Hampton Roads History: Mary Louvestre's Civil War Spy Mission

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<p>Imagine you are living in Virginia.</p>
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<p>You were in a boarding house in the growing city of Norfolk with</p>
<p></p>
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<p>your spouse, and business is good with a large port so close.</p>
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<p>You get plenty of visitors day and night who come in after a long day of work at</p>
<p></p>
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<p>Gospel Shipyard, just across the waterway.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>I had workers.</p>
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<p>Tool maintainers and men of all trades walk through your doors.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>And recently you've been hearing about this strange ship that is</p>
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<p>supposed to be made of steel.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>Think of it, a ship made of metal.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>How would that even float?</p>
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<p>And it has cannons on it too.</p>
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<p>At least that's what those steel workers said last night.</p>
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<p>Anyways, imagine that, but gospel is a Confederate ship here.</p>
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<p>If they have a ship like that, could the union ever stand a chance to defeat it?</p>
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<p>In 1862, the war between the union and the Confederate states of</p>
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<p>America had been going on for a year.</p>
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<p>And this is exactly the situation that Mary Louvestre found herself in.</p>
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<p>Join us as we talk about Mary Louvestre, the Iron Cloud Spy</p>
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<p>that may have saved the union.</p>
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<p>Welcome to Top of History.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>I'm your host Scott here with my wife and historian Jen.</p>
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<p>Hello.</p>
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<p>On this podcast, we give you insights to our history inspired world travels</p>
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<p>with the curious, the explorers, and the history lovers out there.</p>
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<p>That's history newsletter.com.</p>
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<p>Now, Jen.</p>
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<p>Obviously we're talking about the video that just pop posted yesterday.</p>
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<p>Yeah.</p>
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<p>So, so talk a little bit about, set the stage for us on Mary Louvestre, who</p>
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<p>we're co we're calling the Ironclad Spy.</p>
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<p>So it's Women's History Month and we're kicking off Women's History Month.</p>
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<p>Yeah.</p>
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<p>With, uh, a Union Spy, and it's the beginning of the Civil War.</p>
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<p>It's 1861.</p>
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<p>and we have a woman of color living in Norfolk who is running the boarding house</p>
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<p>in Norfolk across the Elizabeth River.</p>
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<p>Right.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>across to the Gosport Shipyard, which today is the Norfolk Shipyard.</p>
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<p>And if you see in the video, I mean, there is naval ships actually being</p>
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<p>fixed and retrofitted and dry docked and all the things that happened</p>
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<p>to the Navy ships, um, in dock.</p>
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<p>And so, uh, it's a shipyard still in use today.</p>
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<p>But in April of 1861, it was undergoing a lot of changes because Virginia</p>
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<p>is gonna succeed from the union.</p>
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<p>That's right in on April 17th, 1861, and not even three days, April 20th, 1861.</p>
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<p>Uh, the union.</p>
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<p>Is pushed out of the gospel</p>
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<p>shipyard.</p>
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<p>The gospel shipyard.</p>
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<p>And that's, and that's one thing that I, I didn't realize because we've just been</p>
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<p>doing all these more civil war mm-hmm.</p>
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<p>kind of topics recently.</p>
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<p>We just did Fort Norfolk.</p>
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<p>And Fort Norfolk is not far away.</p>
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<p>No.</p>
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<p>And Fort Norfolk was union held the entire time.</p>
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<p>No, Monroe was held.</p>
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<p>That's what I meant for Fort Monroe.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>Fort Monroe.</p>
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<p>Right.</p>
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<p>It's, it means literally just.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>It's not far.</p>
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<p>Like driving wise.</p>
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<p>You could probably get from now today?</p>
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<p>Yes.</p>
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<p>From the shipyard over to Fort Monroe.</p>
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<p>What, maybe 20, 30 minutes?</p>
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<p>Yeah,</p>
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<p>definitely.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>But I would assume there's no bridge.</p>
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<p>In 1861.</p>
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<p>Yeah.</p>
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<p>Like there are today.</p>
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<p>Yep.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>And it's fortified as we show in the video, has a moat around</p>
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<p>it and a very small bridge</p>
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<p>to get across.</p>
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<p>But not, not long sale for ships at the time, not</p>
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<p>long sale for.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>And that's how people basically traveled.</p>
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<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>At the time they had a ferry.</p>
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<p>Yeah.</p>
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<p>Now Fort Norfolk, you did mention Fort Norfolk and that</p>
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<p>is another video we do as well.</p>
