married into

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:36</time>
married into

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:00:37</time>
So what's that called?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:38</time>
nerddom.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:39</time>
I don't know.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:40</time>
I was, I was wondering that because, I mean, that's what we're doing.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:44</time>
That's second career for me, for you.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:48</time>
It's going to be, it's going to be history

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:00:50</time>
History nerd in law?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:52</time>
History of law.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:53</time>
I don't know.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:54</time>
For those listening I don't know if you guys ever have a

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:00:56</time>
good thought reach out to me,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:08</time>
Welcome to Talk With I'm your host, Scott, here with my wife and historian, Jen.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:01:13</time>
podcast, we give

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:14</time>
On this podcast, we give you insights to our history inspired world

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:17</time>
travels, YouTube channel journey, and examine history through deeper

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:21</time>
conversations with the curious, Before we jump into the episode, I do want to

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:29</time>
ask for it's the best way, it's one of the best And it's kind of social proof

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:37</time>
for the podcast as people stumble across.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:40</time>
If you're listening on Apple podcasts and most people do, those reviews

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:43</time>
really do help even if you just go in real quick, drop us five stars and say,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:47</time>
Hey, Love history, love the show, or love this episode, or whatever it is.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:52</time>
It really is kind of social proof as people stumble across the podcast and

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:55</time>
they go in there and search for it.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:01:57</time>
And I don't think the History Channel does a lot of John Wayne topics,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:02:00</time>
Um, and I don't think they

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:01</time>
history period, so we're coming for you History Channel.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:04</time>
I haven't said that in a while.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:06</time>
But History Channel, you better watch out, because

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:02:10</time>
It's

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:11</time>
this stuff, that you and

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:02:14</time>
common for you, Jen's Gaines of history.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:22</time>
Today, we are embarking on a journey to explore the life and legacy

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:27</time>
of one of America's most iconic figures, the legendary John We're taking you on

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:33</time>
an adventure to Winterset, Iowa, where we visited the very house where Marian

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:37</time>
Morrison, the man who would later become John Wayne, entered this It's more than

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:43</time>
just a house, it's a window into the early years of a Hollywood We're going

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:48</time>
to unravel the story of John Wayne's life from his humble beginnings in Winterset

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:52</time>
to his transformation into the Duke and the enduring legacy he left on the

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:02:57</time>
silver We'll delve deep into the roots of this cinematic legend and explore

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:03:02</time>
his later family life and how his own kids ventured into So whether you're

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:03:07</time>
a fan of Westerns, a history buff, or just someone curious about the life

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:03:10</time>
of a true American icon, this episode promises to be a journey through time

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:03:15</time>
and cinema you won't want to miss.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:03:16</time>
Without further ado, let's step back in time and experience the life and

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:03:19</time>
times of John Wayne as we visit his birthplace home in Winterset, Iowa.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:03:30</time>
So Jen, this was, again, at the tail end of our western road trip, and this was

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:03:36</time>
a, a huge kind of thing for you to do.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:03:39</time>
This was, this is the one thing we did in Iowa as we were driving.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:03:42</time>
So let's talk a little bit about Winterset and then the birthplace of this cinematic

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:03:48</time>
Yeah, so you know, pretty much the start of Walk With History, I did a

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:03:53</time>
lot of John Wayne research and this was always a bucket list place for me to go

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:03:59</time>
because I grew up on John Wayne movies.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:01</time>
So I always wanted to see the John Wayne Museum and the John Wayne House.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:04:09</time>
This was always wanted to see the John Wayne Museum

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:04:12</time>
and the John Wayne House.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:04:18</time>
John Wayne Americana and, and history Americana.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:04:21</time>
And that was literally one of the things that inspired you

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:04:24</time>
to, to, to start the channel.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:26</time>
Yes,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:26</time>
because people were showing some things on YouTube, but they

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:29</time>
weren't really connecting it.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:31</time>
Like, why does this matter?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:32</time>
Or why, how does this impact us today?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:35</time>
How does John Wayne impact us today?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:37</time>
What is he left?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:38</time>
What is his legacy?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:39</time>
What is his Americana legacy?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:41</time>
What did we, you know?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:43</time>
We think a lot about the West because of John Wayne, he is the, the Western

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:50</time>
actor of the time, like I said, highest grossing film actor for three decades.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:04:55</time>
He presents us with the window into a lot of these different stories.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:01</time>
and brings them to life for us.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:03</time>
And you just think of John Wayne.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:05</time>
He is a movie star.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:08</time>
And you think of him with the swagger, with the star, with the