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<p>Uh, that was taken by the Confederacy.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>Right?</p>
<p></p>
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<p>And that was, that's actually even closer.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>Even closer.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>That's even closer cuz it's literally, it's almost like right</p>
<p></p>
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<p>across the river, basically.</p>
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<p>Mm-hmm.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>. Yes.</p>
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<p>Um, but Fort Monroe is, is a little bit further away, but it's not that far.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>Fort Monroe is closer basically to the ocean if it's kind of</p>
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<p>picturing in your head, which, it's kind of interesting cuz we're gonna</p>
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<p>talk more about Fort Monroe in, in a moment and how it's, it never.</p>
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<p>To the Confederacy, and it's in the southern part of Virginia,</p>
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<p>which is a Confederate state.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>I mean, it's where Technic, it's where the capital of the Confederacy is in Richmond.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>It's where Robert Lee is from.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>It is like a Confederate state, but you have Fort Monroe, kind of like in</p>
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<p>the southern part of it on the coast.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>That is always union</p>
<p></p>
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<p>health.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>It's funny, you know, even as we talk about it, , uh, what pops into</p>
<p></p>
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<p>my head is like, you ever play risk?</p>
<p></p>
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<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>Right.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>When you were a kid.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>Mm-hmm.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>and there's like, there's very key.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>Spots on the board Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>That you wanna hold.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>And for the union, Fort Monroe was one of those spots.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>I mean, that was like, they did everything they could to, to hang onto it.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>It was easily defendable.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>Absolutely.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>But they did everything they could.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>So we're, we're kind of, so we're going, we're, we're veering off here.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>But it's important to the story.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>It is.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>It's important.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>It's important to the story because where we are here in Norfolk Yes.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>You know, we basically, we kind of just get to go.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>Nowadays, downtown Norfolk to visit where Mary Louvestre used to live.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>So, and Mary Louvestre's gonna use Fort Monroe as part of her plan.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>So we'll get into that.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>April 17th, Virginia succeeds from the Union.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>April 20th, the Union Burns, God's Port shipyard.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>So nothing goes into the Confederates hands and the ship.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>The Merrimack is burned down to the waterline, and so</p>
<p></p>
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<p>the Confederacy takes over.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>God poured shipyard on April 21st, the next day, and they take that ship</p>
<p></p>
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<p>that is burned down to the waterline and start to reinforce it with iron.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>Metal, uh,</p>
<p></p>
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<p>plates, and we show a good picture, kind of like how they,</p>
<p></p>
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<p>how they did that.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>And they start to build up the CSS Virginia.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>So the first iron clat of the Confederacy, right across that waterway, which</p>
<p></p>
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<p>everyone is pretty much traveling by boat at this time because there's</p>
<p></p>
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<p>no bridges like we have today,</p>
<p></p>
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<p>right?</p>
<p></p>
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<p>They're taking ferries from the, from the shipyard sting</p>
<p></p>
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<p>back over to the boarding house.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>Boarding house right across the waterway.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>On in Norfolk is a boarding house owned by a free woman of color.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>Mary Louvestre, and you'll see her name as Tu Vestry.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
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<p>Um, and her maiden name is Ogilvy.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
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<p>And you'll see other things online that she was enslaved,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
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<p>but she was never enslaved.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
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<p>And this research was done by, um, some Norfolk librarians</p>
<p></p>
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<p>who were able to put together.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>Her mother and her father were free people of color, and they married,</p>
<p></p>
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<p>and Mary was their daughter.</p>
<p></p>
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<p>And if you remember, A child always becomes the status of the</p>
<p></p>
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<p>mother and a, a child of color.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
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<p>And since Mary's mother was free, Mary was free.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
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<p>And so she's born in 1812 and she's first registered as a, uh,</p>
<p></p>
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<p>free person of color in 1828.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
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<p>So she's 16 years old.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:07:53</time>
<p>So that's kind of like the time you registered</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:07:55</time>
<p>somebody.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:07:55</time>
<p>And one of the things that I appreciated about you kind of making this point</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:07:59</time>