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:12</time>
gun, you know, in, in a shootout.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:15</time>
Like this is, you picture John Wayne as this man who is part of building America.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:20</time>
Now he didn't build it per se as the Westerners really did, but

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:05:25</time>
he's going to personify it and show it on the silver screen.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:05:29</time>
I just thought that was so neat that you, you called that out that

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:05:32</time>
we were standing in the birthplace of the person inspired us to, to be

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:05:37</time>
there and to be filming to begin with.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:05:39</time>
So I, I just thought that was really neat.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:05:41</time>
And we talked briefly about last week's episode, was more about his movie career.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:05:45</time>
We're going to focus more on family life about kind of where set being off

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:05:49</time>
kind of in the middle of Iowa off the beaten path a little bit easy to find.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:05:54</time>
The, the movie museum is great, and if you guys are curious about

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:05:56</time>
that, I'd encourage you to listen to the episode just before this.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:05:59</time>
We talk about kind of more his movie career and the museum itself, but we're

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:06:02</time>
going to focus more on his personal

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:10</time>
Sure.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:11</time>
So the house is kind of connected with the museum.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:13</time>
If you want to visit the museum.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:15</time>
And then go to the house, it's right next door.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:19</time>
And his house is at 220 South 2nd Street in Winterset, Iowa.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:22</time>
And he was born there May 26th, 1907.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:27</time>
And it really hasn't changed a lot since then.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:29</time>
It's a four bedroom house, or four bedroom, four room house.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:33</time>
One bedroom, one bedroom, one kitchen, one dining room, one living room.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:38</time>
That's it.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:39</time>
And so in the local newspaper reported four days after his birth

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:45</time>
that he weighed 13 pounds at birth.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:48</time>
And so when we're in that house and I show you the room where he was born,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:52</time>
I just comment on a 13 pound baby.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:06:56</time>
I just can't even imagine amount of emotions that might have been

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:01</time>
coming out of that room at the time.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:02</time>
were there's a lot of screaming going on in this

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:04</time>
room and it's cool because they actually had the newspaper from

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:08</time>
And So

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:09</time>
You know that one of the things that I noticed in the announcement

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:12</time>
of was just below that was an article about how popular for whatever, for

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:24</time>
Yeah, it was, it was probably coming back around, but it was just neat

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:27</time>
to see some of the other things.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:29</time>
Sure.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:29</time>
In the newspaper right there.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:30</time>
So again, the, the video that we're, that we made already that's the, show notes.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:36</time>
So if you guys wanna watch that, you can, but it was kind of neat

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:39</time>
to see what else was going on.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:07:40</time>
It's 1907,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:41</time>
1907.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:42</time>
So Marian, it's so funny, his name is, is Feminine.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:46</time>
When you really think about it.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:47</time>
Marian Robert Morrison and he, his middle name will be changed to Michael

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:53</time>
because they have a second boy in 1911 and they name him Michael.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:07:59</time>
So are they, I mean, they name him Robert.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:02</time>
So they change his middle name to Michael.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:05</time>
Now, there's no legal papers ever found to show that they did this.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:10</time>
I think they just kind of like, as a family, did it.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:12</time>
It was like they had a second boy and they really liked the name

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:16</time>
Robert, but they had given it to him.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:18</time>
So they're like, well, we're going to kind of take it back and give you Michael

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:21</time>
and we're going to call him Robert.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:08:23</time>
how interesting.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:08:24</time>
And, and that's funny because one of the things that I, I thought I actually

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:08:28</time>
could have done a little bit better in we actually show a lot of childhood pictures.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:08:32</time>
Mm-Hmm.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:08:32</time>
kind of on the walls and they're, they're, those are hard to find in Google.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:08:35</time>
Like a lot of those don't, don't pop up all the time.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:08:38</time>
So it was neat to kind of see them on, on, on the wall, but I,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:08:40</time>
I, I wish I would've pointed out.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:08:42</time>
It'd been more clear about who John Wayne was because he was the older

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:45</time>
older brother.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:46</time>
It's obvious.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:08:46</time>
it's obvious if you're looking at the pictures, but I would have liked to

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:08:49</time>
have called those out more because his younger brother was always there with

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:54</time>
Yeah, his, he's four years older and his brother will pass