<p>that she was free the whole time, which was, which was rare, but it was.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:08:04</time>
<p>Not so rare that it was completely uncommon.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:08:06</time>
<p>Yes.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:08:07</time>
<p>You know, you talk about the population then about a, you know what, 20, 25%</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:08:12</time>
<p>of the African Americans that were in living in the Norfolk area were free.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:08:17</time>
<p>Free.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:08:18</time>
<p>So you have about, it's 1840, 11,000 people living in Norfolk.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:08:22</time>
<p>40 per 43% are African American or black.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:08:26</time>
<p>Um, that's about half and of that population.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:08:30</time>
<p>22% are free.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:08:32</time>
<p>So one fourth are free.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:08:34</time>
<p>So that's about a thousand people.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:08:37</time>
<p>So it's not rare to be free, but it is.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:08:41</time>
<p>Very much you, you are under the social consciousness of your surroundings.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:08:48</time>
<p>You're living in a slave state, you're a person of color.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:08:51</time>
<p>Enslavement is, uh, predominantly is African American, so you always</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:08:56</time>
<p>have to carry your, your freedom, your certificate of freedom.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:08:59</time>
<p>That's why she's registered at 16 years old and you're always</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:09:03</time>
<p>carrying paperwork that proves.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:09:05</time>
<p>Freedom.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:09:06</time>
<p>And, and I think you even talked about, and it didn't make the video,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:09:09</time>
<p>it just, it didn't fit into the story she actually ended up buying mm-hmm.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:09:13</time>
<p>like a, the, essentially like a little boy.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:09:15</time>
<p>Yep.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:09:16</time>
<p>And kind of essentially she, she took him on kind of more as a, it</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:09:20</time>
<p>seemed like an act of kindness.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:09:22</time>
<p>Took him on, kind of raised him, and then gave him his freedom when he was a little</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:09:26</time>
<p>bit older that didn't make the video.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:09:27</time>
<p>But I thought that was an interesting point that you brought up.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:09:30</time>
<p>Um, even though it didn't make the, you know, my, my editor's</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:09:33</time>
<p>cut.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:09:33</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:09:34</time>
<p>So in 19, She does purchase a little boy, 10 year old boy from a local doctor.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:09:38</time>
<p>He is from the same area as her father.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:09:41</time>
<p>Her father is a French from the, uh, Caribbean Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:09:45</time>
<p>Area.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:09:45</time>
<p>And the little boy is the same, um, background.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:09:49</time>
<p>And so she feels very drawn to him and she, um, she purchases him and he</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:09:55</time>
<p>does stuff around the boarding house.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:09:56</time>
<p>And then she gives him his freedom when he turns 18.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:09:58</time>
<p>She probably did.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:09:59</time>
<p>I, you know, I, I conjured that, you know, he was, Abused in some way.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:10:04</time>
<p>Sure.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:10:04</time>
<p>And she wanted to offer,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:10:05</time>
<p>you know.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:10:06</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:10:06</time>
<p>I thought, I thought that was interesting.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:10:07</time>
<p>And it was just kind of an interesting piece of how it kind of builds the</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:10:11</time>
<p>character that is Mary Louvestre who did this very brave act.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:10:14</time>
<p>Yes.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:10:15</time>
<p>You know, that we're gonna discuss here in just a minute.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:10:17</time>
<p>And it speaks really to kind of her character and, and it may</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:10:20</time>
<p>explain kind of a piece of her</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:10:22</time>
<p>motivation.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:10:23</time>
<p>Sure.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:10:23</time>
<p>And you know, we give a lot of background of.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:10:27</time>
<p>Birth because her parents are free.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:10:30</time>
<p>Again, people of color who are free in a, in slave state, so they're</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:10:35</time>
<p>operating under those social norms.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:10:36</time>
<p>They have to be very strong.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:10:38</time>
<p>You, you have to be, yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:10:40</time>
<p>They're not even a choice.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:10:41</time>
<p>So then to raise children and stay in a slave state and, and make</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:10:47</time>
<p>a life there, she has to have.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:10:51</time>
<p>Some kind of, you know, strength and someone who is a risk taker</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:10:55</time>
<p>or someone who's very sure of themselves in both parents.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:10:59</time>
<p>So she marries a gentleman who was on a Navy ship.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:06</time>
<p>He was a ship steward.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:07</time>
<p>Yep.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:07</time>
<p>And, uh, They get a license for the boarding house, and together</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:14</time>
<p>they operate the boarding house.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:15</time>
<p>Uh, right off the, we, we have a, a map of it.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:20</time>
<p>It was on Niveen Street, which is today.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:23</time>
<p>You see the, uh, gold star if you're looking at, if you're watching this live.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:26</time>
<p>If not, if you're listening to this live on the podcast, it's where the modern</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:30</time>
<p>day Sheridan, Norfolk Waterside Hotel is.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:32</time>
<p>It</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:33</time>
<p>is, it is.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:34</time>
<p>On the waterfront, right.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:35</time>
<p>You'll see in our video, we're walking right in front of the Sheraton That's</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:39</time>
<p>right on the waterfront right there.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:40</time>
<p>And we literally turn around and, and the Elizabeth River is</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:44</time>
<p>right there.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:44</time>
<p>Yes.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:44</time>
<p>So they basically can see them building the ironclad.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:48</time>
<p>So not only is the boarding house, like they're watching</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:51</time>
<p>them build the ironclad, but.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:53</time>
<p>Mary's husband, Michael Lou Vestry, who we talk about their marriage</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:56</time>
<p>in 1844, and we talk about the church that they're married in.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:11:59</time>
<p>We talk about that for two reasons.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:00</time>
<p>One, there is primary source document that supports their marriage.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:05</time>
<p>Yep.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:05</time>
<p>Which is a great fine for her historian.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:08</time>
<p>So we wanna, you know, recognize that because there's, there's the marriage</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:11</time>
<p>records in the church.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:12</time>
<p>Yes.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:12</time>
<p>But for a person of color to get married in 1840, um, they're</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:17</time>
<p>actually married in 1844.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:21</time>
<p>, that's also rare because people don't, at the time, don't wanna recognize</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:26</time>
<p>that people of color can do that.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:29</time>
<p>Right.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:29</time>
<p>Can do that kind of status of marriage.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:32</time>
<p>And at some points people still use her maiden name cuz they don't wanna</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:36</time>
<p>give her the status of a married</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:37</time>
<p>woman.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:38</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:38</time>
<p>Her maiden name is Ogilvie Ogilvie.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:40</time>
<p>Right.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:40</time>
<p>But, uh, Lu Vestry, uh, is her Mary name.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:44</time>
<p>So Michael Lure, who owns the boarding house with Mary,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:48</time>
<p>actually works at the shipyard.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:50</time>
<p>And he works in the STEAM department.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:53</time>
<p>He's a tool.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:54</time>
<p>Uh, the steam engineering department, he's a, actually takes care of the tools.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:57</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:57</time>
<p>Tool maintainer.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:58</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:58</time>
<p>Tool keeper.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:12:59</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:00</time>
<p>And he works with another union, sympathizer.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:03</time>
<p>William Lyons.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:04</time>
<p>Mm-hmm.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:05</time>
<p>. And we actually go to William Lyons's grave.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:08</time>
<p>So they're working together in the steam department of the css,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:12</time>
<p>Virginia, uh, ship building.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:15</time>
<p>And they're coming back over to the boarding.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:18</time>
<p>With other ship builders and people who are building and they're discussing</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:23</time>
<p>changes or plans or technology updates, and they're pulling out blueprints</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:29</time>
<p>and they're pulling out plans.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:31</time>
<p>And Mary Louvestre is a part of all of this.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:35</time>
<p>She's part of watching this.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:36</time>
<p>She's part of gathering the information and.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:41</time>
<p>It's between them that they decide that she is the safest person to</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:46</time>
<p>bring this information to the union.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:48</time>
<p>Yeah,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:49</time>
<p>and it, I, it's interesting to me, and I don't know if there'd be any documentation</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:52</time>
<p>that would kind of speak to whether or not they, like, before this started</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:13:56</time>
<p>happening, they already kind of knew like, Hey, we're on the side of the union, or</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:00</time>
<p>they were just kind of like there living.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:03</time>
<p>And then this opportunity arose and.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:06</time>
<p>They had that conversation amongst themselves and said,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:09</time>
<p>Hey, we should probably get this to the side that we believe in.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:12</time>
<p>Mm-hmm.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:12</time>
<p>, which ultimately something like that happened because they ended up doing it.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:17</time>
<p>Yes.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:20</time>
<p>Like I said, April 21st, April 20th, it's burned.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:23</time>
<p>April 21st.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:24</time>
<p>Uh, the shipyard's taken over by the Confederacy 1861.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:27</time>
<p>It.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:27</time>
<p>Very long.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:28</time>
<p>It's summer of 1861 where Mary Louvestre goes to Fort Monroe for</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:34</time>
<p>the first time and meets General Wool and says, I'm privy to information.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:40</time>
<p>I'm privy to.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:42</time>
<p>Shipbuilders of the, of an ironclad.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:45</time>
<p>And, but I want people to understand this is new technology for ship building.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:50</time>