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:57</time>
away nine years before him.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:08:59</time>
His brother did serve in the U.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:00</time>
S.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:00</time>
Navy.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:01</time>
So they have a dog named Duke and that is where that nickname

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:08</time>
comes from for John Wayne.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:10</time>
And so that.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:12</time>
And we'll get more into this like his some of his wives would call him Duke

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:16</time>
because that is the more Familiar name because John Wayne is a stage

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:20</time>
name and even his children have the last name Morrison children don't

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:26</time>
have the last name Wayne now they if they are in the movies like Patrick

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:29</time>
Wayne That is again their stage name.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:33</time>
Yes, but their legal names are Morrison.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:36</time>
Yeah, and I had read about how he kind of got the nickname as,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:40</time>
as Duke because, you his dog, right.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:44</time>
But his dog would follow him everywhere.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:46</time>
And so they always kind of just became synonymous.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:48</time>
I look, there's the Duke,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:49</time>
Yeah, Little Duke.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:50</time>
Yep.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:51</time>
Mm hmm.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:52</time>
and so I just thought that was neat.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:53</time>
I mean, it's very Indiana Jones ask, right.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:09:56</time>
Because Indiana Jones is his nickname is like, because the dog's name

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:09:59</time>
Is Indiana.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:00</time>
Mm hmm.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:10:01</time>
thought that that was

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:03</time>
So, Wayne's father, Clyde, was the son of American Civil War veteran Marion

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:08</time>
Mitchell Morrison, which is why I like to always Say that because my maiden

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:12</time>
name was Mitchell and then his mother Mary Molly Brown was from Nebraska but

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:20</time>
there is a lot of Scottish ancestry there and Irish ancestry there and they come

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:27</time>
from the different isles there where their family has located from but he

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:31</time>
was raised Presbyterian and What I see a lot of is his father's a pharmacist and

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:38</time>
they move for his job And so they're in they don't initially they're not from

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:44</time>
Winterset, Iowa They're there because the pharmacy is there and that's where

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:47</time>
the two boys are born and it's shortly after Roberts born that they will move

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:52</time>
to California again for the pharmacy job.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:10:55</time>
Yeah, so he lived in Winterset for what?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:10:58</time>
Yeah, like seven years And then they will move to California and

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:02</time>
they'll settle in Glendale in 1916?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:06</time>
so that's, I mean, that's my neck of the

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:07</time>
Yes.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:07</time>
That was Mm-Hmm.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:07</time>
grew up in that kind of greater

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:10</time>
Mm-Hmm.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:11</time>
.And again, his father will work as a pharmacist and he's gonna go to Glendale

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:15</time>
High School and he's gonna do sports and academics, and he doesn't quite have

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:22</time>
the grades to go to the Naval Academy.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:24</time>
He applies.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:25</time>
Yes, but he's not accepted because of poor grades, so he goes to USC instead.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:31</time>
That's right, Trojans.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:32</time>
It's

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:32</time>
It's so funny.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:33</time>
So while he's at USC, he's six foot four and a half and he plays on the

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:39</time>
football team, but he's injured and it's that injury, it's a collarbone injury.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:44</time>
They say what

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:46</time>
I

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:46</time>
don't know, but I'm sure someone would

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:48</time>
someone will know.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:11:50</time>
But he

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:11:56</time>
But he didn't injure himself playing football.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:00</time>
He injured himself body

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:01</time>
surfing

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:02</time>
but he never wanted to tell his football coach that.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:04</time>
academic

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:05</time>
But he loses his academic scholarship, but when he loses

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:07</time>
his scholarship, he has to leave the university and that's when he

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:09</time>
starts working for the movies and starts doing the prop stuff and the

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:14</time>
carpentry stuff and moving stuff and catches the eye of John Ford.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:18</time>
So we talked about his movie career.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:22</time>
Last time this is more about his family.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:24</time>
So I want to stress in 1933 He gets married for the

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:28</time>
first time at 33 years old.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:31</time>
Yeah, and before we go on to the,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:12:32</time>
I mean, he's 26

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:34</time>
and before we go on to the end of the marriage thing too, you know, Just

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:38</time>
so, so people know when you, especially in that the greater, Hollywood, Los Angeles

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:43</time>
area, it's very common for look for work.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:50</time>
And because Hollywood is such a big industry out there,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:52</time>
there's work to be had, right?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:54</time>
And USC is right there too far from the Hollywood area and the studios,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:12:59</time>
you know, Glendale, you know, and so it's not surprising that if he's