<p>No one's done this really iron on the side of a ship and it's not gonna sink.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:54</time>
<p>Like it's, it's unheard of.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:14:57</time>
<p>And so this is, this is important intel.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:02</time>
<p>I can't even distress like it is when people think of the</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:05</time>
<p>civil war and ship technology.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:07</time>
<p>It's the battle of the Ironclads that changes</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:09</time>
<p>the world.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:10</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:10</time>
<p>And, and we talk about that in our ironclad video.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:12</time>
<p>Like th this was kind of a, a seminal moment for the globe,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:16</time>
<p>for the globe, for everybody.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:18</time>
<p>Ship building changes in that moment.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:19</time>
<p>Right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:19</time>
<p>And so this, this espionage, this secret that she has is</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:24</time>
<p>like top tier secret, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:26</time>
<p>And so she goes to general rule in the summer and tells</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:29</time>
<p>him I have this information.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:31</time>
<p>So by December he gives her a.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:34</time>
<p>And he gives her a pass to travel.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:36</time>
<p>So if you can imagine in the Civil War, Virginia is Confederate state.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:42</time>
<p>Fort Monroe is a union fort and he's giving her a pass</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:46</time>
<p>to travel through the state.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:49</time>
<p>And so they did this during the Civil War because it's</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:52</time>
<p>America, it's still operating.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:53</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:53</time>
<p>And so people</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:54</time>
<p>still need to live and trade still kind of happened a little bit.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:58</time>
<p>It's</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:15:58</time>
<p>called a flag of truths.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:00</time>
<p>Yep.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:00</time>
<p>And people could use it to travel to see family.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:04</time>
<p>Uh, cuz you know, brother versus brother and really the most</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:07</time>
<p>unassuming person that people don't think are doing anything is women.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:12</time>
<p>And mostly colored women.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:14</time>
<p>So she is the perfect person</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:17</time>
<p>for Espina.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:18</time>
<p>And, and this is, this is another place where you kind of point out the accurate</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:22</time>
<p>details where as I was searching online and we encourage folks listening and</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:26</time>
<p>those, watching the live stream, you know, you have to be careful about when</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:29</time>
<p>you search up online because the first couple hits in Google when you, when</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:32</time>
<p>you look up, her name is old kind of.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:35</time>
<p>Blogs or, or posts or something like that.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:38</time>
<p>And they're incorrect when they say like she was given a pass</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:41</time>
<p>to go visit her old master.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:43</time>
<p>She never had an old master.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:45</time>
<p>So that's not accurate.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:46</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:46</time>
<p>So you have to be careful when you're doing this kind of research and that's</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:49</time>
<p>one of the things that I think that you bring to the channel and that you</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:52</time>
<p>bring to this podcast is a historian who does thorough research and that,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:16:57</time>
<p>and that's important because, um, some of the stuff that you dug a</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:00</time>
<p>little bit, and obviously you weren't looking at the primary source document.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:03</time>
<p>Yourself, but you found the, the articles about, about other</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:08</time>
<p>historians who found those</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:09</time>
<p>documents and there and, uh, general Wolf's paper still exists at Fort Monroe.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:13</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:13</time>
<p>And that tra travel, that flag of Truce Travel Pass still exists.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:18</time>
<p>Oh, I didn't know that.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:18</time>
<p>And his reason for her traveling.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:21</time>
<p>Is colored woman.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:22</time>
<p>Right.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:22</time>
<p>So he doesn't even have a reason.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:24</time>
<p>. Right.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:25</time>
<p>Really like, I don't know if he even expects someone to look at it.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:28</time>
<p>, they, they</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:28</time>
<p>probably don't.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:29</time>
<p>And, and then, and you bring that up on the video, she's the perfect spy.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:31</time>
<p>Unassuming, no one's gonna like, really,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:33</time>
<p>what's this lady doing?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:34</time>
<p>And you know, and one of the things that clicked for me, and I don't</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:37</time>
<p>even think it had clicked for you, but in, when I was looking at the</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:41</time>
<p>timeline, she was 50 when she did this.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:44</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:44</time>
<p>Cuz she's born in 1912.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:46</time>
<p>So she's like 49.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:47</time>
<p>Yeah, she's, so, she's, I mean, 18,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:48</time>
<p>12.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:48</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:49</time>
<p>1812.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:49</time>
<p>So yeah, she's, she's 49.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:51</time>