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:03</time>
looking for work, Did that kind of.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:05</time>
Sure.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:06</time>
Sure, I mean, even if you go to the LA area today, people

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:09</time>
always ask, are you in the industry?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:12</time>
And you're like, what?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:13</time>
A.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:14</time>
area today, people always ask, are you in the industry?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:22</time>
Well, you live in the area,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:28</time>
And Hollywood industry, especially at the time in the 1920s, 1930s,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:32</time>
it's a big, like you said, industry of California before California

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:37</time>
becomes more tech, what it is today.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:39</time>
It is just an agricultural and Hollywood industry at the time.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:13:43</time>
I mean, Disneyland was the Orange Grove.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:45</time>
Yeah, and that's why I wanted to kind of call that out again,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:50</time>
you would think like, oh, maybe he was pursuing You know, being

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:54</time>
an actor and acting and trying.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:56</time>
That was his way in.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:58</time>
He probably wasn't.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:13:59</time>
He probably initially was just looking for work.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:01</time>
Because that is, that's actually more common than people realize.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:04</time>
And, and I'm more familiar with that.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:06</time>
Again, having grown up in that area and known people that work, different parts

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:11</time>
of that industry and actually having know, again, for, for those, if this is

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:15</time>
your first time listening to the show, my great grandfather was a prop you know, so

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:21</time>
he built some big sets and was in charge of building sets for some very, very big

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:25</time>
Rear window

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:26</time>
window,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:27</time>
10 commandments

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:28</time>
10 commandments with Charlton

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:29</time>
greatest show on

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:30</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:30</time>
So, so it was, it's very common out in that area just to kind of set the

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:14:35</time>
stage, give context to people who might not be from, you know, the West

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:40</time>
sure.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:46</time>
so his first wife Josephine is the daughter of a Diplomat,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:54</time>
but she is of Spanish descent.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:14:55</time>
So he's, he's a diplomat from Spain and he meets her and they get married in 1933.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:01</time>
They have four children

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:15:02</time>
Oh, wow.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:03</time>
and these are the four Michael Wayne Mary, Tony Wayne,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:09</time>
Patrick Wayne, Melinda Wayne.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:11</time>
When you see

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:14</time>
Quiet,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:14</time>
Man and you see the four kids sitting in the wagon, those are his children.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:15:18</time>
Oh, I didn't know

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:19</time>
Those are his four kids.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:21</time>
So Patrick Wayne will go on to have a pretty big movie

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:15:24</time>
Yeah, I mean, and you've seen him in

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:26</time>
Oh, McClintock.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:27</time>
He's been in a lot of movies with him.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:29</time>
He'll be in She Wore a Yellow Ribbon.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:31</time>
He's in McClintock.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:32</time>
He's in Big Jake.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:34</time>
So he has a pretty big career.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:36</time>
So he will have four children from his first marriage.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:39</time>
He subsequently will get divorced and marry Esperanza.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:43</time>
She's from Latin America.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:46</time>
He probably wasn't likely had an affair with her.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:49</time>
He marries her really on the eve of his divorce from his first wife.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:53</time>
Now they never have children.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:55</time>
They're only married for, I think like four years.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:15:58</time>
Yeah, it was very steamy, very volatile No, they're actually

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:03</time>
married for eight years.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:04</time>
She accuses him of a lot of affairs, some are true, some are not.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:09</time>
She's greeted him at the door a couple times with a loaded gun.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:12</time>
So, you can just imagine.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:17</time>
Yeah, I think he likes this kind of, yeah, the flair.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:16:23</time>
lot of Yeah, I

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:24</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:24</time>
So his third wife, again, married on the eve of divorce,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:28</time>
Pilar, will be his last wife.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:31</time>
They will never divorce, although they will separate.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:33</time>
And he has three children with her.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:35</time>
So you hear Ayesa Wayne, who's still alive today, John Ethan Wayne, who is named

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:41</time>
after his character from The Searchers.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:44</time>
And he's also in the movie Big Jake, plays his grandson, even though he's the son.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:49</time>
And then Marissa Wayne.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:50</time>
So Ayesa Wayne and Marissa Wayne.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:51</time>
Very.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:52</time>
Similar sounding names, but they're all alive today.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:55</time>
Only Patrick Wayne is alive of the first four.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:16:58</time>
And then his three younger ones are still alive