<p>About to turn 50,000.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:52</time>
<p>50.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:52</time>
<p>I mean, that's, that's pretty wild, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:54</time>
<p>So here's, here's a woman who's, you know, black at the time, even though she's</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:17:59</time>
<p>free, also being a woman, also being a bit older, obviously nobody's gonna be like,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:04</time>
<p>oh yeah, there's a union spy over there.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:06</time>
<p>That's not</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:06</time>
<p>what they're thinking.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:07</time>
<p>They're not, but they're thinking.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:08</time>
<p>There is the chance, if she is captured, what do you think</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:13</time>
<p>the future holds for her?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:14</time>
<p>She would be immediately enslaved.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:16</time>
<p>That's a great point.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:17</time>
<p>By the south, like if she is caught and found to be a union spy,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:21</time>
<p>which I don't even know if they would give her that agency, but</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:25</time>
<p>they would just, they would just.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:27</time>
<p>Make her enslave her.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:29</time>
<p>And so she's risking her freedom doing this.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:31</time>
<p>She's risking her life doing this.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:33</time>
<p>So in December, she gets the, the pass from General Wool at Fort Monroe, and</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:40</time>
<p>she actually makes the trip February of 1862, so about two months later.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:46</time>
<p>Wintertime, usually a lot of battles aren't going on in the wintertime.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:51</time>
<p>People are traveling.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:51</time>
<p>It's not crops in the field, and so she makes it up to Washington DC So</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:18:56</time>
<p>we show Norfolk to DC is 70 hours for her to travel by foot by boat.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:03</time>
<p>By wagon.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:05</time>
<p>70 hours, she gets up to Washington, DC and she only will speak to the Secretary</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:11</time>
<p>of the Navy, Gideon Wells, nobody else.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:15</time>
<p>So imagine woman of color walking into Gideon Wells' office and all the people</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:22</time>
<p>between him and her secretaries, chief of.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:28</time>
<p>You know, people are like, oh, just give it to me.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:30</time>
<p>Just give it to me.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:31</time>
<p>No, she refuses.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:32</time>
<p>A woman of color refuses every white.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:36</time>
<p>And says, no, I'm gonna speak directly to Secretary of</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:39</time>
<p>the Navy.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:40</time>
<p>It's not like she just kind of walked in with nothing.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:42</time>
<p>She did have the, the pass from the general, from the general</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:45</time>
<p>rule, but that's all she had.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:46</time>
<p>That's all she has.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:46</time>
<p>She's not showing anything else.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:47</time>
<p>And, and back then, most would expect her to be like, oh yeah, here's</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:51</time>
<p>the secret thing that I'm carrying.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:52</time>
<p>Please deliver it to the Secretary of the Navy.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:54</time>
<p>And she said, absolutely not.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:56</time>
<p>Absolutely not.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:56</time>
<p>I need to speak to him.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:57</time>
<p>Right.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:19:57</time>
<p>She's not even telling him what she has, just that she</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:00</time>
<p>needs to speak to him directly.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:01</time>
<p>And because no one knows what she has.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:05</time>
<p>She gets right in front of him and when she gets in front of him from her dress.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:10</time>
<p>From her dress, like all the petty coats, she pulls out the</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:13</time>
<p>blueprints of the CSS, Virginia.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:16</time>
<p>So it's, it's that moment that she has everything.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:20</time>
<p>This is what they're building, this is what it looks like.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:23</time>
<p>This is the technology that you're using.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:24</time>
<p>Any updates they're making, she has all of it.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:27</time>
<p>She leaves such an impression on wells, and we talk about this, that</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:30</time>
<p>when he comes back to Norfolk in 1868, after the war, he inquires about her.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:36</time>
<p>Where's that woman that came to see me?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:38</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:39</time>
<p>I think he wrote a letter to like a, a local military official Yes.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:44</time>
<p>In the Norfolk area.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:44</time>
<p>To check on her.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:45</time>
<p>To</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:45</time>
<p>check</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:45</time>
<p>on her.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:46</time>
<p>He wanted, he wanted to find</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:47</time>
<p>her, couldn't find her.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:47</time>
<p>And the, and the local official, like to kind of tracked her down,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:50</time>
<p>he'd like, Hey, I found her.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:51</time>
<p>So he, so there's, there's correspondence.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:52</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:52</time>
<p>Spread again, those, those letters.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:54</time>
<p>That's the library of Congress.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:54</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:55</time>
<p>Those letters exist as well.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:56</time>
<p>And so they're like, oh, hey, I found her.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:20:58</time>