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:01</time>
I don't think that was, that was something I've never really thought

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:04</time>
too much about John Wayne's personal

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:06</time>
Mm hmm.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:07</time>
other than I knew he had some

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:17:09</time>
Sure.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:10</time>
know, Patrick but it's one of those things it's interesting when you learn

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:15</time>
a little bit more about these historical you know, whether they're in the actors

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:21</time>
or kind of, ex presidents or whoever it is, and you learn about like Wait, what

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:27</time>
do you mean first Oh, there was two.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:30</time>
No, no, no, there was three.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:32</time>
It gives you a little bit more kind of more of the picture about the person

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:38</time>
than necessarily the legend that is whoever you're talking about, right?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:43</time>
And in this case, it's John Wayne.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:45</time>
And, and, you know, not, I'm not trying to bring him down at all, it's just

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:50</time>
interesting, you know, as you learn more about these people who really most

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:55</time>
people know and they're, they're very kind of have an emotional attachment to

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:17:59</time>
John Wayne and his movies and because of what he represented and what those

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:04</time>
movies often and the themes often represented, it's always interesting

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:09</time>
to learn a little bit more about the person that's behind the curtain.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:13</time>
Well, I would say John Wayne is, for lack of better

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:17</time>
words, a typical movie star.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:21</time>
Of the time.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:22</time>
Because these men of the time, if you think of Clark Gable, if you're thinking

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:25</time>
of, Jimmy Stewart is an anomaly.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:28</time>
He will stay married to his one and only wife for his whole life.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:31</time>
But there are some who they do have affairs.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:33</time>
They do have different women and it is kind of more acceptable and almost

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:18:39</time>
like encouraged of leading men because it makes this this draw about them.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:46</time>
of the time, too.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:48</time>
I, you know, I don't know if it would be encouraged, but it's not as easily

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:18:55</time>
compared to things like know, it's, you know, if, if somebody suspected

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:19:00</time>
something, well, it's hard to, harder to catch someone in the act.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:19:04</time>
There's no, not everybody has their cell phone in their pocket a camera, right?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:19:09</time>
And then to actually publish something and, you know, Hollywood industry

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:19:12</time>
at the time had a lot of power.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:19:14</time>
So, that's interesting to kind of, again,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:18</time>
But he's a big family man.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:20</time>
And they even talk about that in the museum.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:23</time>
So big car to get the seven children in.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:26</time>
He has a Ship or boat called I would say a small ship called the wild

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:31</time>
goose that he ports in Long Beach.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:34</time>
And he likes to take it out to Catalina and big family guy

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:39</time>
likes to have his kids with him.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:40</time>
There's lots of pictures of him selling, debating Christmases

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:43</time>
with all seven children or Easter's with all seven children.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:47</time>
He built the John Wayne tennis club in Newport beach in 1973.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:53</time>
He just was very big into having.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:56</time>
These places to be with his family.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:19:58</time>
It is now the Palisades Tennis Club.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:00</time>
Club.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:01</time>
So, he's just, he is this guy who really does love his family around him.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:06</time>
Now, even though him and Pilar are going to separate in 1973, and he

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:11</time>
lives to 1979, they will never divorce.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:15</time>
And she is very adamant to let people know they never divorced.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:18</time>
Now, he will go on to have a relationship with his personal assistant.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:23</time>
And she writes a book, I think called John Wayne and Me, and

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:25</time>
I actually read that book.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:27</time>
And if you, and then they became boyfriend, girlfriend, and she,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:34</time>
she took care of him basically towards the end of his life.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:36</time>
And if you ever hear what John Wayne's last words were.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:39</time>
It's, of course I know who you are.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:41</time>
You're my girl.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:43</time>
And he was, he said it to her.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:44</time>
So

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:45</time>
So he was like, she had come in to check on him in the, in the hospital room.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:50</time>
And she said, do you know who I am?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:51</time>
And he goes, of course I know who you are.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:53</time>
You're my girl.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:20:54</time>
So that's his last words were to

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:56</time>
words were to her.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:56</time>
Were to her.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:20:57</time>
Yeah, and that's actually, it's funny because I actually made a

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:00</time>
short about that amount of traffic.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:21:04</time>
I don't think I realized

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:05</time>
Yeah, it was his former secretary, Pat Stacey, and she published a

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:09</time>
book called Duke, A Love Story.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:12</time>
And I read that book.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:13</time>
It's, it's fine.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:15</time>
It's good, you know, but it just gives you the background into the end of his life.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:23</time>
He also, his hair began to thin in the 1940s.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:27</time>
And he would wear a hairpiece.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:29</time>
So

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:29</time>
you can see this a lot like Frank Sinatra wore a hairpiece.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:33</time>
And different people of the time, again, I think Gene Kelly wore a hairpiece.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:38</time>
And so, there would be pictures of him without his hairpiece on, like,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:42</time>
I think he went to Gary Cooper's funeral without the hairpiece so

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:44</time>
you could see his thinning hair.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:46</time>
And then when he was at Harvard, he had gone there, they do the those awards,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:51</time>
what are they called, the Lampoon Awards, where they kind of, the Razzies.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:21:55</time>
aNd they were making fun of him for some role and John Wayne took

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:00</time>
pride in accepting the award.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:01</time>
He showed up in a tank and it was really great.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:04</time>
He really like embodied you know, being a part of this persona.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:08</time>
And they asked him about.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:10</time>
The hair is a true your toupee is real hair and he responded.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:14</time>
Well, sir.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:15</time>
That's real hair.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:16</time>
Not mine, but real hair.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:22:18</time>
Oh, so he, so he wasn't afraid to

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:20</time>
No, no, he actually and they say a lot that Duke's personality and sense of

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:25</time>
humor is very close to what people would see in the big screen when he was joking

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:30</time>
is really that's kind of who he was.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:32</time>
So, yeah, towards the end of his life, he will get cancer

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:36</time>
and he's the one who they think.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:38</time>
coined the term the big C.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:40</time>
So that's what he would call it.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:41</time>
The big C.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:42</time>
He had lung cancer, and then he had one of his lungs removed and

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:46</time>
two ribs removed right before he shot The Sons of Katie Elder.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:49</time>
And we talked about this.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:51</time>
He wanted to do his own stunts in The Sons of Katie Elder.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:53</time>
And if you watch that movie, he's kind of dragged through like a river.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:57</time>
And he ends up getting, not a river, like a stream, and

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:22:59</time>
he ends up getting pneumonia.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:01</time>
And with the one lung, he was very close to being close to death there,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:05</time>
but he was so adamant that he could still do all these stunts that he really

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:11</time>
put his life in jeopardy during that.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:14</time>
Then towards the end of his life in 1979, the cancer had come back and

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:18</time>
he had volunteered to do a study, a volunteer study, and he had checked

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:23</time>
himself into the hospital there in L.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:25</time>
A.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:26</time>
for the study.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:27</time>
And he ends up passing away there.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:29</time>
And his, he actually passes away in June of 1979, actually June 11th,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:34</time>
1979, our daughter's birthday.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:23:36</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:37</time>
And but he will appear at the Oscars that year.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:40</time>
So that's his last public appearance.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:41</time>
So in earlier in the year, you, that's the last time you will see John Wayne.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:46</time>
And he's a lot different.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:48</time>
He's a lot thinner.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:50</time>
And for a six foot four and a half man, who was always pretty.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:23:54</time>
Big and to see him then it was just a, a, a change but he, you know,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:01</time>
he ends up, you know, leaving the wild goose, docked in Newport beach.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:06</time>
It's listed on the U S registry of historic places.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:09</time>
There's a lot of pictures of him with that boat or ship.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:14</time>
He really did enjoy

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:14</time>
there was, there was a lot in the, movie part of things.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:18</time>
They, they show a lot of, a lot of pictures of him on, on the boat.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:24</time>
That's kind of how I always pictured him as well as as someone, not

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:28</time>
only, you know, the movie star, but when not making out there making

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:33</time>
movies, like you said, a family man who's out there doing stuff, right?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:38</time>
He's out there fishing.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:39</time>
He's out there.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:40</time>
You know, hunting doing all those kinds of things.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:44</time>
I mean, I, that's why I kind of find it amusing that he hurt his

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:46</time>
knee while he was in college body

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:24:48</time>
in college

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:49</time>
Right?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:49</time>
Because here's a, here's a guy just like anything at the time, like, you

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:52</time>
know, in the, in that era, you're not sitting around watching TV all the time.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:24:56</time>
You're, you're out there doing stuff and that's kind of, that's who he was