<p>And so I think he, she's still at the boarding house, right.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:00</time>
<p>So I think he, didn't he come to visit?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:01</time>
<p>Did he come to visit her?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:02</time>
<p>Is that right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:03</time>
<p>He, he came down</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:03</time>
<p>to Norfolk and tried to find her and couldn't.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:05</time>
<p>Okay.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:05</time>
<p>And that's when.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:06</time>
<p>The letter.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:07</time>
<p>Can someone find her?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:08</time>
<p>Mm-hmm.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:08</time>
<p>, and then they find her and let him know that she's okay.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:11</time>
<p>But this is 1862.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:13</time>
<p>This is February of 1862.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:16</time>
<p>The Battle of the Ironclads is going to happen, uh, March 8th and ninth of 1862.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:22</time>
<p>So really it's like a month later.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:26</time>
<p>So, yeah, so they take these plans, they're like, Hey, go</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:28</time>
<p>. Can you show the, show the</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:30</time>
<p>So if you're watching, um, this live and I'll talk about it.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:35</time>
<p>The Virginia is, you can see how it's built above the water line.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:39</time>
<p>It's kind of, looks like they have stacked metal leaned in against each agenda.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:43</time>
<p>It's almost like a tent feature and they have candidates coming out</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:46</time>
<p>of the monitor is quite different.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:48</time>
<p>The monitor real, the metal doesn't really.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:50</time>
<p>Go above the water line, except for one kind of round, I think</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:53</time>
<p>it's almost like a turt, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:55</time>
<p>That's up there with a, a gun that goes 360.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:21:58</time>
<p>So it makes the monitor, in my opinion, harder to hit because it's so flat and</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:03</time>
<p>the Virginia is a little bit easier.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:04</time>
<p>It's more of a target since it's out of the water.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:07</time>
<p>But this is what the two ironclads look like.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:10</time>
<p>And if you know anything about the Battle of the Ironclads, the, the css,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:16</time>
<p>Attacks first, and it's attacking union ships that are wooden and they are just</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:22</time>
<p>foundering and one of them kind of runs</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:23</time>
<p>the ground.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:24</time>
<p>. Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:24</time>
<p>It's basically save itself.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:25</time>
<p>It basically just kind of rolls through and like mows 'em all down.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:28</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:29</time>
<p>And run runs the ground to save itself.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:31</time>
<p>And this Virginia goes back to Fort Norfolk for the night and that</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:37</time>
<p>ship stays, it's, it's burning and it stays lit, but they're able.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:42</time>
<p>Uh, word up to DC that they have released their ironclad.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:46</time>
<p>And so the monitor comes down the coast and that's why they say the</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:49</time>
<p>battle is March 8th and ninth.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:51</time>
<p>The monitor makes it down that night and it sees the fire of</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:55</time>
<p>that ship that has run a ground.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:57</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:22:57</time>
<p>And the Virginia is coming back to kind of end that ship.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:01</time>
<p>It took them, you know, went back for the night rested.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:04</time>
<p>It's coming back in the morning to kind of end the people and that ship.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:08</time>
<p>Obliterate that ship and it, that's when it meets the</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:10</time>
<p>monitor.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:11</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:11</time>
<p>And, and if you ever, uh, we show it briefly on this video mm-hmm.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:15</time>
<p>. And if you go back and watch our Battle of the Iron Clouds video, we show it a lot in</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:18</time>
<p>a little bit longer, a little more detail.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:20</time>
<p>Like, I mean, these, these ships are circling around each other</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:22</time>
<p>for hours and hours and hours.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:24</time>
<p>It's like you keep trying to shoot each other and cannonballs are bouncing</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:26</time>
<p>off and they're not doing anything, and they're like, this is brand new.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:29</time>
<p>We don't know how to do this.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:30</time>
<p>So it's, it's kind of like a stalemate, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:33</time>
<p>I think it's like for three hours they chase each.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:35</time>
<p>Back and forth and all around.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:36</time>
<p>And both of 'em are firing.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:38</time>
<p>Both of, uh, their, you know, artillery is, is bouncing off of the metal.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:42</time>
<p>And we say that this is such a, a world experience because</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:47</time>
<p>people are watching this battle.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:48</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:49</time>
<p>And it just, the word just travels this, these ships are invincible.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:54</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:54</time>
<p>And so ship building, this is when I used can in the picture, you'll,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:23:58</time>
<p>you see an old wooden ship in the background cuz it really is.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:01</time>
<p>That's it.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:03</time>
<p>, they don't make wooden ships anymore.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:04</time>
<p>It's done.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:05</time>