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:25:00</time>
and, and he really did embody that.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:06</time>
There's been some controversy around John Wayne.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:09</time>
The Playboy interview is probably the biggest one where he was interviewed

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:13</time>
for Playboy 1971 and he was talking in support of Vietnam and he made it very

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:18</time>
clear that he was in support of Vietnam.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:20</time>
He also talked about he believed in white supremacy.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:26</time>
And he says, I believe in white supremacy until the blacks are educated

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:30</time>
to the point of responsibility.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:32</time>
And so he felt, and I don't know exactly how he felt, but what he says

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:37</time>
here and how I interpret it is that it's a white person's responsibility

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:43</time>
to educate and bring up the, the people who have been oppressed.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:51</time>
And he.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:55</time>
almost feels like he believes until, until people can be to the point of

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:25:59</time>
being educated and to hand it over That the white supremacy is more like white

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:06</time>
Responsibility is what I read from this and I'm not trying to make excuses for

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:10</time>
him, but that's how I'm reading his

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:26:12</time>
words

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:13</time>
of the things, right, as we kind of joked about in the beginning,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:17</time>
I'm not the history guy, but I've married into the history world.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:21</time>
And one of the things that I've seen, you know, from some of these historic

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:28</time>
know, like John, like the John Waynes and, and like some others, you know,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:31</time>
that, that are much more controversial.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:33</time>
A lot of times, Again, I'll say the way that I interpret it from what I

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:38</time>
see and what they say or what they're trying to is they don't necessarily have

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:43</time>
the vocabulary that we have developed, however many years later today.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:49</time>
I'd say, you know, society today is a lot better educated when it comes

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:54</time>
to talking about race and talking about, you know, past enslavement and

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:26:58</time>
kind of, know, those things evolve.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:01</time>
I mean, we even joke about Who is it that you visited when you were

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:04</time>
out in Mississippi, Emmett Till?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:06</time>
Till, oh my, Miss Heron?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:09</time>
Miss Heron.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:10</time>
Mm hmm.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:10</time>
right?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:10</time>
And so, people use the language that they grew up and were taught

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:17</time>
and You kind of really have to take the see what they right?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:24</time>
And again, unless they say, unless they write down somewhere or they

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:27</time>
say how they feel, you kind of have to interpret a little bit.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:30</time>
But again, a lot of times they just don't have the language.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:34</time>
That we would have, right?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:35</time>
Take John Wayne and transport him 50 years into the future to today.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:40</time>
And he may have said that in a much more, by today's today's through, in a

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:47</time>
much more socially acceptable manner.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:49</time>
Right?

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:50</time>
Again, you and I are very much interpreting here.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:27:53</time>
But you have to remember that.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:55</time>
You

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:55</time>
have to remember that.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:27:55</time>
And so I always look for people said this and what did they do, right?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:01</time>
And so John Wayne on the set of The Searchers, if you think of the American

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:05</time>
Indian woman on The Searchers who plays the bride of the boy, right?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:11</time>
She was, John Wayne found her crying on set and he was like,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:14</time>
what are you upset about?

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:15</time>
And she goes, I'm going to miss my son's graduation from high school.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:19</time>
John Wayne shut down the set and flew her back to LA so she

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:23</time>
could attend his graduation.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:25</time>
So he, I don't think And again, I, I think, like you said, people don't have

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:31</time>
the words in the 1970s, even today people are still looking for the right way to

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:35</time>
express themselves with clear words, because really finding the right word

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:40</time>
for a feeling is a difficult thing to do.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:44</time>
I think with John Wayne, I think his heart is in the right place for me

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:48</time>
when I base it on his actions than what he's trying to say or interpret

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:53</time>
or in one interview, one time.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:28:56</time>
And this is what Patrick Wayne kind of gets into after this after this

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:00</time>
interview resurfaces again, and in 2019 people want to change the John

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:04</time>
Wayne airport and his son defends him saying it would be an injustice to

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:09</time>
judge someone based on an interview that's being taken out of context.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:29:13</time>
and, and that's what you and I really try hard to do is paint the

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:29:18</time>
picture and give you the context, you the listener that's listening to

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:29:21</time>
this We try to give you the context and we try to frame it in such a way.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:29:27</time>
That we're not laying in one way or the other, but we, we, we try to

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:29:31</time>
really understand what it was like back then and also identify the lens