<p>Now all ships are gonna be metal from here on out.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:08</time>
<p>Uh, as and today, military ships are all metal as today.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:11</time>
<p>So that, this is the moment that does that without those plans from</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:16</time>
<p>Mary Louvestre, and of course William Lyons and of course Michael Louvestre,</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:20</time>
<p>who risked their lives to get them.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:22</time>
<p>The union would not have been prepared for that.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:25</time>
<p>It would not have known what they were doing or what they were making.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:27</time>
<p>And so it was just, it's so paramount in that moment that it, it really</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:33</time>
<p>was a, a secret that really saved the union and in that regard, and in</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:39</time>
<p>that battle.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:39</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:39</time>
<p>It was really just such an incredible story and it, it was.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:42</time>
<p>It's a fun one to make because that's, that's a, that's an exciting story, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:47</time>
<p>That's, that's a successful, exciting story.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:49</time>
<p>And again, from, from a production standpoint, which is what I like</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:53</time>
<p>to talk about, because I don't know the history, but from a production</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:56</time>
<p>standpoint, it's fun to make, right?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:24:58</time>
<p>You kind of get to pick the music and kind of set the mood and kind</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:00</time>
<p>of increase the, the intensity.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:02</time>
<p>And then at the end you show the, the pictures, you know, that we've all seen</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:05</time>
<p>in, in history books and stuff like that of the Battle of the Ironclads, and yes.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:09</time>
<p>The reason there was a battle of the Ironclads is because of</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:12</time>
<p>what she did.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:12</time>
<p>Because of what she did.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:13</time>
<p>And it's a woman.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:15</time>
<p>It's a woman who, who did this.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:17</time>
<p>And not only just a woman, but a woman of color that did this.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:20</time>
<p>And I think.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:22</time>
<p>For anybody to kind of, uh, foil the Confederacy.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:26</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:26</time>
<p>Not only a, a woman but a person of color to do it.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:30</time>
<p>It just makes me very proud.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:32</time>
<p>And we always talk about, um, peop you know, history people, what's happening to.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:38</time>
<p>, everyone in time when a war is happening and the Civil War.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:42</time>
<p>We do talk about the battles and we do go to the battlefield, but we want to remind</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:46</time>
<p>you it's not just impacting soldiers, it's impacting families, it's impacting</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:52</time>
<p>children, it's impacting women, and every American is gonna be touched by the</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:25:57</time>
<p>Civil War since it is a war of America.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:00</time>
<p>For a woman to do this, For me, I, I just admired her so much.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:04</time>
<p>I wanted more of the truth of her story to come out.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:08</time>
<p>And it's being researched slowly.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:10</time>
<p>Uh, and like I said, there's more primary sources that are being</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:13</time>
<p>uncovered, but I think she needs to get credit for what she has done.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:18</time>
<p>And, uh, and we, we were just really proud to bring her</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:20</time>
<p>story.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:21</time>
<p>Yeah, it again, it was, it was super fun.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:23</time>
<p>If you haven't watched the video, go, go check out the video.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:26</time>
<p>Um, if you're listening to the podcast, I will absolutely link to</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:29</time>
<p>that video in this podcast notes.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:32</time>
<p>So bravery comes in all forms, but in 1862, during the.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:37</time>
<p>Thick of the Civil War.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:38</time>
<p>Mary Louvestre displayed the most classic version of bravery, the kind that stories</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:43</time>
<p>are told of throughout history, taking on a secret spy mission for something</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:48</time>
<p>that she believed in a cause that was bigger than herself and more important</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:52</time>
<p>than her livelihood as a free black woman living in Virginia, if she hadn't made it</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:56</time>
<p>to the Secretary of Navy, Gideon Wells.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:26:58</time>
<p>Would the union have ever ma made the u s s monitor?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:02</time>
<p>Could they have defeated the Confederate?</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:03</time>
<p>See without this revolutionary steel ship building is this one act, the one</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:08</time>
<p>that turned the tide of the Civil War.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:12</time>
<p>Luckily, we have Mary Louvestre's actions to thank for accomplishing</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:16</time>
<p>that vital mission for the union and possibly for the board itself.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:20</time>
<p>Now if you enjoyed this podcast, you may like our past episode that we</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:23</time>
<p>talked about on Battle of the Ironclads and our upcoming episode about the</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:28</time>
<p>Confederate Spy Rose Greenhouse, whose work was credited for the South's</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:33</time>
<p>success at the first Battle of Bull Run.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:36</time>
<p>So thank you for listening to the Talk with History podcast.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:38</time>
<p>If you know someone else that might enjoy this podcast, please share it with them.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:42</time>
<p>We rely on you, our community to grow, and we appreciate you all every.</p>
<p></p>
<cite>Speaker:</cite>
<time>00:27:46</time>
<p>We'll talk to you next time.</p>
<p></p>
<p></p>