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:29:36</time>
that we view things through now.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:29:38</time>
If you can identify that, you're, you're going to understand history a lot better.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:29:43</time>
You're going to understand what these historic figures are saying in public,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:29:48</time>
in interviews, in whatever letters they write much better if you understand one.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:29:54</time>
The glasses that we look at things and two, the context

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:29:59</time>
And like I said, I like to tell you what people said, I also

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:01</time>
like to tell you what people did.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:03</time>
Again, you can make up your mind of how you feel about John Wayne, and you

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:07</time>
can tell us in the comments if how you feel about him, because I know people

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:11</time>
have different feelings about him.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:13</time>
But for the most part, what I want you to know and understand is as a historian,

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:18</time>
our job, and my job, when I talk to people like Miss Heron, who It was

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:24</time>
brought up in the times of Mississippi.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:25</time>
I want to understand where they're coming from.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:28</time>
Start to pose the questions and get in their mind.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:30</time>
And when you really start to change hearts, you really have to understand

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:35</time>
where someone's coming from.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:37</time>
And if you really want Change.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:40</time>
And if that's what we want in this world is to change people

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:43</time>
and use history as a catalyst.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:45</time>
So don't repeat history.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:48</time>
Don't do the same things as stories.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:49</time>
If we want to use history as a catalyst, then we really have to treat

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:53</time>
people with respect where they're at, understand where they're coming

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:30:57</time>
from and really empathize and then start to pull, ask questions and get.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:05</time>
change of heart if, if that's what we're looking for.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:09</time>
So again, as a historian, I, you know, and I love John Wayne.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:13</time>
I wanted to talk about his family, his love of his family, and I

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:16</time>
wanted to paint the picture.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:17</time>
Three wives, seven kids, and had this playboy interview, acted differently

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:23</time>
in real life, and part of his grave when he finally passes away.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:30</time>
July and June of 1979 he's buried at Pacific View Memorial Park and

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:37</time>
he has not an ornate tombstone.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:39</time>
We've talked about this before he's buried in the same Cemetery as

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:43</time>
Jimmy Stewart not far actually away from Jimmy Stewart flat tombstone.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:47</time>
Nothing even that's It sticks out out of the ground and it says tomorrow

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:52</time>
comes clean with no mistakes in it.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:55</time>
And we hope that we have learned something from yesterday to

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:31:59</time>
do our best for tomorrow.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:01</time>
And that is from the same interview.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:04</time>
So I'm just putting it out there.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:05</time>
That is what's on this tombstone.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:07</time>
That's the same interview.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:08</time>
And here I hear what I hear when I hear this is someone who is admits that

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:32:13</time>
they are still learning and not always

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:32:17</time>
Yeah.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:32:17</time>
And that's, that's incredibly important.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:32:20</time>
And again, we've seen that a couple of times.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:32:22</time>
We've talked about some controversial things.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:32:26</time>
Will say or do and, and later in life, they, you see their actions change

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:32:32</time>
that support, What you would assume is, is them learning and them accepting

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:32:38</time>
and coming what we today would So

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:32:49</time>
we've had the privilege of delving deep into the life and legacy of John Wayne,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:32:53</time>
right from the heart of Winterset, Iowa, where it all It's incredible how

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:32:58</time>
a small house in a quiet town can be the birthplace of a Hollywood legend.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:33:03</time>
As we've explored the life of John Wayne, we also uncovered the deep

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:33:06</time>
connections between his early years and the unforgettable characters portrayed

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:33:10</time>
on the We hope you've enjoyed this journey through time and cinema as

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:33:15</time>
we've enjoyed it bringing it to you.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:33:17</time>
If you found this episode as fascinating as we did, please take a moment to

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:33:20</time>
hit that subscribe button, leave a review, and share this episode with

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:33:24</time>
friends, family, and fellow . History.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:33:26</time>
and film And remember the John Wayne Birthplace Home in Winterset, Iowa is

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:33:30</time>
not just a It's a symbol and testament to the power of dreams, determination,

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:33:36</time>
and the enduring appeal of storytelling.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:33:39</time>
Thank you for listening to the Talk with History podcast.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:33:41</time>
If you know someone else that might enjoy this, again, please share it with them.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:33:44</time>
We rely on you, our community, to grow, and we appreciate you all every day.

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:33:49</time>
We'll talk to you next

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:50</time>
next time.

<cite>Jenn:</cite>
<time>00:33:50</time>
Thank

<cite>Scott:</cite>
<time>00:33:51</time>
you.

The Story